NATO in Afghanistan

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia still have influence in countries disintegrated after break down of USSR.Again SU is in aggresive mode , Gorgia is latest example.The US made stinger missiles,high death toll, and ecomical failure played decisive role in USSR defeat in Aafghanistan
There was no military defeat.
 

Firn

Active Member
Massive Surge of the National Afghan Army planned

This seems to be excellent news on the long term. IMHO you get much more for the dollar/euro by supporting an Afghan soldier than one of NATO. This vast increase has many advantages.

1) It could greatly increase the presence of the goverment in all the corners of Afghanistan and provide security.

2) They show that NATO wants to have a strong and indipendant Afghanistan

3) Civilian casualities caused by them might have the less effect on the Afghan, Arab and Western public.

4) NATO casualities could go down as more and more Afghan soldiers provide the "food soldiers", helping to sustain the war effort by decreasing political pressure

5) It takes a large amount of jung men of the street which would most likely end up being unemployed and frustrated.

6) This reduces the man-power basis the Taliban tab for cheap "footsoldiers"

7) This broadly spread western money will be used to stimulate the local economy and support many families.

8) The relatives of this young men will most likely increase the support for the COIN in many parts of Afghanistan.

So many "if" and "could", but a great departure from the stupid limits imposed by Bush. However it remains to be seen if and how fast they can built up such an army...
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Massive Surge of the National Afghan Army planned

This seems to be excellent news on the long term. IMHO you get much more for the dollar/euro by supporting an Afghan soldier than one of NATO. This vast increase has many advantages.

1) It could greatly increase the presence of the goverment in all the corners of Afghanistan and provide security.

2) They show that NATO wants to have a strong and indipendant Afghanistan

3) Civilian casualities caused by them might have the less effect on the Afghan, Arab and Western public.

4) NATO casualities could go down as more and more Afghan soldiers provide the "food soldiers", helping to sustain the war effort by decreasing political pressure

5) It takes a large amount of jung men of the street which would most likely end up being unemployed and frustrated.

6) This reduces the man-power basis the Taliban tab for cheap "footsoldiers"

7) This broadly spread western money will be used to stimulate the local economy and support many families.

8) The relatives of this young men will most likely increase the support for the COIN in many parts of Afghanistan.

So many "if" and "could", but a great departure from the stupid limits imposed by Bush. However it remains to be seen if and how fast they can built up such an army...
You mean to paraphrase "if you want them to eat, teach them to fish", if you want them to be secure, teach them to fight?
 

waraich

Banned Member
You mean to paraphrase "if you want them to eat, teach them to fish", if you want them to be secure, teach them to fight?
What you think Aghan's dont know how to fight, they born with sound of bullet ,US and NATO need to learn about faith and tradition of Afghans ,they never accept any rule or law against their religion (Pustoons only) .Tajiks and Uzbiks Afghans have different characteristics .

Democratic system they considered Haram , they will never accept it even NATO and US give them trillions of dollars aid annually.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Prof. Gilles Dorronsoro, a visiting scholar at Carnegie has some interesting comments on An Alternative Strategy for the Afghan War, if you are interested in details - otherwise, there is a shorter version on YouTube:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IAhnMQ1eNM]Comments on Obama's Afghanistan Surge[/ame]

In summary, his 5 main points are:

(i) Objectives in Afghanistan must be reconciled with the resources available to pursue them.

(ii) The mere presence of foreign soldiers fighting a war in Afghanistan is probably the single most important factor in the resurgence of the Taliban.

(iii) The best way to weaken, and perhaps divide, the armed opposition is to reduce military confrontations.

(iv) The main policy objective should be to leave an Afghan government that is able to survive a U.S. withdrawal.

(v) Strategy should differentiate three areas and allocate resources accordingly: strategic cities and transportation routes that must be under total Afghan/alliance control; buffers around strategic areas, where NATO and the Afghan army would focus their struggle against insurgents; and opposition territory, where NATO and Afghan forces would not expend effort or resources.

(vi) Withdrawal will allow the United States to focus on the central security problem in the region: al-Qaeda and the instability in Pakistan.

