Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[SABRE]

I think Ice Kid you opened a separate thread on this topic (stealth JF-17) and I closed it since the credibility of the article is questionable.

What I can assume here is that PAF is interested in CAC's J-XX program but nothing concrete is there to prove it either.

 

[FARHAN_KHAN007]

P.A.F look's only Chinese fighter ...
J-10
JF-17
J-11
these 3 are simply best overall ....

 

[SABRE]

P.A.F look's only Chinese fighter ...
J-10
JF-17
J-11
these 3 are simply best overall ....

And your point of discussion is? People already know this information. And just for correction PAF has American made F-16 and is inducting more & PAF neither has J-11 nor there are any plans.

 

[FARHAN_KHAN007]

And your point of discussion is? People already know this information. And just for correction PAF has American made F-16 and is inducting more & PAF neither has J-11 nor there are any plans.
my bro i just thinking is that ...

J-11 is requirment of P.A.F ....
fight india with 40 years old machine ?
we know very well US not given F-16 easily .....

 

[SABRE]

And your point of discussion is? People already know this information. And just for correction PAF has American made F-16 and is inducting more & PAF neither has J-11 nor there are any plans.
my bro i just thinking is that ...
J-11 is requirment of P.A.F ....
fight india with 40 years old machine ?
we know very well US not given F-16 easily .....

First use the "Quote" option instead of copy-pasting concerned post when posting.

J-11 is not PAF's requirement and F-16 project as a whole may be about 4 decades old but its potency is similar to that of a 16 year old teenager. You need to gain more knowledge on F-16 Block 15 A/B and F-16 Block 52+ C/D along with Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU) program not just that of PAF but in general. Apparently I am never in the mood to go technical nor am I good at explaining technical and technological details so I suggest you go "google" on it.

Its the air-superiority fighter that PAF is looking for and it has opted for FC-20 (J-10) and F-16s for that. J-11 would become a financial and logistic burden when PAF is already opting for 2 different platforms. 3rd one doesn't make sence.

Lastly all I can say is that unless and until either Pakistan or China officially come out with a statement of purchaseand sell of J-11 respectively we would not be having this discussion. Defence Talk strongly opposses creating false news and rumors.

 

[dragonfire]

I have not heard of any attempt by PAC to reverse engineer the predator. Media is perhaps using the term "predator" to make a comparison between the new UAVs PAC has developed. Like predators they can probably carry some air-to-ground missiles.

Me neither, i was not even aware of UCAVs in either PAF or IAF, are there any further updates regarding this news item or can someone substantiate or challenge the claims made in the news item, also any details of the offensive capabilities of these UAV combat capable/armed or otherwise

It is esp interesting when Pakistan is under UCAV attacks by US which probably is using predators to launch missiles etc

 

[gf0012-aust]

Me neither, i was not even aware of UCAVs in either PAF or IAF

One of Indias first UAV's was actually and originally a US Drone (Boeing).

we discussed it in here briefly about 4 years ago

 

[dragonfire]

One of Indias first UAV's was actually and originally a US Drone (Boeing).

we discussed it in here briefly about 4 years ago

No i was asking specificaly about Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles. There is a radar site attacking Israeli made Harpy UAV/UCAV (am not sure how to designate it though, i saw a video grab showing the harpy launching itself against a target and the explosive in the nose cone explodes on impact - meaning they are not retrievable post offensive attack) in the IAF stable, however am not aware of any other UCAVs like a predator / reaper in either stable

On a side note Lakshya is a target drone in the IAF, does it have any similarity to the US / Boeing drone you mentioned

 

[gf0012-aust]

No i was asking specificaly about Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles.

