Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[Aliph Ahmed]

Mr. Aliph ahmed i want to make one thing very clear that power of any Air force lies on the talent of their pilots trained....
and it was the Indian air force pilots which were able to lock Pakistani f-16s at the time of kargil war while indian pilots flying mirage 2000 and Mig -29 as respecting the order they didnt fired missiles as it may lead to a full fledged war.
In cope India 2004,U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF!(su-30 mki).And you pakistani very well know f-15 is more superior than f-16 in multi-role capability.
Please have a look on the report on this link generated officially by american officials and newspapers.
Are Indian Fighter Pilots better than US Fighter Pilots?
Also at the time of Kargil war,The Indian Navy also readied itself for an attempted blockade of Pakistani ports (primarily Karachi port) to cut off supply routes. Later, the then-Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif disclosed that Pakistan was left with just six days of fuel to sustain itself if a full-fledged war had broken out. world knows what happened after that And one thing is very clear Mr. ahmed pakistan cannot match or even compare itself in terms of war tactics and strategies doesnt matter which ever has better Air power.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—Adm. Mike Mullen asked Pakistan for a guarantee that Pakistan Air Force will not respond to Indian surgical strikes. General Kayani is said to have responded with showing Mullen a photograph of an IAF Mirage-2000 locked by Pakistan Air Forces’ F-16 taken on December 13. ‘Next time, we’ll bring it down’, Mullen was told. To make sure the message was loud and clear, Pakistan Air Force jets started patrolling the skies in hot mode and a red-alert was issued throughout the country. The Indian war rhetoric has failed to impress Pakistan. Instead, the focus is now shifting to Indian intelligence agencies’ failure to put together credible evidence implicating Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks.

and please. nfloorl:

We all know the outcome of excercise was pre fixed in order to secure order of F-22s for USAF !

Lasty, Indian navy was couple of minutes away from blocking and Pakistani navy was couple of minutes away from sinking them to the bottom of sea. :nutkick

Please stick to "Pakistan Airforce topic". Thank you.

 

[rahulhunk]

Okay you may be right but what about this........

That is just an assumption that Pakistan navy could have attacked and sunk Indian forces but it was sure from all sources at that time the Indian navy almost blocked karachi port, but in case if that is true about pakistani naval strikes than how pakistan would have responded the deterence and massive strike of the sole aircraft carrier INS VIRAAT in the Indian ocean only after one of the US navy aircraft carrier docked near diego garciaat that time..............

This was more or less like a situation arised in 1972 war the Indian Navy, under the command of Vice Admiral Kohli, achieved success by attacking Karachi's port in the code-named Operation Trident on the night of 4-5 December, which resulted in the sinking of the Pakistani destroyer PNS Khyber as well as the PNS Shajehan. This resulted in tactical Indian success with Pakistan apart from losing reserve fuel and many commercial ships, thus crippling the Pakistan Navy's further involvment in the conflict.:nutkick

But let us End this never ending Naval skirmishes, coming to the pakistani air force again.............

you may be right about the planned results of that exercise but similar was the results with IAF having dirty air games RAF.

In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise. The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars. During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.

During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".

Now, leaving all these things behind how would pakistani jf-17 will counter su-30 mki as well as future PAKFA.......

From sources it is clear that china has no interest in jf-17 and that is just for export they are also not even planning to induct more of j-10 instead of that they are asking from russia for more of su-30 mkk and su-30 variants as well as su-33(again a su-30 variant) for Navy Can i ask u why???? as they have the j-10 naval variant ability................ why thier navy and air force dont trust thier indigenous ability and technology. The world knows the quality of chinese products and u cant even compare that quality from russian one...........
They are best in Aerodynamics and that technology is transfered to India very easily with little amount of US$ you know they are hungry about dollars and India hold third largest dollar reserves in the world after china and russia.

How your jf-17 or J-10 will prove against that capability providing it is clear that china is not interested in both of the fighters in next decade.

 

[SABRE]

and it was the Indian air force pilots which were able to lock Pakistani f-16s at the time of kargil war while indian pilots flying mirage 2000 and Mig -29 as respecting the order they didnt fired missiles as it may lead to a full fledged war.

No F-16 flew during the Kargil conflict. The PAF was not involved until much later and only F-7s and Mirage-IIIs were involved in the mission. It was PAF F-7 which the IAF is said to have had locked on and it was inability of IAF's aircraft to distinguish between 'Friend or Foe' which resulted in no air-to-air combat. Perhaps the IAF confused F-7 with MiG-21.

