Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[mysterious]

With the video coverage I've seen from documentary made by Al-Jazeera [English]; it is quite apparent that underground bunkers and cave hideouts used by Taliban fighters are well prepared and deeply embedded within the ground.

Even the housing compounds used as 'safe houses' tend to have 10-15inch thick mud-walls such as in Bajaur. What bunker-buster and penetrating ammunition is the Pakistan Airforce using against such targets?

 

[SABRE]

Just changing gears............. is anything named jxx going to exist in the near future? if the answer is yes then why not we cooperate with china in this............i mean then we would be just wasting our money on j10's.Our cooperation can follow the footsteps of indians as in case of their joint venture on pak fa stealth with Russia.IF we can't do this because of scarcity of resources then why just sticking to j10, Gripen or rafale would be a better choice???????

J-XX or J-13 or J-14 is just a concept right now, while PAF requirements at this moment are somewhat immediate. If you want more on this perhaps Tphaung can answer you better.

 

[good_old_viper]

yep, that sounds about right to me. Especially if they are serious about getting the aircraft by 2010. As it turned out, Zardari's visit didn't yield any formal signings on this.

There is no J10 coming by 2010.

The J10 (to be known as FC-20) would be coming sometime around 2013/14 unless something goes wrong with F-16 MLU and new Blk 52 in which case current J-10 would serve as a "back-up plan".

PAF is not happy with the current J-10, particularly the avionics- radar, navigation system and weapons. PAF want(ed) western avionics but China thinks it can supply PAF requirements in a couple of years. The final decision would be made once JF-17's equipment for the next batch is selected and following weapons trial of what China is willing to offer with the FC-20. This should happen somewhere around 2010.

I think the number of JF17 has increased to 16. I haven't had a time to confirm it though.

PAF is using F-16s against Taliban. I don't think JF-17 has seen any combat yet.

Its currently 8 with PAF. Another 2 "might" be with PAC but I am not sure.

any news about developmemt of jf17 block2 model and when we will get j10b?

If you are talking about batch II ( or aircraft 50-100), then its just the avionics that will change. PAF currently has both Italian and French systems undergoing tests. A final decision would be announced once these are completed, roughly by the end of this year of early next year.

PAC has not even properly established itself on JF-17 while CAC is busy with J-10B, how do you expect them to work on JF-17 so early?

We will probably be getting FC-20 by 2014 (at the late). I can't say if its J-10B or the current version however.

That is true. PAC is currently trying to settle down with all the JF-17 absorption and get into the normal routine production mode gradually increasing its capacity and share in production.

While CAC is working mainly on "other programs", but that doesnt mean a side team is not working on the JF-17. We have heard much about a ground attack variant and a twin-seater. I think development is moving in that direction and from what I have heard PLAAF is also showing some interest in that.

 

[Aussie Digger]

With the video coverage I've seen from documentary made by Al-Jazeera [English]; it is quite apparent that underground bunkers and cave hideouts used by Taliban fighters are well prepared and deeply embedded within the ground.

Even the housing compounds used as 'safe houses' tend to have 10-15inch thick mud-walls such as in Bajaur. What bunker-buster and penetrating ammunition is the Pakistan Airforce using against such targets?

PAF requested 700x BLU-109 2000lbs bunker buster warheads through FMS back in 2007 for it's F-16 aircraft along with GP Mk 82/84 air to ground bombs, which possess a penetrating capability depending on the fuzing.

Pakistan maintains Maverick and TOW missiles within it's inventory, plus their Army maintains anti-armour, artillery and no doubt various engineering capabilities which are very good at upsetting those employed in defensive positions...

 

[tphuang]

There is no J10 coming by 2010.

The J10 (to be known as FC-20) would be coming sometime around 2013/14 unless something goes wrong with F-16 MLU and new Blk 52 in which case current J-10 would serve as a "back-up plan".

