NATO in Afghanistan
- Thread starter evilbrit
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Onkel
New Member
Well, every modern AA System calculates the path of the incoming threat, but from where to where? To make it clear, good old Gepard calculates the place the plane will go (to shoot it down) but doesn´t care from where it startet. Mantis needs to know where the projectile goes from where it is tracked first, but not from where it was fired. Shure, it could be done, but I don´t know if it will be done. It takes more than a calculator, it takes also a routine for calculation. And it takes Mantis to output the calculated numbers. Will it put them out? I doubt it.
Onkel
New Member
It is absolutely no brainer, to culculate the ballistic curve is no wizadry (if you don´t include wind), but the guys working with Mantis will be part of the AA forces, not of the artillery. The System will work outonomously and fire automatically. But to send HaFlaFüSys Data to ADLER is to much Jointness for the coming years, though it would be the logical next step. Just keep in mind, the additional costs for the implementaion would have to be payed out of the AA budget....
@Waylander: Of course I expect that the Taliban react to the potential deployment of heavy arty - in war the other side votes too.
MANTIS could easily spew the calculated position fo the launcher on a digital map. Now we would just have to use a WWI baloon over any base with an experienced observer in the wicker basket to get a immediate report on the activities in the area indicated on his flatscreen.
Firn
MANTIS could easily spew the calculated position fo the launcher on a digital map. Now we would just have to use a WWI baloon over any base with an experienced observer in the wicker basket to get a immediate report on the activities in the area indicated on his flatscreen.
Or in other words we could mount a light stabilized sight with high quality spotting optics and thermals under a compact lighter-then-aircraft connected to the base camp and get a rather interesting device. Note that it will displace UAV.
Firn
Both MANTIS and such a possible software implementation routine would be paid out of the "Einsatzbedingter Sofortbedarf" budget, not the regular Bundeswehr budget. Just like about everything else for ISAF.Just keep in mind, the additional costs for the implementaion would have to be payed out of the AA budget....
Except both are already tied together via FüInfoSysH, which will be deployed with ISAF starting with the next rotation.
That would be an legal engagement and I don't see the problem.
If you care about hearts and minds; Any damage done to the lurkewarm feelings of the locals, at least those that have a say, can be mended by paying the traditional "bloodmoney" . And if you don't believe in hearts and minds (I don't, for one) pay the bloodmoney anyway; out of respect of the local customs (and the pockets of those that have a say).
And if we don't like war, we should stop waging war, go home and leave Mr. Karzai alone with his heroine, that I hear he has developed a taste for.
I am the first one who puts his signature under the points you raised.
But we have to take our political reality into account. And every commander who calls in a strike by a platoon of PzHs with the only recon source being the fire finder Radar and then accidently hits a bunch of civvies is going to take a severe punishment.
Nevertheless there are already some impressing other surveillance capabilities present in our camps.
As so often it is a lack of political will that keeps us from winning this struggle. A lack of will by some countries to do what is militarily needed and a lack of will in all countries to invest an even bigger amount of other ressources into Afghanistan.
But we have to take our political reality into account. And every commander who calls in a strike by a platoon of PzHs with the only recon source being the fire finder Radar and then accidently hits a bunch of civvies is going to take a severe punishment.
Nevertheless there are already some impressing other surveillance capabilities present in our camps.
As so often it is a lack of political will that keeps us from winning this struggle. A lack of will by some countries to do what is militarily needed and a lack of will in all countries to invest an even bigger amount of other ressources into Afghanistan.
Ok, our secretary of defense, Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg, just visited our troops in Afghanistan and announced that 2 PzH2000s as well as additional Marder A5 IFVs and additional missiles of some kind are going to get deployed the Kunduz area.
Probably they mean additional MILAN systems but as usual the media has no clue so one couldn't really understand about what kind of missile they were talking about.
Probably they mean additional MILAN systems but as usual the media has no clue so one couldn't really understand about what kind of missile they were talking about.