There is fundamentally no separation in terms nowadays. UAV's do weapons delivery. UCAV's and TUAV's is basically a redundant terminology

There is a radar site attacking Israeli made Harpy UAV/UCAV (am not sure how to designate it though, i saw a video grab showing the harpy launching itself against a target and the explosive in the nose cone explodes on impact - meaning they are not retrievable post offensive attack) in the IAF stable, however am not aware of any other UCAVs like a predator / reaper in either stable

only the americans and israelis have done weapons missions with UAV's - so I'm not sure what your point is. one wouldn't normally use the UAV as the weapon as it defeats the utilitarian purpose

On a side note Lakshya is a target drone in the IAF, does it have any similarity to the US / Boeing drone you mentioned

It is a Boeing system rebadged under license. It's NOT indian. it has been railed to carry weapons as well as sensors.

btw, this is a PAF thread.

 

[dragonfire]

There is fundamentally no separation in terms nowadays. UAV's do weapons delivery. UCAV's and TUAV's is basically a redundant terminology

Dude can you pls (anyone for tht matter) list the UAVs in the PAF with offesnsive weapon delivery capabilitites and not just reconissance, also you can tell us all wht the correct and prevalent terminologies are

only the americans and israelis have done weapons missions with UAV's - so I'm not sure what your point is. one wouldn't normally use the UAV as the weapon as it defeats the utilitarian purpose

but the harpies do, they lock in on enemey radar and attack it and in the process get destroyed also (am not saying tht is the right model or logic, am stating wht is)

It is a Boeing system rebadged under license. It's NOT indian. it has been railed to carry weapons as well as sensors.

btw, this is a PAF thread.

Can you pls provide some proof of this - wht i have read so far have indicated tht the drone was created by DRDO companies like ADE and HAL - tnks

 

[gf0012-aust]

Can you pls provide some proof of this - wht i have read so far have indicated tht the drone was created by DRDO companies like ADE and HAL - tnks

Then what you read has been written by people who have no idea what they're talking about. The proof is that Being had this platform 10 years before the IAF even knew what it was.

Australia has just retired her fleet last year as the tech is regarded as obsolete

it was NEVER an indian design. its a true blue american design that was also licensed to other countries.

Its an MQM 107 legacy platform. note Lakshya looks exactly like the australian kalkara right down to the hardpoints and config - and kalkara was a licensed built MQM 107E

there is a thread in here from years ago where we did a side by side comparison and showed that it was identical.

call Lakshya indian is like calling brahmos an indian design. it's not - its a legacied development from another manufacturer.

 

[dragonfire]

it was NEVER an indian design. its a true blue american design that was also licensed to other countries.

Its a BQM. note Lakshya looks exactly like the australian kalkara right down to the hardpoints and config - and kalkara was a licensed built BQM.

Well lakshya and kalkara look alike

Hmmm.. Well for one thing if it is a licensed production - then why would India claim it to be a Indigenious development, and if its a licensed production wouldnt tht be reflect in some literature from boeing am sure there should be some transactions and contracts etc

even if the design is same i doubt its a licensed production - indian literature should refelect this - its not like its a very top seceret project

P.S - The Indian Air force thread has been locked since Nov, pl unlock it as well as the indian navy thread also

 

[gf0012-aust]

Well lakshya and kalkara look alike

Hmmm.. Well for one thing if it is a licensed production - then why would India claim it to be a Indigenious development, and if its a licensed production wouldnt tht be reflect in some literature from boeing am sure there should be some transactions and contracts etc

It doesn't matter what people claim (some kids insist that Brahmos is all indian when it's a bastardised Yakhont or P800 - doesn't make their claims so)

either way, the Lakshya, Kalkara are MQM 107E legacy platforms.

The MQM 107E is a 34 year old design originally designed by Beech, so its not surprising that there is no mention on Boeing, Raytheon or Tracors sites - they also don't mention the RAAF license - that doesn't make Kalkara "indigenous" to australia.

quite frankly, "indigenous" is a term that gets used far too liberally rather than literally

and this is a PAF thread

 

[dragonfire]

It doesn't matter what people claim (some kids insist that Brahmos is all indian when it's a bastardised Yakhont or P800 - doesn't make their claims so)

either way, the Lakshya, Kalkara are MQM 107E legacy platforms.

