Su-34 Completes Testing

[Feanor]

Russia has now 3 (three) Su-34.
Located at: LII (Zhukovsky, Moscow Region), Lipezk and Achtubinsk.

Do you have a quote?

The Su-34(side nr02) delivered in 2007, is the only fullback operating in the RuAF!
All other Su-34s are undergoing evaluation at Akhtubinsk centre.
This was the mid-2008 status.

Here is an older article on the Su-34:

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...trike-aircraft-trials-nearing-completion.html

None of them are operating. The only Fullbacks in the VVS are located a Lipetsk training center and are doing conversion training.

Also the 18 planes by 2010, is not a per year contract. It's a contract for 18 Su-34 planes BY 2010. That's it. It's also iirc the only contract currently in existence on it.

 

[ghost]

Guys,
Russia now doesn't have the money. Within last 7 years they've just made 1 (one) Tu-160.
When they say something about it's military production plans, try not to believe. E.g. just couple months ago Pres.Medvedev said that they would build 12 air carriers in the nearest future. Who would believe that if they were finishing the Petr Velikij military ship which was about 75-80% built about 15 years ???

 

[Haavarla]

Guys,
Russia now doesn't have the money. Within last 7 years they've just made 1 (one) Tu-160.
When they say something about it's military production plans, try not to believe. E.g. just couple months ago Pres.Medvedev said that they would build 12 air carriers in the nearest future. Who would believe that if they were finishing the Petr Velikij military ship which was about 75-80% built about 15 years ???

Now that comparison wasn't very usefull gost.
Russia's economy is better today, than 10-15 years ago. Even with the economical crises these days, Russia will go foreward with several of the modernizing program and procure new units to the RuAF.

How many new units we will see and how fast they will pop out, is what we are trying to find out here gost.

Here is some news article i found, you can interpret these article in different direction but it dosen't change the fact that the RuAF will see a new structure in the near future with new assets/units replacing the older units like Su-24M etc etc.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/08/315610/lessons-of-the-five-day-war.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2008/russia-080114-rianovosti01.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2008/russia-080109-rianovosti01.htm

 

[Haavarla]

None of them are operating. The only Fullbacks in the VVS are located a Lipetsk training center and are doing conversion training.

Also the 18 planes by 2010, is not a per year contract. It's a contract for 18 Su-34 planes BY 2010. That's it. It's also iirc the only contract currently in existence on it.

Well, acording to the article in AIR INTERNATIONAL okt08 edition, there is an picture of an Su-34"02" taxing at Lipetisk.
It allso says this is the ONLY Su-34 delivered to the RuAF. All Other Su-34 are undergoing evaluation at the Akhtubinsk.
But this was sometime in the summer 2008, it could have changed since then..

I think that would be a fair conclusion.

I wonder if the Su-34 Spec's will change in any way, in the second production stage(next 10 units)?

Maybe some new systems, like ECM, Radar, software upgrade and possible a small weight reduction too..

 

[gf0012-aust]

Russia has now 3 (three) Su-34.
Located at: LII (Zhukovsky, Moscow Region), Lipezk and Achtubinsk.

As asked by Feanor (note that he is a Moderator) where is the supporting citation/evidence for this?

Empirical statements of fact require supporting evidence or they should be reworded appropriately

 

[Feanor]

It allso says this is the ONLY Su-34 delivered to the RuAF. All Other Su-34 are undergoing evaluation at the Akhtubinsk.

Does it say how many others?

 

[Wall83]

Guys,
Russia now doesn't have the money. Within last 7 years they've just made 1 (one) Tu-160.
When they say something about it's military production plans, try not to believe. E.g. just couple months ago Pres.Medvedev said that they would build 12 air carriers in the nearest future. Who would believe that if they were finishing the Petr Velikij military ship which was about 75-80% built about 15 years ???

