Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone

[Stryker001]

That's not what he said. According to the CNN transcript, he said something more along the lines of "If nobody wants to talk with us on these issues and cooperation with Russia is unnecessary then God Bless do this work yourself".

This is what he said according to CNN. He makes clear in the interview that Russia was still willing to cooperate with the US when it come to issues like Iran. He also said the EU was being pressured by the US into putting sanctions on Moscow.

Russia does not want war, that is very clear. They are not the aggressor in this conflict, the western media is very adapt and creating demons so the public will support war. Look at the fallout after the way the lead up to Iraq was reported via the western media, making that same mistake again.

I agree that it was paraphrased this is off the Government site which has the CNN transcript.

V. PUTIN: Russia is consistently and conscientiously working with its partners on all issues - and which I described, and you have now added.

И не потому, что нас кто-то об этом просит, а мы хотим хорошо в чьих-то глазах выглядеть.​

And not because of us someone asked about this, and we wish well in whose eyes look like something.

Мы делаем это потому, что это соответствует нашим национальным интересам, что в этих областях наши национальные интересы и со многими европейскими странами, и с Соединенными Штатами совпадают.​

We do this because this is consistent with our national interest that these areas of our national interests and with many European countries, and coincide with the United States.

Если с нами никто не захочет разговаривать по этим вопросам и сотрудничество с Россией будет не нужно - ну ради Бога, сами работайте тогда.​

If we have no one wants to talk on these issues and cooperation with Russia will not need to - well sake of God, then work themselves.

 

[Stryker001]

Putin may say he does not want a buffer Ukranian territory up to Odessa and most probably, he does not. After Russia did not start the war.

However there would be some military advisers say that now we have control of the flank and created a buffer zone. Russia needs to break the encirclement by annexing a portion of the Ukraine controlling the coast up to Odessa. That with the ability to keep the remaining Russia territories from claim independence would see a peaceful Europe. Regardless of the Iranian nuclear program, any NATO forces in Georgia, Azerbaidzan or Armenia is caught in a pintzer movement, if you lose control of the Black Sea.

All the proposed sites for possible Russian bases except Cuba and one behind Guam have the one thing in common, Venezuela the Panama Canal, Algeria entry to the Mediterranean, Syria, even the Gulf of Oman the Suez Canal.
www.csbaonline.org/4Publications/PubLibrary/H.19971100.Navy_Strike_Operat/H.19971100.Navy_Strike_Operat.php
http://hormuz.robertstrausscenter.org/security

 

[nevidimka]

Russia 'could destroy NATO ships in Balck sea within 20 minutes'

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080829/116377956.html

 

[2S1]

Russia 'could destroy NATO ships in Balck sea within 20 minutes'

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080829/116377956.html

Is this not more political/nationalistic rubbish that this webiste has rules about?

'A Former Commander said...'! It's tabloid press!!

 

[Feanor]

Well it's technically true, provided Russia was willing to use the strategic airforce, and nuclear weapons, the operation overall wouldn't take more then 20 minutes from take off of the Russian bombers, to detonation of the warheads on the NATO ships. It's just a matter of realism of the scenario.

EDIT: And a casualty chart published by kp.ru along with criticism of the poor state of the Russian military. Here's a translation and the link.

Soldier killed/wounded: Georgia 380/750, S. Ossetia 70/300, Russia 64/370, tanks destroyed Georgia 37 (and 40 captured), S. Ossetia 5, Russia 2, light armor destroyed Georgia 85 (and 60 captured), S. Ossetia 12, Russia 10, airplanes Georgia 12, S. Ossetia 0 (doesn't have any), Russia 4, helicopters Georgia 38, S. Ossetia 1, Russia 5, SAMs Georgia 32, S. Ossetia 4, Russia 2, artillery Georgia 240, S. Ossetia 14, Russia 6, cars/trucks Georgia 85 (and 40 captured), S. Ossetia 17, Russia 12.

http://www.kp.ru/daily/24152/368191/

EDIT2: French Ministry of Foreign Affairs denies pushing for sanctions against Russia, as does Germany, Spain, and Italy. The Polish Foreign Minster Donald Tusk is at odds with the Polish president over the issue of sanctions against Russia.

A major opposition leader in Ingushetiya was killed by Russian police recently, which sparked Ingushetian opposition to demand that the region receive independence. While this isn't likely to happen and the opposition is weak, the situation is still rather unpleasant.

Finally Georgian media reports that the attack on Ts'hinvali was undertaken in response to Russian tanks crossing the border rather then the other way around, with the sattelite date received from the USA. Georgian forces acted to prevent Russian troops from entering, they claim.