I note that his informed comments are at complete variance with the official communications from the Obama administration. If the US adminstration is not careful ISAF will eventually stand for "I Saw Americans Fighting".
 
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regstrup

Member
Umm, exactly this notion is carried by quite a lot of Americans already.
I fully understand, why their are saying that.

There are some of the countries participating in ISAF with quit a large number of troops, who are keeping their troops in the ''safe'' areas of Afghanistan and do not really take part in the heavy fighting in the soutern parts of the country.

So I can't see, why the americans sould be careful about that. They are at least prepared to pay the costs of getting the dirty part of the job done !!!
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
^ Ultimately, ISAF must stand for "I Saw ANA fight". :D

While the story below is not about fighting, it's even better, wining hearts and minds. ISAF forces (unlike ANA and Afghan Police) cannot fight ‘wars amongst the people’ without actually being amongst them, which means being able to maintain sustained contact with the local population to restore security and enable the re-emergence of civil life in areas disrupted by combat operations. We must be mindful that most Afghanistan news is western news and if you only read them you would get the impression that all ANA (or Afghan National Army) are incompetent or corrupt. As the blog post shows, that's not the case but it is just not reported in mainstream media. I offer a perspective from an American blogger deployed in Afghanistan called VAMPIRE 06 . I like reading his posts as he brings forth what the ANA does that is so lacking in news and blog posts:

VAMPIRE 06 said:
There’s been a lot in the news lately about what “victory” in Afghanistan looks like. I really don’t know, nor do I want to venture an opinion on that one. People at much higher pay grades than mine can figure that one out. All I can speak for is the little piece of Afghanistan that I share with my ANA and the local populace of Bermel.

I’ll tell you this; it’s little things. Try to accomplish much more you’ll begin a slow circle of the drain leading to frustration and self induced psychosis. What I’m about to tell you about is 5 kilometers. That’s 3.1 miles, not very far. But it might as well be a light year here.

When we arrived here the fighting season was drawing to a close. The fighting season typically runs from late March to early December. Then snow shuts down the rugged passes used by the Taliban to enter into the country. During the fighting season military operations focus on what’s termed as kinetic, meaning we focus on fighting the enemy directly. As this time drew to a close we were somewhat at a loss for our next course of action.

We sat down and started brain storming for a direction in which to proceed. As an ETT in a remote area we have quite a bit of leeway in determining our strategies. We started with the central premise of counterinsurgency (COIN) warfare. Separate the insurgents from the local populace. How could we do this based upon the assets we had at our disposal?

...

We noticed that our contact with the enemy and their means of support ran along a north/south road. What I’ll call the line of friction. This is the best description that I can think of as it’s wasn’t open conflict all the time, thus friction seems better than conflict. This line traced the western wall of the desolate valley in which we live. Along this line lay the main villages and it served as the major travel corridor. Our hope was to push this line farther to the east.

Next we analyzed our assets. Obviously we had firepower but that didn’t accomplish what we hoped to do. The best asset we had was humanitarian and medical assistance. Tons of food, clothing, cooking oil and blankets were here on the FOB. We also had a US aid station and an ANA aid station from which we could pull medics and medical supplies for use in the local area. We saw these as our conduit to engage with the locals on a frequent and more direct basis allowing them to see the ANA as bringers of hope and not violence.

The timeframe to capitalize was limited. We only had between December and late March while the ACM were out of the valley and couldn’t hinder our operations. Thus, we needed to be out of the wire at least three times a week. That doesn’t sound like much but planning and staging a military operation takes time. It was a very high operational tempo to shoot for.

Our strategy consisted of two tasks in support of our overarching goal of population separation. One, demonstrate that the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan could assist them materially and in conjunction with this conduct an information operations (IO) campaign. Two, we try to gather intelligence on the local area and personalities in preparation for the upcoming fighting season. All of this was focused on the line of friction. We defined some criteria that would cause us to deviate from the line. I won’t elaborate on those but we stuck to them and didn’t lose our focus.

We also decided on criteria that would cause us to go into kinetic operations. Basically; this was self defense only; we would not chase the enemy. We couldn’t allow the enemy to distract us from our task. That may sound strange. However insurgency warfare is theater in the round and often their attacks are conducted just to provoke a response which detracts from the greater purpose.