Yep one Tu-160 and three Su-34 is what the russian air force has taken in service in the last 14-15 years. They are moving very slowly. If they would build just one more Kuznetsov carrier it would take them about 20 years to construct all the aircraft to it

 

[Feanor]

Yep one Tu-160 and three Su-34 is what the russian air force has taken in service in the last 14-15 years. They are moving very slowly. If they would build just one more Kuznetsov carrier it would take them about 20 years to construct all the aircraft to it

Again you're completely ignoring the trends, on the extrapolation of which any potential revival of the Russian military is based. Given the financial crisis, and poor state of the defense industry, only time will tell whether it will happen (and there are major factors indicating that it might not), but instead of continuously repeating the same basic argument, you really need to learn from the information presented and move on. If you want to criticize the Russian defense establishment that's fine. But criticize it with valid points, instead of the same stuff that's been thoroughly refuted as a basis for future analysis.

 

[Wall83]

Well the trend is - nothing is happening year after year.
But yes, time will tell.

 

[Feanor]

Well the trend is - nothing is happening year after year.
But yes, time will tell.

No. The trend is a major slash in programs during the mid-late 90's. Some inertial cutting and reductions into the early 00's, with some new programs starting. Starting in ~2004 we see the re-opening of military procurement. The first T-90A units are delivered, and deliveries are continued all the way until 2008, increasing in size from first 1/2 btln a year, to one btln a year, to two bltn's as of this year. BTR production (most likely BTR-80A) is restarted, and this year 4 btlns worth of have been produced. In iirc 2006 BMP-3 production is restarted with a btln delivered annually since. The first S-400 btln is delivered in 2007, with two more allegedly this year. The Tu-160's modernization begins, and the first "new" (most likely partially made with parts left over from Soviet stocks) Tu-160 is delivered. Major shipbuilding programs have been restarted in the early-mid 00's, with the first ships being delivered last year, and this year.

Again we have a clear trend of revitalization. And while it may take 5-10 years for the trend to take off into a fullscale military re-armament, the extrapolation of the trend gives us the resurgent Russian Army that the newspapers are talking about. This is the last time I'm going to bother trying to lay this out for you (iirc I've argued with you before). There are similar trends visible in Russian development programs (BMD-4M, Su-34, Su-35BM). There are similar results for modernization of equipment, frequency and scale of training exercises (which in the short term are far more important to readyness rates and actual battlefield performance) etc. etc. etc.

This thread has gone far enough off topic. If you have anything of value to add to the possibility of the Su-34 serial production, information whether it has started or not to share, feel free to add. If you have valid arguments for or against the possibility of a Russian military revival feel free to do so in the appropriate thread in the General Defense forum.

 

[Haavarla]

Does it say how many others?

Nope, but it can't be more than 7 or 8 Su-34s.

As a side note;
Aircraft "48"(T10V-8) is the first model configured to meet the RuAF's revised specification requirements as defined in December 2003.
It's seen in a picture with the following wepon configuration, armed with two kh-31 Krypton anti-radiation/anti-ship missiles under the engine air intakes, a single Kh-59M Kingbolt stand-off missile on the centerline station, two R-27 Alamo under the wings, and a pair of R-73 Archer air-2-air on the wingtip stations.


One would think that some/several of the pre-series models of the Su-34s will enter RuAF service at some point, from side nr 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48 and the nr 01.

These Su-34s surely must have been under modernization program several times since their first flight, and probably one of the reason that they have stayed so long at the Akhtubinsk test centre.
When a aircraft get any upgrade in systems, engines and with new weapons aswell.. it's only logical that they undergo a test program..

Does any of this sound plausible?

 

[Feanor]

It does. Thank you. Do you think a production variant has been finalized? Or are further adjustments possible?

 

[Haavarla]

It does. Thank you. Do you think a production variant has been finalized? Or are further adjustments possible?

I would think so, if the next batch of 10 Su-34s are currently at the NAPO assembly-line. The Su-34s are rather expensive aircraft, så i doubt they can afford that many pre-production variants.