PAF is not happy with the current J-10, particularly the avionics- radar, navigation system and weapons. PAF want(ed) western avionics but China thinks it can supply PAF requirements in a couple of years. The final decision would be made once JF-17's equipment for the next batch is selected and following weapons trial of what China is willing to offer with the FC-20. This should happen somewhere around 2010.

you don't get the entire picture and certainly following the typical news item doesn't give it either. The original post was commenting on an hypothesis. This is why you don't butt in on a discussion 3 months later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SABRE View Post
PAC has not even properly established itself on JF-17 while CAC is busy with J-10B, how do you expect them to work on JF-17 so early?

We will probably be getting FC-20 by 2014 (at the late). I can't say if its J-10B or the current version however.
Just changing gears............. is anything named jxx going to exist in the near future? if the answer is yes then why not we cooperate with china in this............i mean then we would be just wasting our money on j10's.Our cooperation can follow the footsteps of indians as in case of their joint venture on pak fa stealth with Russia.IF we can't do this because of scarcity of resources then why just sticking to j10, Gripen or rafale would be a better choice???????

because China won't offer J-XX anytime soon. j-10b is probably the best aircraft that China will export in the near future. the other thing is that China probably wouldn't be able to export J-10 to Pakistan until it's comfortable with WS-10A on J-10. there is a lot of things to consider

 

[mysterious]

As has become common knowledge by now, Turkish Aerospace Industries [TAI] have been selected by Pakistan Air Force to upgrade its aging fleet of 42 F-16s. Upgrades are due to commence beginning October 2010 and last 46months.

It makes one wonder if the project is getting off the ground a bit too late [considering there's still more than a year remaining till the first aircraft even enters the upgrading process]. It is also worrisome to note the length of time it would take to upgrade all 42 aircraft: 46months! That would mean mid-2014 when the final upgraded F-16 is rolled out.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit too slow of a rate?

 

[WAR]

As has become common knowledge by now, Turkish Aerospace Industries [TAI] have been selected by Pakistan Air Force to upgrade its aging fleet of 42 F-16s. Upgrades are due to commence beginning October 2010 and last 46months.

It makes one wonder if the project is getting off the ground a bit too late [considering there's still more than a year remaining till the first aircraft even enters the upgrading process]. It is also worrisome to note the length of time it would take to upgrade all 42 aircraft: 46months! That would mean mid-2014 when the final upgraded F-16 is rolled out.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit too slow of a rate?

Quite right.
I duly share your views and concern at the slow rate.
I suppose there must be some reason/ issue behind this.

 

[SURB]

bad news for PAF; india is increasing it's arsenal of su30's.
The new purchase will increase the present number of su30's from 100 to 238.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

bad news for PAF; india is increasing it's arsenal of su30's.
The new purchase will increase the present number of su30's from 100 to 238.

Pakistan can always increase the number of F-20S.

Destroy all the airfields (already marked) within the 100-300 km radius thanks to the Chinese SAT recieving station and let the F-20s, F-16s (If delivered) and JF-17s take care of the half fueled approaching IAF planes already picked up by the PAF radars..

 

[SABRE]

bad news for PAF; india is increasing it's arsenal of su30's.
The new purchase will increase the present number of su30's from 100 to 238.

And what is new about it ? IAF was to purchase 200+ Su-30MKI as per the plan (of which PAF has been well aware) and not as per a sudden impulse.

India purchasing more Su-30MKI is India's own domestic policy and Pakistan should not intervene (although it fuels arms race) and India should do the vice versa.

 

[kay_man]

And what is new about it ? IAF was to purchase 200+ Su-30MKI as per the plan (of which PAF has been well aware) and not as per a sudden impulse.

India purchasing more Su-30MKI is India's own domestic policy and Pakistan should not intervene (although it fuels arms race) and India should do the vice versa.

i hardly believe it should offend / upset the PAF coz the IAF fighter strength is way below even the minimum no. of squadrons.
also most su-30 squadrons are deployed in central and eastern India.

 

[OPSSG]

Pakistan can always increase the number of F-20S.

I presume that the 'F-20S' mentioned in your post is a typo and it should be 'FC-20'.

Yes, that is an option for Pakistan, you can ask China for more JF-17s (aka FC-1) and J-10s (aka FC-20) without the current need to worry about paying for them. The Pakistan military has a grand big power scheme going - getting both US and China (as competitors in geopolitical terms) to give money and arms to a country with a Standard & Poor's credit rating of CCC (please correct me if I'm wrong on your country's credit rating).