I haven't read any other news so I just speculated about it being Milan as it is already in use on the Marder and Fuchs.
On which platform do they want to deploy TOWs?
Bring back the Wiesel? Or maybe just on Wolf and tripod?
Either way it is a little bit mysterious. I would have thought that Milan is sufficient. I wonder if they want it because of the range or because of the warhead.
On which platform do they want to deploy TOWs?
Bring back the Wiesel? Or maybe just on Wolf and tripod?
Either way it is a little bit mysterious. I would have thought that Milan is sufficient. I wonder if they want it because of the range or because of the warhead.
Yeah, may be a possibility.
The TI and range may come in handy not only to dug out well hidden enemies but also for general surveillance.
Edit: A f*** we lost 4 more men from our PRT in Faizabad in the last hour. Several others are wounded. They were on a joint mission with Belgian and ANA units.
Looks like an Eagle IV got hit either by RPG fire or by the IED which also blew up.
The TI and range may come in handy not only to dug out well hidden enemies but also for general surveillance.
Edit: A f*** we lost 4 more men from our PRT in Faizabad in the last hour. Several others are wounded. They were on a joint mission with Belgian and ANA units.
Looks like an Eagle IV got hit either by RPG fire or by the IED which also blew up.
Terrible weeks, indeed. It seemed to have happened in the context of larger engagement or operation. The days of the relative calm north are long gone.
TOW and TI seem help in quite some situation. A good sight with an accurate missile with a heavy warhead at their fingertips is good news, especially considering the (understandable) limitations placed on the use of heavy indirect fire.
A rack with 2-4 Bunkerfausts attached to the machineguns or some other weapon stations of vehicles might be good a idea, especially for the lighter ones. It would allow them to get quickly relatively accurate and devastating HE on target.
Firn
The Eagle seems to have been hit by a soviet artillery rocket, a BM-1 (107mm). A picture fromt the Soviet invasion. Seems to have been a rather common tactic to employ them in direct fire, and sadly it still is.
Firn
Firn
99% of these rockets don't hit their intended target.
Sadly the remaining 1% is what causes these losses.
As for a rack of Bunkerfaust rounds on a weapons station.
IMO this is not a viable solution. Such a rack would mean additional weight which has to be moved by the weapons station.
I also think that several normal Bunkerfausts employed by the dismounts offer a higher degree of flexibility.
Often enough the troops in Afghanistan also carry Milan ATGMs on their Fuchs APCs for use against high value targets at long and middle distances directly from the vehicles.
Sadly the remaining 1% is what causes these losses.
As for a rack of Bunkerfaust rounds on a weapons station.
IMO this is not a viable solution. Such a rack would mean additional weight which has to be moved by the weapons station.
I also think that several normal Bunkerfausts employed by the dismounts offer a higher degree of flexibility.
Often enough the troops in Afghanistan also carry Milan ATGMs on their Fuchs APCs for use against high value targets at long and middle distances directly from the vehicles.
In the usual modus operandi even the 1% seems to be overestimated. My guess is that the rocket/rockets were positioned not that far away, camouflaged and rigged to a triggering mechanism and/or were sighted and corrected in. Still it was a long shot and sadly an effective one. I really hope that we will see a working ADS like AMAP-ADS. It could be a [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw9rYssjE-Q"]YouTube- AMAP ADS.mp4[/nomedia], especially it should be also suitable for light vehicles like the Eagle. Of course due to the relative light passive armor and the heavy warhead it will remain a threat.
The intent is to give light vehicles with light weapon stations a light and readily available and mulitfunctional rapid HE-projection capability, especially useful in breaking ambushes. One or two with a 20-40kg rack should suffice, but more on heavier remote stations could make sense. The Panzerfaust is readily available and the load can also be used by the infantry, with all the advantages.
Milan and TOW bring different capabilities to the table and make perfectly sense considering the METT-TC.
Firn
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