Further adjustments? I have little info, but production Fullbacks will be fitted with the uprated AL-31FM engine rating 144.5kN each.
A new Solluks podded thermal imaging, and targeting pod is currently being testet on the Pre-production Fullbacks.

"Pre-prod nr 44, 45 where equipped with the Leninets sH141 mission system including the V004 multi-function phased array radar. The planned V005 rearvard-facing radar has not been innstalled yet.
In 1999 these aircraft where fitted with the internal Platan TV-laser Search & Track targeting system and later the L175V Khibiny high-power stand-off jammer.

The Su-34 first exercise took placed in 2000, on the Ashuluk electronic warefare range in Southeast Russia, when it was tasked with providing protection against surface threats for a group of Su-24M bombers by using its Khibiny jammer!

Further updates to the avionics and weapons systems include replacing Argon-series main computer with a 32-bit open architecture BTsVM-386 digital computer."

As you can see, some of these systems are older technolegy like the Platan TV-laser search & tracing system.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are innstalled newer systems on the next batch of Fullbacks.

 

[nevidimka]

I would think so, if the next batch of 10 Su-34s are currently at the NAPO assembly-line. The Su-34s are rather expensive aircraft, så i doubt they can afford that many pre-production variants.

Further adjustments? I have little info, but production Fullbacks will be fitted with the uprated AL-31FM engine rating 144.5kN each.
A new Solluks podded thermal imaging, and targeting pod is currently being testet on the Pre-production Fullbacks.

"Pre-prod nr 44, 45 where equipped with the Leninets sH141 mission system including the V004 multi-function phased array radar. The planned V005 rearvard-facing radar has not been innstalled yet.
In 1999 these aircraft where fitted with the internal Platan TV-laser Search & Track targeting system and the L175V Khibiny high-power stand-off jammer.

The Su-34 first exercise took placed in 2000, on the Ashuluk electronic warefare range in Southeast Russia, when it was tasked with providing protection against surface threats for a group of Su-24M bombers by using its Khibiny jammer!

Further updates to the avionics and weapons systems include replacing Argon-series main computer with a 32-bit open architecture BTsVM-386 digital computer."

As you can see, some of these systems are older technolegy like the Platan TV-laser search & tracing system.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are innstalled newer systems on the next batch of Fullbacks.

Sollukcs Targetting pods? I thought we agreed earlier on reports that the Russia was planning on using Thales's Damocles pods instead of the native targetting pods due to the better performance of the Damocles?

And regarding the Khibiny jammer, is there any more info on this jammer? Is it a new type? Just meant for the fullbacks? Is it Podded?

 

[Haavarla]

Sollukcs Targetting pods? I thought we agreed earlier on reports that the Russia was planning on using Thales's Damocles pods instead of the native targetting pods due to the better performance of the Damocles?

And regarding the Khibiny jammer, is there any more info on this jammer? Is it a new type? Just meant for the fullbacks? Is it Podded?

The Thales's Damocles pods should prove to be good enough for the Su-34.
The only reason to develop a russian Sollukcs target pod or build a licence Thales Damocles thermal imaging and laser targeting pod, is better compability to HMS and such?

"The ventral electro-optical targeting system provides a limited capability and is only suitable for medium/high level deliveries, due to its limited field of regard.
It is likely to be soon supplemented by a licence built Thales Damocles thermal imaging and laser targeting pod. Russian sources claim that the Russian MoD licenced the pod design, expected to be built by the Ural Optical Mechanical Plant (UOMZ), after exposure to the design during the integration of the pod on the Malaysian Su-30MKM Flanker H. Future candidates for the pod, other than the Su-34, are the Su-35-1/35BM Flanker F, the Su-27SM/SMK Flanker B+ and upgraded Su-24M2 Fencer. The pylon installation, given hardware commonality between the SU-30MK and Su-34, is likely to be identical for both types.