 

[nevidimka]

Well it's technically true, provided Russia was willing to use the strategic airforce, and nuclear weapons, the operation overall wouldn't take more then 20 minutes from take off of the Russian bombers, to detonation of the warheads on the NATO ships. It's just a matter of realism of the scenario.

EDIT: And a casualty chart published by kp.ru along with criticism of the poor state of the Russian military. Here's a translation and the link.

Soldier killed/wounded: Georgia 380/750, S. Ossetia 70/300, Russia 64/370, tanks destroyed Georgia 37 (and 40 captured), S. Ossetia 5, Russia 2, light armor destroyed Georgia 85 (and 60 captured), S. Ossetia 12, Russia 10, airplanes Georgia 12, S. Ossetia 0 (doesn't have any), Russia 4, helicopters Georgia 38, S. Ossetia 1, Russia 5, SAMs Georgia 32, S. Ossetia 4, Russia 2, artillery Georgia 240, S. Ossetia 14, Russia 6, cars/trucks Georgia 85 (and 40 captured), S. Ossetia 17, Russia 12.

http://www.kp.ru/daily/24152/368191/

EDIT2: French Ministry of Foreign Affairs denies pushing for sanctions against Russia, as does Germany, Spain, and Italy. The Polish Foreign Minster Donald Tusk is at odds with the Polish president over the issue of sanctions against Russia.

A major opposition leader in Ingushetiya was killed by Russian police recently, which sparked Ingushetian opposition to demand that the region receive independence. While this isn't likely to happen and the opposition is weak, the situation is still rather unpleasant.

Finally Georgian media reports that the attack on Ts'hinvali was undertaken in response to Russian tanks crossing the border rather then the other way around, with the sattelite date received from the USA. Georgian forces acted to prevent Russian troops from entering, they claim.

I dont think he ment use of nuclear wapons, but just the ASM from the Slava cruiser.

Also Georgian side have twisted n turned the event soo much to make themselves look like the victims so I'm not surprised, but its getting really stupid. So I wont wanna give much importance to what they said.

 

[Stryker001]

I don't know if this fits in with this thread, I tried to find one but they are all closed. Due to the current climate, I would believe that Russia would be looking for 8 aircraft carriers.

Hypothetically of course as they cannot cost the current number of 5 to 6 right according to some people. via private business persons they could cost at least 12.

 

[Feanor]

There is a thread on Russian aircraft carriers in the Navy forum. That's where this belongs.

 

[Firehorse]

Russia Claims Its Sphere of Influence in the World
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/world/europe/01russia.html?th&emc=th

The "Medvedev Doctrine" is announced! Official Kiev has been put on notice- Ukraine has the largest Russian population outside of Russia, and occipies strategic real estate.

Ethnic groups:
Ukrainian 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, ..
Languages:
Ukrainian (official) 67%, Russian 24%, ..
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/up.html

Ukraine also hosted several radar stations on the former Soviet periphery. In Mukachevo, near the Slovakian border, a Dnepr-M radar station entered service in 1979. A second Dnepr radar system entered service in Sevastopol on the Black Sea that same year. The post-Cold War Russian air defense forces have continued to rely upon these sites for aerial coverage but shaky relations between Ukraine and Russia have meant that the transmission of data, forwarded by Ukrainians, has never been completely satisfactory for the Russians. Moscow currently pays 1.3 - 1.5 million USD to rent these sites from Ukraine.
Should Moscow lose all access to the sites [already a fact], Russia would suffer a drastic decline in airspace coverage over southwest Europe and the Mediterranean Sea. Strategic warning systems would also be affected by this potential further reduction in Russia's airspace perimeter, according to former Russian space and missile defense commander Col. Gen. Volter Kraskovski. ..
http://www.sras.org/russia__s_shrunken_air_defense_perimeter

One of them- Dnepr- is in Sevastopol.

The Russian military establishment is taking very seriously the possibility that strongly pro-American Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko could dramatically tilt the balance of global strategic power by giving the United States an advance radar base in the historic former Russian naval fortress of Sevastopol on the Black Sea.
An article published in the Moscow newspaper Nezavisimaya Gazeta Monday cited several military sources indicating that Ukraine was willing to give U.S. experts access to its early-warning radar facilities in Sevastopol and Mukachevo in western Ukraine.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-12024267_ITM

Ukraine offers West radar warning
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7566070.stm

This Ukrainian offer is mainly symbolic. The Dnepr type early warning radars in Mukachevo and Sevastopol are 1970s era technology. Russia is building a new early warning radar network, on its own territory, using cheaper (to build and operate) modern technology. Besides, the old Soviet radars are pointing the wrong way (towards the west). However, the radars do show any ballistic missile activity in North Africa, and can be used to track aircraft. The offer was made largely to annoy the Russians, and to try and get NATO to let Ukraine join. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hticbm/articles/20080818.aspx

IMO, those radars, once upgraded, & in Russian hands, can monitor W. Europe, as well as Black and Med. Seas for Western missiles & aircraft, thus improving their air defenses. Lastly, they could also get their hands on Kolchuga (if that hadn't happened yet)!
http://www.rense.com/general73/detect.htm

 

[Grand Danois]

Lastly, they could also get their hands on Kolchuga (if that hadn't happened yet)!
http://www.rense.com/general73/detect.htm

Møhøhøh! Rense.com...

