I'm saying that everything APA puts out is suspect and generally disregarded as rubbish. Their main goal is to re-engine and upgrade the F-111's (which the people who run APA will profit from) and have Australia buy F-22 and they've distorted data and flat out lied in every "report" they have put out to try to accomplish that goal.
Su-34 Completes Testing
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
Why .... I find guys to be realistic to say at least ... whats wrong with their analisis or wishfor Australia to have F-22 insted F-35?
Grand Danois
Entertainer
This is what's wrong: http://www.williamsfoundation.org.au/research/download/air-combat-capability.pdf
It's a direct rebuttal to APA though they're not mentioned. Note the operational experience behind it:
* Air Marshal E.J. McCormack AO (Retd) (Chair)
* Dr Alan Stephens OAM (Deputy Chair)
* Air Marshal I.B. Gration AO AFC (Retd)
* Rear Admiral R. Gates AO CSM RAN (Retd)
* Air Vice-Marshal J. Blackburn AO (Retd)
* Air Vice-Marshal B. O'Loghlin AO (Retd)
* Air Vice-Marshal R.K. McLennan AO (Retd)
* Major General I. Gordon AO (Retd)
* Wing Commander L.J. Halvorson MBE (Retd) (Exec Off)
As opposed to a couple of guys working out of a cellar.
This without even touching the topic of erroneous methodologies in some of their scientific approaches.
Haavarla
Active Member
Nothing wrong with whisihing for F-22A, but it's never gonna happen
Not all of the material are bogus, but there's a lot of authors self invented spec for Flanker Radar and missile capabilities that Dr copp simply do not have..
It is Russian mil secrets if you like..
Most of the sources he use are easy to get for everybody, so how he can throw up all those diagrams and fancy comparisons and defend them?
I just don't know:unknown
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And with Lockheed Martin as one of the major sponsors of the Williams foundation they are probably not biased at all...
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Except that no one has touched the substance of what they are actually writing and no one has questioned their credentials, experience and authority on the matter.
All I hear is that last ditch argument of the character assasination.
These guys knows stuff.
The APA guys have close to zero experience at a practical or theoretical level on what air power is and will be.
Well I have read pdf and was quite informative for me .. tnx ... but still I chose not to accept its opinion for number of reasons ... with all respect to those Marshals etc ....
I read APA ... and althrow I like its analisis dont belive or take serious or read everything he wrote ... but with some I share its comon belif.
But no matter his standing towards F-35 etc I think APA is a great database ...
I mean look at the SAMs/Flankers/munition comparison etc ... there may be some mistakes but generaly I find it correct ...
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Well, they are excellent for a screen scrape, i.e. they do collate a lot of material - it's just has to be taken with a bit larger pinch of salt than with most other things.
Just to be pre-emptive: Besides the maint record of the Su-xx, it's the fallacious premise that APA advocates, that China, Indonesia or India will swarm "the Gap" with Super Flanker +++ and supersonic bombers they're highlighting, I don't think they're out to bunk the Flanker per se.
The Air Marshalls etc. are pointing out that air power is a system and that the APA "analyses" is one-dimensional, i.e. fan boyistic in nature.
Im to tired to reply in detail but in general I know what you want to say agree with you . ..
but ... I still have to say its a say thing US is shuting down F-22 production and deciding to to eyport it to its alies .. I was always biger fan of making multirole plane out of air-superiority than strike primary ...
On their Flanker page they have this picture and quote.
http://www.ausairpower.net/000-F-14A-Iran-Soviet-1.jpg
Too bad that picture is a well known fake.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&d=1209867918
It is also too bad there is NO evidence that Iran ever handed over any of its F-14's to the Russians, nor is it likely they let the Russian's even do any tests in Iran.
Haavarla
Active Member
Yeah, i think it's pretty clear that Russia don't want to sell any more "Blueprints to China" anymore
It looks like the negotioation of the Su-33 are dead per say..
Thanks
US exporting their F-22 to their allies? To whom? When and do you have a source?
Haavarla
Active Member
Never mind Marc
Lets keep this a Flanker tread plz.
Being a striker.
How well will the V004 passive electronically scanned array radar function against air targets?