It is not known whether the Su-34 will use the Shchel series helmet mounted display, or the Thales Topsight which has been integrated on the MiG-29K Fulcrum"

The Khibiny jammer is fairly new.
The Khibiny jammer is a high power jammer. KNIRTI Khibiny M Electronic Warfare Self Protection suite including the L175V jammer, an infrared MAWS system of undisclosed type, a threat warning and RF surveillance receiver of an unspecified type, and countermeasures dispensers.

Of more interest in the longer term is the proposed support jamming variant, discussed in the Indian and Russian trade press. This aircraft is a Russian analogue to the EF-111A or EF-18G Growler, designed as a fast support jammer for escort and standoff jamming. The podded L175V / KS418 high power jammer is being developed for this purpose, it being an analogue to the US ALQ-99 jamming pods on the EA-6B and EF-18G. The KS418 is believed to be related closely to the TsNIRTI MSP-418K support jamming pod, claimed to be designed around a DRFM (Digital RF Memory) jamming techniques generator.

The Su-35BM is slated to get the same Jammer system, well almost the same;
The podded L175V vs L-175M Khibiny-M.


"The Su-35BM is also to receive a totally new self-protection system. It was developed by KNIRTI (Zhukov near Kaluga, Russia) and is designated the L-175M Khibiny-M. It has an integrated electronic-support-measures system of high accuracy, a separate display in the cockpit, a digital processor, and an integrated active radio-frequency jammer with pods on the wingtips."

 

[tphuang]

it kind of makes me wonder if they are actually going to go ahead to buy su-35 and su-34 at the same time. su-34 finally gives Russia the equivalent of a F-15E (su-30s certainly don't compare to F-15E variants in any way regardless of the promotion)

Does anyone have a summary of the different PGM and targeting pod programs by Russian companies?

 

[Feanor]

it kind of makes me wonder if they are actually going to go ahead to buy su-35 and su-34 at the same time. su-34 finally gives Russia the equivalent of a F-15E (su-30s certainly don't compare to F-15E variants in any way regardless of the promotion)

Does anyone have a summary of the different PGM and targeting pod programs by Russian companies?

The Su-35BM will (officially) be procured only in 2-3 regiments. Rumors of an SM2 upgrade for the existing Flankers based on the 35BM are circulating on the web in particular. The Su-34 on the other hand is needed in large quantities if it's replacing the Su-24M and M2. Ultimately a 5th gen. replacement is needed for them, so I guess time will tell how major the Su-34 is, however I suspect it will (at least in the long run) end up a large program.

 

[Haavarla]

it kind of makes me wonder if they are actually going to go ahead to buy su-35 and su-34 at the same time. su-34 finally gives Russia the equivalent of a F-15E (su-30s certainly don't compare to F-15E variants in any way regardless of the promotion)

Does anyone have a summary of the different PGM and targeting pod programs by Russian companies?

On the targeting pod, I found this:

http://www.uomz.ru/eng/index.php?page=products&pid=100065


I'm not sure i follow you on the,
"su-34 finally gives Russia the equivalent of a F-15E (su-30s certainly don't compare to F-15E variants in any way regardless of the promotion)"

Care to elaborate on this statement?

 

[nevidimka]

Nice find Havaarla. The pod does look interesting, although I dont understand why the window is separated into 2 parts?

And Su 34 is not an equivalent to the F 15 E. It is a better tactical strike aircraft compared to the F 15E, itself trying to take over the role of the veteren F111.

 

[Haavarla]

Nice find Havaarla. The pod does look interesting, although I dont understand why the window is separated into 2 parts?

And Su 34 is not an equivalent to the F 15 E. It is a better tactical strike aircraft compared to the F 15E, itself trying to take over the role of the veteren F111.

Yes interesting indeed, plz try to dig around in the ru. web about this pod


And Su-30Mk/Su-34/F-15E has a significant production date difference..

Yeah well.. in the future i'll try to stay away from putting aircraft up against each other or comparing. Been there, done that It isn't very useful in term of learning about aviation.
It's a very combustible topic too: