Royal New Zealand Air Force

[Sea Toby]

I was under the impression the Seasprites would stay in Auckland close to the ships either where they are or at the international airport. Thus no need to have a larger helicopter hangar at the other air base.

 

[dave_kiwi]

More RNZAF Aircraft Updates

From the RNZAF March / April Edition (On-line) of 'Airforce News'

http://www.airforce.mil.nz/operations/airforce-news/90/aircraft-updates.htm

More info on the 757 / C-130H /P3-K2 & NHN-90

interesting bit re NHN-90:

The first TNZA is scheduled to be delivered to the Crown in France in late 2009 and, in order to meet production schedules, the PCs have already begun manufacturing the TNZA fuselage modules. Once completed, the modules will be transported to Marignane for fuselage mating (circa April 2008) and for subsequent component and systems integration, testing and qualification prior to the delivery of the prototype aircraft.

first flight scheduled for JAN 2009 ... getting closer

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I think they sould put some weapons on the RNZAF NH-90s such as .30 cal machine guns(I think they already do), .50 cals, rockets and anti-tank missiles. That would be awesome!

 

[htbrst]

German skies beckon to pilots

RE the T/LUH -
I've heard rumblings that all training on the NH-90 could be outsourced and conducted in Germany long-term (i.e. not just for initial/conversion training). ...
Keeping this in mind, this could reduce the numbers of T/LUH which are required by the RNZAF. The number crunching and behind-the-scenes discussion regarding this may be a reason its taking so long to announce a winner.

There is even a possibility a RNZAF airframe may stay put in Germany to assist this training.

Todays Manawatu Standard has the following article:

German skies beckon to pilots
By CHRISTIAN BONNEVIE - Manawatu Standard | Thursday, 10 April 2008

Kiwis could soon take to German skies under a two-way training scheme the Air Force hopes will help to avoid costly teething problems with the $700 million NH90 helicopter fleet, due at Ohakea in 2010.

Three senior German air force officers have been visiting Ohakea this week to discuss the plan, which, if approved, will see a pilot and crewman sent to the Buckeburg base for a two-year stint starting next year.

The former will work as an instructor with the EC135 helicopter fleet and the other on the NH90....​

(Full article at stuff.co.nz/manawatustandard/4473586a6502.html)

Looks like this is part of the initial training phase, but could this turn into something more given the low numbers of A109's eventually ordered ?

 

[recce.k1]

Perhaps I shouldn't have been so pessimistic when you first floated that idea. Very interesting article there, and at least we will be able to draw upon the experience of the Germans over there which will be very positive for NZ (and no doubt get opportunities to interact with other Euro nations undergoing NH90 conversion and support etc).

Any thoughts yourself there htbrst on the issue? Anyone else with an opinion (I seen to be one of the few kiwis posting at the moment)? What happenned to Marcus40, he always had some interesting things to say about aviation matters?

 

[RubiconNZ]

Perhaps I shouldn't have been so pessimistic when you first floated that idea. Very interesting article there, and at least we will be able to draw upon the experience of the Germans over there which will be very positive for NZ (and no doubt get opportunities to interact with other Euro nations undergoing NH90 conversion and support etc).

Any thoughts yourself there htbrst on the issue? Anyone else with an opinion (I seen to be one of the few kiwis posting at the moment)? What happened to Marcus40, he always had some interesting things to say about aviation matters?

Depending on the details I like the idea, by outsourcing training this would lead to a higher availability of the LUH, which certainly be good news in for the NZDF. I would question why Germany with Australia being so close, however the inter service co-operation with Germany would have some fantastic benefits for NZ

 

[Sea Toby]

Unfortunately, the Irish and British aren't buying NH-90s. But I am sure, with just a short flight, or a ferry ride, many of the Kiwis sent over will take the opportunity to see the land of Shakespeare and Yeats.

Then again, I love Bavaria, and Munich. Many lucky men of the Air Force will have the opportunity to see Europe.

 

[Gibbo]

Depending on the details I like the idea, by outsourcing training this would lead to a higher availability of the LUH, which certainly be good news in for the NZDF. I would question why Germany with Australia being so close, however the inter service co-operation with Germany would have some fantastic benefits for NZ

Yep totally agree - this is a fantastic approach to dealing with what is going to be a huge learning curve - full marks to NZDF for thinking outside the square & being proactive.

I think we'll see the same done with ADF as well but on a more informal basis given the close-knit relationship we have. Plus the Germans are far more advanced with the type than the ADF so arguably we have more to learn from them.

If we see many issues with NH-90's here after 2010 then I think we'll definitely see a few more LUH bought.

 

[htbrst]

this is a fantastic approach to dealing with what is going to be a huge learning curve - full marks to NZDF for thinking outside the square & being proactive.