Anyhow Russia has radars looking deep into Europe - they don't need Ukraine for that.

Google the Voronezh radar near Skt. Petersburg and Estonia - it's similar to the HAVE STARE that is to be built in the Czech Republic. Note when it was built, and also note that no one made a fuss about it in the West.

Cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Btw, per the Medvedev Doctrine, Medvedev should shoot Putin since Putin has killed 500 times as many Russian citizens as Saakashvili has. Or go for a regime change (well, technically Medvedev did that replacing Putin as Russian prez... just not sure it counts).



(My apologies, I just couldn't resist the absurdity.)

 

[Firehorse]

But the point is, those Ukranian radars, once under NATO control, coud be used to watch Russia.

Btw, per the Medvedev Doctrine, Medvedev should shoot Putin since Putin has killed 500 times as many Russian citizens as Saakashvili has. Or go for a regime change (well, technically Medvedev did that replacing Putin as Russian prez... just not sure it counts).


(My apologies, I just couldn't resist the absurdity.)

If Putin can shoot a tiger, sure he can shoot a bear ("medved" is the Russian for bear)!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103ap_russia_putin_and_the_tiger.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4676740a23881.html

 

[Grand Danois]

If Putin can shoot a tiger, sure he can shoot a bear ("medved" is the Russian for bear)!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103ap_russia_putin_and_the_tiger.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4676740a23881.html

Nah. It was only a tranquilizer dart.

Hunting dangerous animals used to be the hallmark of aristocracy.

 

[Grand Danois]

But the point is, those Ukranian radars, once under NATO control, coud be used to watch Russia.
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The Ukrainian radars are useless. The offer is for show.

 

[Feanor]

Not only that but Russia has already refused to prolong the rent agreement. A new radar of the Voronezh-DM class is entering service this year in the Krasnodar region. That covers the south-western direction of the Ukranian radars, and the Belarussian radar compelted in irrc 2003 covers the western direction.

 

[Grand Danois]

Not only that but Russia has already refused to prolong the rent agreement. A new radar of the Voronezh-DM class is entering service this year in the Krasnodar region. That covers the south-western direction of the Ukranian radars, and the Belarussian radar compelted in irrc 2003 covers the western direction.

Couldn't remember where the other one was located - Krasnodar it is. But that is not right next to W Europe.

 

[Firehorse]

Even if what Ukraine offered is useless, The US may counteroffer to upgrade them or build their own to augment those in Czhech Republic and elsewhere, IMHO.

 

[Grand Danois]

Even if what Ukraine offered is useless, The US may counteroffer to upgrade them or build their own to augment those in Czhech Republic and elsewhere, IMHO.

But they won't. And they don't need them.

They where even reluctant to station Patriots in Poland as the Poles wished. That was in order not to step on Russian toes.

Just as they declined to sell JASSM to Finland in order not to annoy the Russians.

 

[Ths]

Why??

I'm still wondering, why Russia has entered into this strange policy?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the repercussions. They would be negative - no matter what.

There are facile explanations; but they don't cut in my opinion.

The only factor I can come up with - an it is not top shelve quality - is:

In the event of the Russian Black Sea Fleet being thrown out of Sevastopol, where is it to go?

 

[Sampanviking]

I'm still wondering, why Russia has entered into this strange policy?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the repercussions. They would be negative - no matter what.

There are facile explanations; but they don't cut in my opinion.

The only factor I can come up with - an it is not top shelve quality - is:

In the event of the Russian Black Sea Fleet being thrown out of Sevastopol, where is it to go?

Well seeing as how Russia has just acquired two very good, top quality Black Sea ports in Poti & Sukhumi..............

As to the strange policy, well if Russia were to allow the continued Eastward expansion of NATO through the Georgian doorway through to Armenia and hence over the water to Kazakhstan. Russia would lose its Politicla leverage, its status as a Black Sea power and thus any influence in the Med and; more crucially, the Middle East.

Pretty Sum Zero stuff would'nt you say?