The single theme of our IO campaign was this, “The government is here supporting you during the winter and the ACM is not”. It was as simple as that. We didn’t deviate or elaborate and as the politicians like to say we always stayed on message. Simple to the point and undisputable. The sub-governor, ANP, ANA and CF all communicated this message. If we heard about someone sending a different message we sat down with them and discussed why they’d strayed off the message. Everyone pounded this message into whoever we could anytime we could.

Along with the IO; we brought all of the humanitarian assistance that we could find. In fact many of you reading this sent us stuff. We took anything that we could and at times used our own monies to buy firewood, food or cooking oil. We didn’t care where it came from or what it looked like we took it out to the people.

Additionally we brought medics and medicine. The CF and ANA medics along with our interpreters would see anyone who came, no matter what the injury or sickness. We attempted to treat anyone; we even looked at some sick goats at one point. We’d treat all comers!

The ANA established an SOP for putting these sites up. It was painful and in the beginning there were some near riots, but we worked through it and got the method down. The ANA also ensured that the materials were distributed directly to the people and not through the tribe elders. This ensured that the people knew that the government had provided the materials.
 
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Firn

Active Member
Some interesting POVs

A well known phenomenon is that single actors and especially organisations look at what they can calculate with relative ease. The perhaps most stunning example is the Value-at-risk approach which substituted in the minds of many leading figures with mathematical precision the messy reality. Compressed numbers have a quality of their own and can easily be spread and used as arguments.

COIN warfare is a part of the full spectrum of war in which steps towards the ultimate goal are among the most difficult to measure...
 

METEORSWARM

New Member
spanish soldiers in afganistan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDlPO-g5UAk]YouTube - Combate de soldados españoles en Afganistan[/ame]
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
SG To Increase Future Deployments

Singapore's role in ISAF is only a supporting one - detachments deployed include a medical team and a construction team to build a health-service centre. Yesterday, Singapore's Minister for Defence, Teo Chee Hean announced plans to increase Singapore's small contributions to ISAF in Afghanistan. Previously, it was announced that the SAF are planning to deploy:
- a UAV Task Group; and
- a KC-135 tanker,​
to support the stabilisation and reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan. Given the increased rocket attacks in Afghanistan, the SAF is prepared to deploy:
- a Weapon Locating Radar (WLR) team,​
to Tarin Kowt in Oruzgan province, to provide early warning of rocket attacks and enhance force protection measures of the ISAF personnel deployed in the base there.
 
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Firn

Active Member
It seems that this are very sensible yet low-profile additions. All of them will provide valuable support for the NATO forces in Afghanistan.
 

waraich

Banned Member
NATO In Afghanistan
IntroductionNewsCommentaryLinks
The NATO presence in Afghanistan is a huge strategic endeavour of such scale and scope that any present judgments on its outcome are wholly premature.
By Paul Smyth, Head, Operational Studies Programme, RUSI

NATO is going through a rough patch. The overt frustration some members have with the Alliance’s inability to shoulder risk equitably in Afghanistan has opened a flood-gate of negative commentary on the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) mission. The extent of criticism has reached deplorable proportions. Much reporting/commentary has comprised merely subjective and selective views of the current situation, while speculative predictions of inevitable doom and failure have assumed an unjustified authority. Chicken-Licken never had it so good, which would be amusing if it were not so serious, for claims and assertions that ISAF/NATO has lost or is losing the war in Afghanistan are most credible when applied to the home-front, where pessimistic assessments of the international endeavour in Afghanistan have become accepted wisdom. This is of great concern for, if concerted action is not taken to stem or reverse the tide of selective and misleading information which pervades the public, media and political arenas, predictions of cataclysmic defeat in Afghanistan will become self-fulfilling prophesies.

Reasons for emphasising or focusing on negative issues vary. At one end of the spectrum are those who have an anti-government or anti-US agenda, who naturally look for any opportunity to promote their position; but others include committed pacifists, opponents of interventionist foreign policies, lobbyists, ill-informed enthusiasts and, at the other end of the scale, those who wish to see progress accelerated through constructive criticism. So it is not that all who criticise the situation in Afghanistan should be opposed or ignored, especially when the ISAF mission demands evaluation: it is an extremely expensive venture, it entails putting significant numbers of people in deadly peril and has significant implications for the authority of the United Nations (ISAF has a UN mandate), NATO credibility and the ability of the International Community to oppose global extremism. Careful analysis of the conduct and progress of the ISAF mission is therefore fully justified, but it must be conducted in an objective manner.