Totally agree, it also can't hurt to build more solid relationships with other countries using similar kit (in this case NH90, Iroquois and Orions)...such a relationship may also prove useful should we eventually go for the A400M :

Interesting perhaps that we are playing with Germany rather then France given France is where final assembly is taken place - and hence where the MOD project team is located.

News today also about the Kingairs:

New Zealand extends King Air B200 lease after delay in advanced trainers tender By Siva Govindasamy

(flightglobal.com/articles/2008/04/14/222888/new-zealand-extends-king-air-b200-lease-after-delay-in-advanced-trainers.html)

Delays in the formulation of a tender for advanced trainers have led to the Royal New Zealand Air Force extending a lease on five Beechcraft King Air B200s by a year.

"The request for proposals for new advanced trainers is being worked on right now, but there is a slight delay in getting it processed," says the country's defence ministry, adding: "it is now likely to come out in 2009. As a result, the lease on the King Air B200s will be extended by a year...."​

Does anyone know when does the lease expire? This may have additional advantages as it gives more time for the glass cockpits on some of the options to mature a little more...It also pushes the release of the RFP to post-election time.

 

[dave_kiwi]

RNZAF B757 News

From the NZ DEF Web site:

...the first of two aircraft (NZ7571) has completed successful test flights at Mobile Aerospace Engineering in Mobile, Alabama.

Full article here:

http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/20080627-afb757ftf.htm

Also, from memory, in the latest Airforce News, the first C-130H is due back in NZ in two to three months.

Also see the following - 3 SQN deploying to HMNZ Canterbury - wonder if the rotors removed or not .

http://www.airforce.mil.nz/operations/airforce-news/92/timely-test-no3-sqn.htm

 

[Tasman]

From the NZ DEF Web site:



Full article here:

http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/20080627-afb757ftf.htm

Also, from memory, in the latest Airforce News, the first C-130H is due back in NZ in two to three months.

Also see the following - 3 SQN deploying to HMNZ Canterbury - wonder if the rotors removed or not .

http://www.airforce.mil.nz/operations/airforce-news/92/timely-test-no3-sqn.htm

Interesting link. I was also interested re the fitting of the MAG-58 MG to the Seasprites.

Inter service operability is very important in the kind of 'police actions' that the NZDF may well find itself involved in in the Pacific and the operation of the Iroquois from Canterbury will have provided useful lead up training pending the arrival of the NH-90.

Tas

 

[dave_kiwi]

RNZAF - NH90 News

My day for trolling through NZ Defence sites.

From the Beehive.Gov.Nz site - Minister of Defence:

Defence Minister Phil Goff has welcomed the completion of the initial stage of the construction of New Zealand’s first NH90 helicopter being built in France.

Full article here:

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/goff+welcomes+progress+air+force+helicopters

It has been mentioned numerous times about the long lead time before delivery ... perhaps this explains it:

The helicopter, which is the first of eight being built for the Royal New Zealand Air Force, will be ready for its test flight in about five months. It will then take a year for it to receive formal qualification

Not sure why it would need a year .. but it does tie up for a 2010 delivery date

 

[recce.k1]

Some news on the new helicopter hangers & AM terminal

Big dig gets under way as base readies for choppers
By Jonathon Howe
[email protected]
Manawatu Standard 14 July 2008

Initial earthworks have begun on the $129m development at the Ohakea Air Force Base.

The development, which will cover an area of 11,000 square metres, includes the construction of two large helicopter hangers, office accommodation, a simulator building and storage facilities.

The hangers will house 13 new helicopters, including eight NH90 and five A109.

Squadron Leader Paul Robertson said construction of the hangers would hopefully begin later this year.

"These earthworks are just in the preparation stages as the building are currently under design. At this stage we are looking at two large buildings and three or four smaller ones."

The hangers would be good for both the community and the air force, he said.

"It certainly will benefit the economy, given the amount of money, but it's all based on what we need to do.

We need the hangers because of the rotor blades on the new helicopters."

"The current Iroquois helicopters only have two blades. The new ones are four bladed, so you can't park them right next to each other."

The two fleets of helicopters, valued at $900m, are expected to arrive at Ohakea in 2010. Earthworks for the upgrade to Ohakea's C taxiway began in December, with the hanger earthworks being done at the same time.

The development also features the construction of an air movements terminal which will be used for deployments and cargo handling.

The old museum building, which closed in May last year, has yet to be demolished.

But the earthworks were starting to encroach on the building, Mr Robertson said.

The Ohakea Visitors' Centre Trust was set up in January to create a centre, similar to the museum, which would attract people with an interest in aviation. The trust members consist of Destination Manawatu chief executive Kathy Gibson, Opus Consultant manager Guy Dennis, Bulls farmer Hew Dalrymple, and Ohakea Base commander Russel Mardon. Mr Dennis said the trust was investigating the feasibility of several site options.