I don't know much on this story but (speaking an neutral as possinle for me) you must not underestimate PAF pilots. Those boys have very good combat history and take rigorous training. Only thing draw back they have is they lack in certain technological capabilities at the moment.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

From sources it is clear that china has no interest in jf-17 and that is just for export they are also not even planning to induct more of j-10 instead of that they are asking from russia for more of su-30 mkk and su-30 variants as well as su-33(again a su-30 variant) for Navy Can i ask u why???? as they have the j-10 naval variant ability................ why thier navy and air force dont trust thier indigenous ability and technology. The world knows the quality of chinese products and u cant even compare that quality from russian one.

They are best in Aerodynamics and that technology is transfered to India very easily with little amount of US$ you know they are hungry about dollars and India hold third largest dollar reserves in the world after china and russia.

How your jf-17 or J-10 will prove against that capability providing it is clear that china is not interested in both of the fighters in next decade.

I would love to know who the " sources " are before I reply back to all that grossly ill ilformed and slanderous fantacies you just typed. nfloorl:

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

No F-16 flew during the Kargil conflict. The PAF was not involved until much later and only F-7s and Mirage-IIIs were involved in the mission. It was PAF F-7 which the IAF is said to have had locked on and it was inability of IAF's aircraft to distinguish between 'Friend or Foe' which resulted in no air-to-air combat. Perhaps the IAF confused F-7 with MiG-21.

I don't know much on this story but (speaking an neutral as possinle for me) you must not underestimate PAF pilots. Those boys have very good combat history and take rigorous training. Only thing draw back they have is they lack in certain technological capabilities at the moment.

It is not really a big deal if you are within your own air space.

Last two times the Indian aircarfts violated Pakistan airspace, this is what happenned:

1. Kargil time: Two armed Indian airforce planes were shot down.
2. Post Mumbai : The Armed Mirage was locked but was not shot down as it was less then 4 km inside Pakistani airspace.

and these are facts.

 

[rahulhunk]

ha ha ha

I think you didnt have any clear answers or you may be in deep stress after thinking about su-30 mki and future PAKFA.....

 

[rahulhunk]

also....

In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise. The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars. During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.

During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".

comments from experts..........
just answer this question first Ahmed

 

[OPSSG]

I think you didnt have any clear answers or you may be in deep stress after thinking about su-30 mki and future PAKFA.....

Kindly note that I'm not trying to take sides and as such have not engaged in critiquing your posts.

Nationalistic dick measuring contests does not lead to intelligent forum discussions. As a fellow forum member, I ask that you reconsider your current mode of engagement. Kindly also read the forum rules. IMO, your last few posts are bordering on trolling.

 

[OPSSG]

comments from experts..........
just answer this question first Ahmed

Kindly read the pinned thread on DACT before you proceed down this road. If you don't understand what is DACT after reading it, please ask.

 

[rahulhunk]

I agree OPSSG

My point of view and posts are not here to start to a forum war and i m not any expert on defence i m just a student......and sorry for any misconduct and violations of rules.......

I just want answers from experts like SABRE ji and Ahmed ji.........

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

First of all, this is Pakistani Airforce thread.

Secondly, You need to prove that China is not ordering for FC-1s. Onus to prove is on you as you came up with that false information.

Thirdly, You need to prove that China is not producing more J-10s. Onus to prove is on you as you came up with that false information.

Fourthly, You need to prove that quality of Chinese products is inferior to Russian. Onus to prove is on you as you came up with that false information.

Fifthly, There is NO PAKFA at the moment. When you get them then talk. Keep all that India will have this or that fantacy for Indian forums. Defencetalk forum is a lot better and respected for facts only!

Lastly, Waiting for your prompt reply and specially the sources. you mentioned in post number 2102 :nutkick

 

[OPSSG]

My point of view and posts are not here to start to a forum war and i m not any expert on defence i m just a student......and sorry for any misconduct and violations of rules.......

I just want answers from experts like SABRE ji and Ahmed ji.........

I like this forum as the moderator group here is very knowledgeable and often have specific subject matter expertise. In fact, a number of published defence writers also participate and contribute to this forum.

As with all forums, moderators and senior members set the tone by taking the time to explain a few things to newbees - like you. As a new member, please learn to cite reputable sources to support your point of view. Kindly note that SABRE is moderator here and he is treating you with 'kids gloves' despite your rather insolent tone. Respect others by adopting a civil tone - AND demanding answers from others is not what I would call a civil tone. Learn to ask nicely and take the trouble to read up before posting, so that you can grow to be a valued member in this community.

 

[rahulhunk]

You will definately get them

Mr. ahmed as soon as i will be available with sources i will give it to you as also i m not defence expert like you, i just spend my part time after studies on defence related issues i have read several time anywhere on web about the capability of chinese fighers as that iformation was damn true.

 

[rahulhunk]

you may be right but it was f-16 not f-7...