Destroy all the airfields (already marked) within the 100-300 km radius thanks to the Chinese SAT recieving station and let the F-20s, F-16s (If delivered) and JF-17s take care of the half fueled approaching IAF planes already picked up by the PAF radars..

Can you please consider adopting a less confrontational and adversarial approach (with regards to Indians on this forum)? There is nothing certain in war and no responsible person should advocate that these 2 nuclear armed states (of India and Pakistan) should go to war.

BTW, do you know that according to some academic research, overconfidence may be a disadvantage in war? According to Dominic Johnson of Princeton University, players who made higher-than-average predictions of their performance - those who had higher confidence - were more likely to carry out unprovoked attacks. A further analysis showed that people with higher self-rankings ended up worse off at the end of the game.

Most unbiased observers would agree that there is no guarantee that the Pakistani air force will be able to destroy the IAF on their airfields or that an IAF retaliatory strike to a unprovoked attack by Pakistan will be unsuccessful - so it is hard to take you seriously if you continue to make such remarks. Like I said earlier, there is nothing certain in war.

 

[SURB]

Pakistan can always increase the number of F-20S.

Destroy all the airfields (already marked) within the 100-300 km radius thanks to the Chinese SAT recieving station and let the F-20s, F-16s (If delivered) and JF-17s take care of the half fueled approaching IAF planes already picked up by the PAF radars..

that's encouraging ........i love this approach.....as far as theory is concerned.

 

[SURB]

And what is new about it ? IAF was to purchase 200+ Su-30MKI as per the plan (of which PAF has been well aware) and not as per a sudden impulse.

India purchasing more Su-30MKI is India's own domestic policy and Pakistan should not intervene (although it fuels arms race) and India should do the vice versa.

yes i will also not like Pakistan to intervene.But man i am worried about PAF standings.Our current regional situation demands a quick modernization of PAF fleet.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Can you please consider adopting a less confrontational and adversarial approach (with regards to Indians on this forum)? There is nothing certain in war and no responsible person should advocate that these 2 nuclear armed states (of India and Pakistan) should go to war.

Most unbiased observers would agree that there is no guarantee that the Pakistani air force will be able to destroy the IAF on their airfields or that an IAF retaliatory strike to a unprovoked attack by Pakistan will be unsuccessful - so it is hard to take you seriously if you continue to make such remarks. Like I said earlier, there is nothing certain in war.

I dont know where did you get the idea of me advocating for Pakistan and India going to war. As far as I was concerned and I read it again, I had defensive strategy in mind. Did you miss reading "half fueled approaching Indian planes" ?

There is definitely nothing certain in war. but it is logical to pre empt the certain and brave for the uncertain.

It is common sense that both Indian and Pakistani air forces have surprises up their sleeves for the other.

and I assure you that every Indian mile to atleast 300 km radius is already and fully mapped by Pakistan !

Dont forget what Kiyani said to Mullen after showing the picture of (locked-on by the PAF jet) Indian airforce plane deliberately violating Pakistani air space : Next time, we'll bring it down.

Anyways, as Sabre said. There is nothing new. Induction of more SU-30 MKI was planned and PAF is fully aware of this and have taken all neccessary measures to take care of them.

 

[OPSSG]

BTW, could you guys try to get the plane model numbers correct in your posts to avoid confusion. The F-20 usually refers to the Tigershark, a US designed plane that never entered production. OTOH, the FC-20 is the export nomenclature for China's J-10.

Aliph Ahmed, I see your point of view and do not wish to comment further on your abundance of nationalistic spirit (which marriage has not toned down ). There is nothing wrong with any country taking defence seriously and being prepared.

Destroy all the airfields (already marked) within the 100-300 km radius thanks to the Chinese SAT recieving station and let the F-20s, F-16s (If delivered) and JF-17s take care of the half fueled approaching IAF planes already picked up by the PAF radars...

that's encouraging ........i love this approach.....as far as theory is concerned.