The MQM 107E is a 34 year old design originally designed by Beech, so its not surprising that there is no mention on Boeing, Raytheon or Tracors sites - they also don't mention the RAAF license - that doesn't make Kalkara "indigenous" to australia.

quite frankly, "indigenous" is a term that gets used far too liberally rather than literally

and this is a PAF thread

Ok you havent read my edited post though

 

[gf0012-aust]

Ok you havent read my edited post though

and you're not reading mine. Specifically that neither raytheon or boeing mention australian production of the MQM-107E as the "kalkara" - and yet it is.

The original engine was the same as the MQM and the original problems with Lakshya related to foreign currency conversions - guess why there was foreign currency involvement.

I'm not going to go around in circles on this.

the indian requirements of this discussion should be in an indian related thread, not PAF. The prev indian thread was locked due to kids going off the rails. It will get raised with the other mods and web to see if we will open it again - otherwise, start another thread topic on India.

I will let Sabre, Umair or someone else comment about Pakistani UAV's etc.....

This is however my last on lakshya in this thread.

 

[mysterious]

And the real issue seems to have become lost in this derailed discussion abt Indian UAVs - ENOUGH Mr dragonfire!

Sabre or Umair; if either of you two could provide us with some information as to which, if any, offensive UAVs has PAF developed?

I believe I saw a video on youtube about FALCO UAV that comes close to having the 'physique' might I say - to enable it to be modified to carry weapons. What disappointed me though was that it uses a propellor.

Have a look:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAc0Kcqq7EA"]YouTube - Pakistan AirForce Launches UAV, 'FALCO'.flv[/ame]

 

[gf0012-aust]

What disappointed me though was that it uses a propellor.

I wouldn't worry about it having a propeller - to date, the UAV's that have the highest weapons delivery rate, the highest number of hours usage, and the most widely used - are prop based UAV's.

Prop based UAV's do have their advantages - efficiencies of persistence and build cost being a couple of obvious ones.

 

[dragonfire]

And the real issue seems to have become lost in this derailed discussion abt Indian UAVs - ENOUGH Mr dragonfire!

Sabre or Umair; if either of you two could provide us with some information as to which, if any, offensive UAVs has PAF developed?

Sorry if there was a discussion related to Indian stuff on the PAF thread, not attempting to Hog the thread, was genuinely interested to know if PAF possesed any Unmanned Offensive/Combat capable Airborne Systems though, none have posted or replied in the last 10 days though

Also does PAF have any radar-site attacking limited offensive role unmanned systems like the Harpy

 

[mysterious]

I wouldn't worry about it having a propeller - to date, the UAV's that have the highest weapons delivery rate, the highest number of hours usage, and the most widely used - are prop based UAV's.

Prop based UAV's do have their advantages - efficiencies of persistence and build cost being a couple of obvious ones.

Thanks for addressing my concern. What is your take on the UAV in the video that I've posted tech-wise? PAF going in the right direction?

 

[swerve]

And the real issue seems to have become lost in this derailed discussion abt Indian UAVs - ENOUGH Mr dragonfire!

Sabre or Umair; if either of you two could provide us with some information as to which, if any, offensive UAVs has PAF developed?

I believe I saw a video on youtube about FALCO UAV that comes close to having the 'physique' might I say - to enable it to be modified to carry weapons. What disappointed me though was that it uses a propellor.

You know that the Falco is Italian?
http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Comm...oni_Esterne/Scheda_Prodotto_2/UAV_2/FALCO.pdf

BTW, the Falco would be capable of carrying only very light weapons. It has a payload of 70kg, & that includes sensors. With a useful sensor package & fuel load, there's very little left for weapons. For a proper armed UAV, something more along the lines of the Sky-Y, at twice the weight, would probably be the minimum required.

Nothing wrong with a propellor, BTW. Look at the Predator, Reaper, Heron, etc. As far as I can see, there's nothing wrong with the Falco, either. It looks like a very useful tactical UAV. The sensors integrated, or being integrated, with it seem fine: electro-optical & a miniature AESA radar (Selex PicoSAR).