 

[Sea Toby]

To house the NH-90's and the A-109s on the Canterbury, I would have thought the rotor blades would have folding blades. Without folding blades, to fit them in the ship's hangar, it will be necessary to remove the blades. Obviously, the air force chose not to bother, but if they are going to be used at sea, surely folding blades would have better.

 

[jaffo4011]

off topic, i realize but how exactly does new zealand propose to defend its interests in the event of a conflict???

im obviously talking about its air defence here and protection of its ground and sea resources.

would it rely on australias or the u.s's assistance or hope to call on the uk's future carriers?

 

[simdude97]

hope to call on the uk's future carriers? (in view of its current ties with the uk and the fact that it was the only colony to offer any useful form os assistance in the falklands conflict).

Hmmm what do you call Phalanx, AIM-9L and access to satellite imagery?

 

[jaffo4011]

Hmmm what do you call Phalanx, AIM-9L and access to satellite imagery?

im aware of the u.s's contribution to the flklands conflict but as far as i am aware the u.s hasnt been a colony of the united kingdom for several hundred years now.....unlike australia,canada and new zealand which still have the queen as their head of state :

anyho thats not what i am enquiring about in this thread....how would the kiwis defend their airspace??

 

[Sea Toby]

off topic, i realize but how exactly does new zealand propose to defend its interests in the event of a conflict???

im obviously talking about its air defence here and protection of its ground and sea resources.

would it rely on australias or the u.s's assistance or hope to call on the uk's future carriers? (in view of its current ties with the uk and the fact that it was the only colony to offer any useful form os assistance in the falklands conflict).

Currently the only air defense lies on the navy's Sea Sparrow and the army's Mistral missies. The air force's air combat group, the A-4s and AB.339s are awaiting a sale approval by the US to a US private pilot training company. Currently both aircraft are in storage in New Zealand.

As I recall the previous government's acquisition of cream puff F-16s was cancelled. In a review of their acquisition, retaining the air combat force was questioned. It seems the range of fighter aircraft from New Zealand doesn't reach the shores of another country. Or vice a versa. Well the Australian F-111s might, I'm not sure they could return to Australia without refueling.

Remember the Blackbuck missions of the Vulcan bombers during the Falklands required several tankers? Outside of the US and Australia, I do not believe any of the surrounding nations of New Zealand have this capability. Outside of the US, UK, France, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Russia, and India, not many nations have aircraft carriers. As for future Chinese carrier possibilites, New Zealand recently signed a free trade treaty. Frankly, the Kiwis don't consider any of these nations belligerent.

Thus, the air force's air combat group was disbanded. Maintaining this force consumed over $70 million annually. When this decision was made several years ago, a barrel of oil ran around $30, today its $130+, easily four times as much. Shutting down this force allowed the government to provide and maintain other pressing needs: new army vehicles, patrol and transport aircraft, and the navy's new MRV and patrol ships. The real threat of illegal fishing and the need to patrol New Zealand's EEZ was and is still considered more important.

 

[Sea Toby]

New Zealand is a small nation with a very large EEZ with few people, around 4 million. Luckily, they are distant from most nations, and the nations nearby are friendly.

New Zealand has defense arrangement with Australia, the Anzac Pact, along with a Five Powers arrangement including Australia, United Kingdom, Singapore, and Malaysia. New Zealand has defense commitments with a few of the Pacific island states, former New Zealand dependencies.

Most likely any outside aggressor would most likely offend other nations nearby, New Zealand would not be alone. Australia and New Zealand would most likely operate in concert, along with the Five Powers and Pacific Forum states. France has dependencies in the South Pacific as well. While the US has dropped New Zealand from the Anzus Pact, the US is still friends with New Zealand. Australia and the US still maintains the defense cooperation treaty.

 

[jaffo4011]

New Zealand is a small nation with a very large EEZ with few people, around 4 million. Luckily, they are distant from most nations, and the nations nearby are friendly.

New Zealand has defense arrangement with Australia, the Anzac Pact, along with a Five Powers arrangement including Australia, United Kingdom, Singapore, and Malaysia. New Zealand has defense commitments with a few of the Pacific island states, former New Zealand dependencies.

Most likely any outside aggressor would most likely offend other nations nearby, New Zealand would not be alone. Australia and New Zealand would most likely operate in concert, along with the Five Powers and Pacific Forum states. France has dependencies in the South Pacific as well. While the US has dropped New Zealand from the Anzus Pact, the US is still friends with New Zealand. Australia and the US still maintains the defense cooperation treaty.

ican understand the reasoning behind the decision although i find it hard to agree with.the world is an ever changing beast and failing to plan for the future and failing to provide air cover for your country and its resources is a very big risk to take with your countries security.