No F-16 flew during the Kargil conflict. The PAF was not involved until much later and only F-7s and Mirage-IIIs were involved in the mission. It was PAF F-7 which the IAF is said to have had locked on and it was inability of IAF's aircraft to distinguish between 'Friend or Foe' which resulted in no air-to-air combat. Perhaps the IAF confused F-7 with MiG-21.

I don't know much on this story but (speaking an neutral as possinle for me) you must not underestimate PAF pilots. Those boys have very good combat history and take rigorous training. Only thing draw back they have is they lack in certain technological capabilities at the moment.

It was f-16 which was locked by Mirage-2000 as at it is belived that PAF f-16s doesnt have the BVR capability at that time and they were forced to leave the Indian air space. IAF pilots didnt fired missiles to avoid further conflict.

 

[OPSSG]

@Aliph Ahmed and rahulhunk, can the both of you please stop this dick measuring contest, support your future posts with reputable links and please look for facts/links to support your point of view. A future promise of a link (to be found) is not good enough. If you don't have link, then please stop. THANK YOU.

BTW, modern air combat is a systems fight and to some degree a platform vs platform comparison is meaningless. I don't want to explain further if you can't read and understand the links provided by me thus far. Start by reading up on the evolution of the F-16 and the Air Campaign by Col. Warden, which deals with the concept of air superiority. Attaining air superiority is not simple in either concept or execution.

Mr. ahmed as soon as i will be available with sources i will give it to you as also i m not defence expert like you, i just spend my part time after studies on defence related issues

@rahulhunk, please note that you did not even read the ONE link you provided carefully - if you did, you would realize that the blog you cited DOES NOT agree with the conclusion you drew from it. Read the link BEFORE POSTING IT.

Edit: In fact, Vijainder said the following in his blog (which rahulhunk cited as evidence of Indian superiority):

"...USAF pilots... train to shoot them down much before the enemy aircraft can come in close enough to fight with them... So the question whether Indian fighter pilots are better than USAF fighter pilots is moot... Indeed, the USAF could rule the Indian skies any time it chose to."

"...I think our mainline press tends to be facetious and rather ill informed when it comes to defense matters. It is strange how it overlooks the lack luster performance of the IAF during Op Vijay while blowing the trumpets for Cope Thunder 2004."

"...While pilot skills and super maneuverability are important they can be easily negated with weapon systems. Were the USAF to supply the PAF the latest F-16s with the latest electronics and missiles the apparent superiority of IAF pilots and Su-30MKI would quickly melt away."​

​

In case you did not know, Aliph Ahmed is just a fellow forum member like yourself.

i have read several time anywhere on web about the capability of chinese fighers as that information was damn true.

Kindly note that tphuang (another moderator here) is well respected for his knowledge of China's military developments and also he occasionally posts in the blog Information Dissemination. Please note that not everything you see on the web is reliable and participating in forums like this will help you discern facts from rubbish over time.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Rahulhunk, as per OPSSG's comment.

Both you and Aliph need to pull your heads in and stop this flaming, baiting and trolling against your respective nationalities.

This is a warning to you. Like Aliph, any further infractions will see one or both of you on a ban.

This is not negotiable, does not require further comment and is the Mods final decision.

Any off topic, or inflammatory responses will trigger a reaction from the Mod team

 

[SABRE]

Just to add to GF's comments; the ban for the two concerned members is on 'hair trigger alert.'

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

From a recent AFM Special on important combat aircrafts.

In close combat, The JF-17 excels at being truly agile and responsive to the pilot's commands

Wing Commander Ahsan Rafiq OC JF-17 Test and evaluation flight, Pakistan Air Force.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu320/Aliph_Ahmed_ca/PT1.jpg

 

[umair]

An F-16 A crashed last night. The pilot was killed( found strapped in his seat). Seems to be a case of vertigo induced cfit. The plane was on a strike sortie. RIP S/l Saud.
15 years of accident free viper driving ended last night.

 

[mysterious]

July 17, 2009 (by Asif Shamim) - An F-16 from the Pakistan Air Force has crashed in the vicinity of Khosab on Thursday. The pilot was killed.

According to a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) spokesman, the plane was on routine night training mission when it crashed close to village of NurPur, 105km south west of Sargodha.

Sargodha police said, fire broke out at the accident site, while rescue workers are making all efforts to bring it under control. According to police, the pilots body now identified as Squadron Leader Saud Ghulam Nabi has been recovered from the wreckage.

A board of enquiry has been setup to investigate the cause of the accident.

The last F-16 lost by the PAF was back in 1994, also in the vicinity of Sargodha.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article3631.html

Hmm, wasn't aware about the 1994 crash. My condolences to the pilot's family. I believe the F-16 was on a night combat mission in actuality against Taliban targets in the North-West and that the PAF would want the U.S to immediately provide a replacement a.s.a.p.