Measuring success and failure
It is clear that many judgments on the progress of the international intervention in Afghanistan are negative in character because it is not recognised that they are based on unrealistic expectations. Thus, despite a near universal understanding that counter-insurgency (COIN) or nation-building missions take decades rather than years to bring to a successful conclusion (and in Afghanistan both challenges are being faced simultaneously), there is no corresponding acceptance that this means there is likely to be little secure improvement after only six years of engagement. Yet without this acknowledgement, observations on the rate of perceived progress, the strength of the enemy, the performance of indigenous Ministries and the capabilities of host-nation security forces are remote from their proper context and lack credibility. Thus, the fact that many Afghan policemen are still corrupt, professionally incompetent and prone to stealing should neither come as a shock, nor be viewed as evidence that in fifteen years time Afghan policemen will not begin to resemble the British ‘Bobby on the Beat’ they are (bizarrely) compared with today.

If observers continually assess the situation in Afghanistan against an inappropriate yardstick, it is no surprise that the mission is repeatedly viewed as failing or already lost. This is not to deny that criticism of progress in Afghanistan can be justified; undoubtedly there are areas of work where a massive expenditure of resources could accelerate progress in the early years of engagement, but the scale of the challenges in Afghanistan and the variable level of international investment in the Afghan mission makes such progress highly difficult (here is an issue where criticism is well founded, as in comparison with other UN peace-building missions, Afghanistan is significantly under-resourced). Furthermore, there are a number of issues where, regardless of investment, progress cannot be cultivated without time. Hence, increased funds might speed up the training and equipping of the Afghan National Army (ANA), but leadership in combat and battlefield experience cannot be gained ‘overnight’. The same is true of endemic corruption, social values, local attitudes to central government and the dynamics of community loyalties. Many of the fundamental changes necessary in Afghanistan can only happen gradually, so it is insidious to observe and complain that, for example, warlords still wield power, the Taliban still extends influence and the poppy crop continues to prosper in areas of instability. Unfortunately, it is not possible to create a graph with ‘Success’ on one axis and ‘Time’ on the other, onto which a definitive line may be drawn that delineates the ‘normal’ rate of progress for such an undertaking as Afghanistan, against which the situation after 5, 10, or 24 years may be gauged. If it were, there would be a yardstick by which judgments on success or failure could justifiably rest. But there is no such credible graph, no definitive model that would help indicate ‘how things are going’, and in the absence of such a tool perhaps the only certainty is that without time there can be no success in Afghanistan - a principle many observers and commentators would do well to assimilate.

NATO Unity
Turning to the problem of NATO members’ varying commitment to the ISAF mission, it is premature to forecast the demise of the Alliance, especially when there has been sufficient friction in relations with Russia to remind NATO members of the Alliance’s core function. Although the shedding of soldiers’ blood is naturally generating tension and demands for shared risk-taking, the reality is that national self-interest normally assumes more importance than coalition appeals. The requirement is then to create latitude for compromise. However angry nations suffering the brunt of casualties in Afghanistan may become, such angst is unlikely to generate sufficient sympathy in the populations of states with a lower resilience for casualties to produce a change in their current policy. Attempts to shame such members into more robust action are unlikely to work. For instance, whatever the plea from Washington, Berlin will still have to vote annually on the continued German military mission in Northern Afghanistan. This, and the deep public resistance to the Bundeswehr actively fighting insurgents, fundamentally impacts on the nature of Germany’s ISAF engagement. That is an unwelcome political reality which can be railed against but must ultimately be accepted. Similarly, it is unlikely that whatever happens next in the South of Afghanistan will elicit a substantial wave of new forces. Should the fighting increase, appetites for becoming involved would lessen, while a reduction in fighting would undermine the argument for reinforcements. The disappointing reality may be that ISAF/NATO commanders will have to do more with what they have, rather than have more to do with.