Is the Su-34 dependend on Su-27 escort?
The big stinger back on the Su-34 contains a powerfull stand alone jammer and not a small radar as earlier claimed.
How effective would this be against air threats?
Thanks
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Scorpion82
New Member
Wasn't this thread about the Su-34? So could we keep it there and not another "APA bla bla" thread?
Is it known if the V005 rearwards facing radar has been completely eliminated or will there be variants with EW equipment and variants with radar in the tailboom?
Is it known if the V005 rearwards facing radar has been completely eliminated or will there be variants with EW equipment and variants with radar in the tailboom?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #97
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Two more Su-34s are being transferred to VVS control at Lipetsk, on december 19th bringing the number in the VVS up to 4.
Two more Su-34s are being transferred to VVS control at Lipetsk, on december 19th bringing the number in the VVS up to 4.
Haavarla
Active Member
21.12.2009 Sukhoi hands over Su-34 bombers to Russian Air Force
December 21, 2009, Moscow. V.P.Chkalov Novosibirsk Aircraft Production Association (NAPO) handed over to the Russian AF two batch-production Su-34 frontline fighter-bombers produced in the framework of the national defense order for 2009. The planes have already arrived to the Russian AF Lipetsk Center for Combat Use and Flight Training. In accordance with the 5-year state contract with the Ministry of Defense signed in 2008, NAPO will produce 32 Su-34 fighter-bombers till 2013.
This December NAPO has also fulfilled its obligations under 3-year state contract by handing over to the Russian AF the final batch of Su-24M2 bombers after repair and modernization.
The two-seat Su-34 fighter-bomber is designed to deliver high-precision strikes on heavily defended air, ground and naval targets (including small and mobile targets) on solo and group missions in any weather conditions, day or night, as well as for air reconnaissance.
Su-34 belongs to the 4 + generation of aircraft by its combat capabilities. Active security systems as well as modern computers allow pilot-commander and navigator/operator of weapons to deliver precise strikes on targets and make maneuvers under hostile fire.
The main distinctive features of the fighter-bomber are:
- large ordnance load and a broad line-up of guided air-launched weapons,
- high load capabilities engineered through reinforced design of the airframe and landing gear, and increased fuel tanks,
- effective digitally-controlled twin afterburning turbojet engines,
- in-flight refueling capability,
- advanced avionics line-up, including multi-purpose PAA radar, onboard optical search and track station and an integrated defensive aids suite.
Su-34 can engage in long-range combat missions close to ranges of medium strategic bombers.
Sukhoi Company (JSC) - News - News
December 21, 2009, Moscow. V.P.Chkalov Novosibirsk Aircraft Production Association (NAPO) handed over to the Russian AF two batch-production Su-34 frontline fighter-bombers produced in the framework of the national defense order for 2009. The planes have already arrived to the Russian AF Lipetsk Center for Combat Use and Flight Training. In accordance with the 5-year state contract with the Ministry of Defense signed in 2008, NAPO will produce 32 Su-34 fighter-bombers till 2013.
This December NAPO has also fulfilled its obligations under 3-year state contract by handing over to the Russian AF the final batch of Su-24M2 bombers after repair and modernization.
The two-seat Su-34 fighter-bomber is designed to deliver high-precision strikes on heavily defended air, ground and naval targets (including small and mobile targets) on solo and group missions in any weather conditions, day or night, as well as for air reconnaissance.
Su-34 belongs to the 4 + generation of aircraft by its combat capabilities. Active security systems as well as modern computers allow pilot-commander and navigator/operator of weapons to deliver precise strikes on targets and make maneuvers under hostile fire.
The main distinctive features of the fighter-bomber are:
- large ordnance load and a broad line-up of guided air-launched weapons,
- high load capabilities engineered through reinforced design of the airframe and landing gear, and increased fuel tanks,
- effective digitally-controlled twin afterburning turbojet engines,
- in-flight refueling capability,
- advanced avionics line-up, including multi-purpose PAA radar, onboard optical search and track station and an integrated defensive aids suite.
Su-34 can engage in long-range combat missions close to ranges of medium strategic bombers.
Sukhoi Company (JSC) - News - News