IMO, Aliph Ahmed and you don't have a theory - more of a wish. But I've got to respect your fan-boy enthusiasm and rhetoric. And I've learnt through experience that I don't want to start an air warfare theory discussion with a person using rhetoric as his primary communications tool.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Aliph Ahmed, I see your point of view and do not wish to comment further on your abundance of nationalistic spirit (which marriage has not toned down ). There is nothing wrong with taking defence seriously and being prepared.

nfloorl:

Why do you think I have started exploring defensive ideas.

My wife is an Indian who has converted to Islam. A great person. Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians think very differently then the politicians.

It is just that I feel, Pakistan should keep a minimum deterrance vis a vis India militarily untill the disputes are solved through negotiations and diplomatic means.

 

[OPSSG]

I've heard rumours that the Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc (TAI) upgrades include:

(i) a structural life-extension programme;
(ii) the installation of US-origin defensive aids suites, including the ALG-178V(5) RWR; and
(iii) the installation of US-origin communications suites.

If the TAI upgrades include a structural life-extension programme then the 46 month time frame is to be expected. Do you or anyone else have any other details? Please correct me if I've got any of the above facts wrong.

BTW, DOES the upgrade also include a new APG-68(V)9 radar for the 42 F-16A/Bs? Or has that upgrade option been removed for cost reasons.

My wife is an Indian who has converted to Islam. A great person. Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians think very differently then the politicians.

My best wishes to you as a newly wed. May the both of you live long and prosper .

It is just that I feel, Pakistan should keep a minimum deterrence vis a vis India militarily until the disputes are solved through negotiations and diplomatic means.

Agreed.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

I've heard rumours that the Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc (TAI) upgrades include:

(i) a structural life-extension programme;
(ii) the installation of US-origin defensive aids suites, including the ALG-178V(5) RWR; and
(iii) the installation of US-origin communications suites.

If the TAI upgrades include a structural life-extension programme then the 46 month time frame is to be expected. Do you or anyone else have any other details? Please correct me if I've got any of the above facts wrong.

BTW, DOES the upgrade also include a new APG-68(V)9 radar for the 42 F-16A/Bs? Or has that upgrade option been removed for cost reasons.

My best wishes to you as a newly wed. May the both of you live long and prosper .

.

The exact details of the Pakistani F16 MLU are still grey. As Pakistani MLUs are very different from other countries' MLUs. However, I can confirm you for the 54 AN/APG-68 (V)9 Radar Systems.

The Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH issued the contract (FA8615-07-C-6033) in 2007 for the procurement of 54 AN/APG-68 (V)9 Radar Systems under the firm-fixed-price portion of the contract. At that time, $49.75 million worth of transaction was made with work to be completed by 2010.

I will get back to you on the rest at the earliest. Someone is awake.

Thank you for the wishes.

 

[rahulhunk]

Have a look on these proofs Mr. ahmed then talk....

Dont forget what Kiyani said to Mullen after showing the picture of (locked-on by the PAF jet) Indian airforce plane deliberately violating Pakistani air space : Next time, we'll bring it down

Mr. Aliph ahmed i want to make one thing very clear that power of any Air force lies on the talent of their pilots trained....
and it was the Indian air force pilots which were able to lock Pakistani f-16s at the time of kargil war while indian pilots flying mirage 2000 and Mig -29 as respecting the order they didnt fired missiles as it may lead to a full fledged war.
In cope India 2004,U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF!(su-30 mki).And you pakistani very well know f-15 is more superior than f-16 in multi-role capability.
Please have a look on the report on this link generated officially by american officials and newspapers.
Are Indian Fighter Pilots better than US Fighter Pilots?
Also at the time of Kargil war,The Indian Navy also readied itself for an attempted blockade of Pakistani ports (primarily Karachi port) to cut off supply routes. Later, the then-Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif disclosed that Pakistan was left with just six days of fuel to sustain itself if a full-fledged war had broken out. world knows what happened after that And one thing is very clear Mr. ahmed pakistan cannot match or even compare itself in terms of war tactics and strategies doesnt matter which ever has better Air power.