The restrictions nations place on the employment of their contribution to ISAF cause its Commander, General McNeil, many and serious operational difficulties, but these would be minor compared to those following a withdrawal of the German, Spanish, Italian or Scandinavian forces deemed unwilling to get involved in combat. Frustrating as their passivity may be, unless they can be replaced with more robust forces, they remain a necessary part of the ISAF coalition. Of more concern is the resilience of the nations currently shouldering the burden of that combat, and the suggestion that Canada may not extend its presence in Kandahar unless 1000 reinforcements are found from elsewhere is significant, but would still not inevitably cause ISAF to unravel. Assuming the Canadian announcement is more than rhetoric designed to goad allies into action (the Poles have already offered Canada the use of 2 helicopters), it provides a year for the ANA to increase its presence in Kandahar, for security to improve there, or in which to find support from within or beyond NATO. And if Canada really did forfeit the gains made and blood spilt in Kandahar by withdrawing its contingent in 2009, the US military is capable of succeeding the Canadian Joint Task Force of 2500 personnel (e.g., the forthcoming additional US Marine Corps deployment to Afghanistan is of 3200 troops). Such a move might follow anyway if calls for a redrawing of the military areas of responsibility in Afghanistan gain traction (as suggested to the US House Armed Services Committee in January by retired Lieutenant General Barno, a previous Commander of international forces in Afghanistan).

Enhancing ISAF cohesion
In searching for compromise solutions to NATO’s ‘split’ over Afghanistan there are steps which could be taken to preserve the cohesion of the world’s largest military organisation. These include:

Making greater contributions to the training of the ANA and ANP. ISAF is standing in the breach pending the arrival of sufficient Afghan security forces of the requisite capability and quality to shoulder responsibility for their own national security. One encouraging area of progress routinely ignored in Western commentary on Afghanistan is the steady growth and capability of the ANA. Observations that highlight how ferocious, brave and tenacious insurgents from the Pashtun region can be could also be applied to the government forces recruited from tribes with the same martial heritage. Yet, illogically, eulogies about fighting proficiency tend to be made of only the insurgents. The improving performance of the ANA is to NATO’s credit and advantage, but accelerating that process by abbreviating the prescribed training would be counter-productive. Committing Afghan forces to combat prematurely would invite defeat and provide the insurgents with operational and moral successes. However, another way of producing the necessary Afghan forces is to expand the capacity of the ANA training system. This would require many more military instructors and much additional equipment for the newly formed Kandaks (Afghan battalions). Neither is this measure a panacea, as many current ISAF-manned Operational Mentor and Liaison Teams (OMLTs) embed with ANA units and provide direct support to their Afghan charges when they are in combat areas. Consequently, those NATO members most concerned about casualties would be unlikely to expose their training staff to ‘unacceptable’ danger. Nevertheless, significantly enhanced NATO training support to the ANA would add an important impetus to achieving an Afghan solution to Afghanistan’s problems.

A substantial increase in the resources provided directly to those nations engaged in combat operations. There are a number of ways in which the NATO members who do not routinely conduct combat operations could help those that do. For example: the Canadians already operate Leopard II main battle tanks which are on loan from the German Army. Such provision of additional advanced equipment to augment the normal ORBAT (Order of Battle) of the nations engaged in combat should be vigorously pursued. Similarly, if those nations need to procure extra equipment (e.g. the UK’s acquisition of Mine Resistant Ambush Protection (MRAP) vehicles) to enhance their combat performance or reduce their vulnerability to casualties, other NATO members could fund, at least partially, the acquisition. This would obviously involve significant negotiation in capitals but the situation in Afghanistan appears to merit the need for extraordinary action, even in the financial arena. Force protection measures, either for personnel, vehicles, helicopters or static facilities is one area where even parochial concerns about information or equipment sharing (e.g. electronic jamming devices) would not prohibit a meaningful contribution to be made and there would be others. To maximise the potential benefits of enhanced Alliance support perhaps a (rapid) formal NATO agreement is needed for such support to be provided on an obligatory basis. Also, beyond the provision and procurement of equipment, those forces engaged in the Southern provinces should never lack money (cash) with which to conduct the Quick Impact Projects that can achieve crucial local consent. NATO should therefore ensure that a pool of funds is made available for immediate use by commanders in the immediate battle zone. For instance, if Italian troops are not able to spend Italian money to oppose the Taliban influence in Uruzgan, then Dutch troops should be.

Enhancing Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance (ISTAR). In January, General McNeil publicly noted the importance of ISTAR capabilities. The provision of additional ISTAR assets would not only assist ISAF but also aid the developing operational capability of the ANA. The ISTAR arena provides an excellent opportunity for nations to make a valuable contribution to ISAF’s overall effectiveness without significantly adjusting their current approach to risk. Italy, Spain, France and Germany have air forces with the capability to conduct ISTAR missions. The Luftwaffe already flies Tornado reconnaissance aircraft over Afghanistan and should be encouraged to expand that contribution. Available ramp space from which to base air operations would limit the number of additional aircraft that could be based in-country, and the limited regional infrastructure would also constrain the level of air operations that could be achieved over Afghanistan, but NATO’s Air-to-Air Refuelling (AAR) and Unmanned Air Vehicle (UAV) capacities extend far beyond the present requirement in Afghanistan.

AAR would enlarge the area from which air operations could be mounted and UAVs could be based in-country with a smaller footprint than that for manned aircraft. An enlarged air effort would necessitate a substantial commitment of resources but is an area within the Alliance which is under-utilised and which could be expanded without significantly increasing the danger posed to NATO personnel. Increased ISTAR capacity would undoubtedly also entail a requirement for additional personnel to collate, analyse and disseminate the additional mass of ISTAR information, yet these would essentially remain in headquarters and air bases, not be exposed to danger in combat areas. Intelligence, to which ISTAR assets make a critical contribution, is a fundamental pre-requisite for successful COIN operations.

For ISAF, the existence of insurgent support bases in Pakistan increases the importance of conducting surveillance of the extensive border area, especially as the remote and inhospitable nature of the terrain makes monitoring by ground forces extremely difficult. In addition, the need for an enhanced ISTAR ORBAT is amplified by ISAF’s paucity of combat units, so those which are available must be employed with the utmost efficiency. That goal is facilitated by the availability of timely all-source intelligence, to which ISTAR assets make an invaluable contribution. Too often, insurgents move into and within Afghanistan without detection and have been able to ambush ISAF patrols or units that are in transit. NATO members must ensure that this should never happen because of a lack of ISTAR assets.

For decades, NATO has pooled resources to generate capability (e.g. the NATO Airborne Early Warning And Control (NATO AWACS) Force), and it may be that a similar solution should be adopted to provide ISAF with UAVs and other ISTAR assets in Afghanistan.

In conclusion, the UN-mandated mission to support the elected government in Afghanistan is a huge strategic endeavour of such scale and scope that any present judgments on its outcome are wholly premature. Time is of the essence, especially given the desultory character of much of the international commitment to the mission. Observers should cease using unrealistic expectations as a basis for judgment and exercise greater strategic patience. More emphasis should be given to areas where substantial progress in Afghanistan has been made, although criticism could and should be made to elicit the level of international effort that the undertaking requires. Those frustrated within NATO must not lose sight of what is within the art of the possible.

There is no value in persisting with issues that cannot be changed, but enormous benefit in vigorously pursuing additional contributions that are within the realms of possibility. The training of Afghan security forces, the level of tangible support given by all Alliance members to those in combat and the provision of enhanced ISTAR capabilities each provide opportunities for NATO to do better at working within the constraints that limit its operation. The longer-term consequences and elemental implications of what the variable commitment to Afghanistan means for NATO as a whole should be dealt with separately, and kept from damaging the execution of its mission there.

Paul Smyth - Head, Operational Studies Programme, RUSI
The views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of RUSI.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It looks like the German government has changed or made modifications/amendments to the use of deadly force with German forces serving abroad, could I get a good perspective from one of our German forum contributors on how this will be applied, I am really interested in the change to where a German unit has the authorization to prevent attacks from even being carried out, this would place them in a offensive mode so to speak in places like Afghanistan.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Especially the area around Kunduz is very hot since some months now.
The guerillas shifted their operations more and more from IEDs, mortars and rockets to direct firefights in bigger units.
Thus it put more pressure onto our guys there.
Essentially the (simplfied) idea of only firing back when under direct attack is no longer viable (Not that I thought it to be viable in the past...).

So right now the Bundeswehr is allowed to perform classical offenisve operations against identified enemy groups.
The current operation in the the RC North which includes ca. 300 German Soldiers (mostly from the regional QRF), 800 ANA troops and some 100 ANP troops (as well as allied air support) is a direct result of the new situation.
Prior to the elections in A-stan the ISAF and ANA/ANP forces all over the country try to roll back the Taliban to make sure the elections are as safe as possible.
The German offensive is part of this effort. It is in it's second week and it goes on.

In the end this also resulted in us seeing the first direct assaults onto enemy positions in company strength and above since WWII by german forces.
The Marder also sees action for the first time.

If you want so they way of operating changed from a mostly passive one to an active one.

I always said it and I say it again.
The politics in our country change. Not as fast as some of our allies want but they change.
It is also a signal to our allies who thought and said that probably the Bundeswehr in the north would run and cry for help if the Taliban would shift forces into the RC North.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Prior to the elections in A-stan the ISAF and ANA/ANP forces all over the country try to roll back the Taliban to make sure the elections are as safe as possible.
... and i presume the CDU/CSU will milk any potential success of this current offensive publicity-wise too, considering Germany's facing elections in September too.

The primary amendment to the RoE, as far as i am aware, is that an armed enemy that is not actively firing at German troops (e.g. when fleeing/breaking away) is now still considered a valid target.
In addition, some rules that have caused mostly cautious interpretations* - such as when to attack, before or after the enemy has fired - have been clarified and simplified, easing offensive stances and preventive attacks.

*- interpretations not only among soldiers, but mostly the judicial side handling possible repercussions for soldiers - the interpretation there was pretty much "self-defense only".

Btw, there's already the first potential judicial case in connection with the offensive - an Afghan teenager was shot and killed while driving towards a German outpost despite warning shots fired. German attorneys so far don't see reasons for opening criminal proceedings against the soldier responsible, but are investigating on whether to do so.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I thought that they found out that weapons and explosives were transported by the guys in the car.

And I also suspect that they are going to try to get the merits of a successfull operation. But to some degree I accept that. They finally start to improve the way of how our troops operate even if they are late.
 

uzodinma

New Member
With NATO planning to increase its troop size by 25-30% over the next 18 months one has to ask the question that NATO may be using the excuse of the Taliban and the Afghans weak government to secure a long term military stronghold in one of the most important strategic areas of the unstable world.
There is almost no mentioning of troop/force withdrawal only Generals screaming for more resources.
NATO will continue to build up serious amounts of firepower in Afghanistan until they feel they are in a position of force to force its presence in other local areas of conflict especially Iran.
NATO is an expensive effective force that calls for heavy demands from its members and this conflict is far from over it never will be,NATO need the Taliban excuse to justify the massed build up of force.
With the British withdrawal imminent from Iraq,those forces all now experienced fighting troops will not be going home to the green fields of England but straight to the bases in Afghanistan.
The UK has had 3 previous Afghan wars and has learned well.don`t be fooled by western propaganda these troop losses are well in acceptable levels for the massed planned build up.
Iran be careful ......lol
What NATO needs is a military pact with the Government of Afghanistan:like the Status of forces Agreement in Iraq.This makes troops protected allies of an Islamic state (dhimmies).Killing dhimmies is not Islamic.This can be used to cause al Qaeda and Taliban to retreat using the mass media and local modes of communication.Cocaine is haram(sin) and is an evidence that proves that Al Qaeda are satanists,not Muslims! Military intelligence could have used this to end the war quickly without much expense
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
To end the war quickly?
As if it is not widely known that the Taliban are engaged in the narcotics industry.
That hasn't stopped them from getting personal, supplies and money from abroad and from within Afghanistan so far.
Why should it make a huge difference in the future.
And ISAF forces in Aghanistan are there with the support of the government. They operate together with ANA and ANP forces.
Killing these local troops is not permitted also. Why should ISAF forces be more protected?
 
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