The Arjun Tank

[Marc 1]

In Indian conditions, the soldiers will sit hours inside the tanks under coolers. It's fuel devastation .

Rubbish. Small diesel APU - 15 litres per day. The report above mentions a lack of space under armour - why mount the APU/A/c under armour. You could sling it out the back of the turret basket (if the tank has one if not, it will shortly) It need only be lightly armoured against rifle calibre rounds - If anything much larger hits the APU/A/c you've probably got bigger problems anyway.

The issue of soldiers relaxing in airconditioned comfort rather than doing their job is a matter of professionalism and discipline. The benefits of a soldier and his equipment being able to be effectively used must outweigh the arguments presented so far.

 

[kay_man]

Rubbish. Small diesel APU - 15 litres per day. The report above mentions a lack of space under armour - why mount the APU/A/c under armour. You could sling it out the back of the turret basket (if the tank has one if not, it will shortly) It need only be lightly armoured against rifle calibre rounds - If anything much larger hits the APU/A/c you've probably got bigger problems anyway.

The issue of soldiers relaxing in airconditioned comfort rather than doing their job is a matter of professionalism and discipline. The benefits of a soldier and his equipment being able to be effectively used must outweigh the arguments presented so far.

thearjun does have APU, the t-90 doesnt !!

 

[kay_man]

New Delhi, May 5: The government has listed five "defects" noticed in the Arjun tanks during user trials conducted by the Army. These are "failure of power packs, low accuracy and consistency, failure of hydropneumatic suspension units, shearing of top rollers, and chipping of gun barrels".

Thirty-four years after its launch, the Arjun Main Battle Tank project of the Defence Research and Development Organisation has proved to be a failure with the Army telling a parliamentary committee last month that "the tanks have performed very poorly" in trials conducted last winter.

In the standing committee on defence report submitted to Parliament last month, the Army had told the committee, "We (Army) have just carried out the trial in winter. The tanks have performed very poorly. There have been four engine failures so far ... There has been a problem. The defence minister has been apprised by the (Army) chief ... So, a lot of improvements have to be done before the Army will be satisfied on the Arjun tank."

The parliamentary standing committee on defence then observed, "The committee however (is) startled to hear now from a representative of the Army that the Arjun tanks have performed very poorly."

could u name the source plzz..id like to read it myself. thanks

 

[Chrom]

thearjun does have APU, the t-90 doesnt !!

Better to say - India REFUSED to include both AC and APU in T-90 package. Same with Arena and (possible) Shtora. AC and APU for T-90 offered by russians as standard package since about year 2000. Alger T-90 have it - guess they are lucky not having ambitions DRDO which try to bane any foreign purchase it could.

 

[Waylander]

Waylander - are you trying to state that the Leo2 series uses Laminated armor of unknown substance.:unknown

Ah...hmmm...yes...exactly...

This was the best, but I agree clumsy, definition in english which came to my mind.

 

[eckherl]

Better to say - India REFUSED to include both AC and APU in T-90 package. Same with Arena and (possible) Shtora. AC and APU for T-90 offered by russians as standard package since about year 2000. Alger T-90 have it - guess they are lucky not having ambitions DRDO which try to bane any foreign purchase it could.

Do you know for sure that India refused AC and APU units with the T-90S purchase because everything points to the fact that Russia did not offer this option until India started having major issues with turret components.

Arena and Shtora systems is kind of a hit and miss issue for how reliable the systems really are, China, Pakistan and South Korea have tested these systems with negative results, could be the Russians and Ukrainians are still in need of ironing out the bugs. I should add that there are still issues with Iron Fist and Trophy also.

With the initial testing and fielding results conducted by Russia and India it would make darn good sense that Russia would ensure that Algeria doesn`t go through some of the same head aches. Also I wonder if India has gotten a little mift due in part because Algeria may have recieved a better armor package on their T-90S package deal.

 

[eckherl]

thearjun does have APU, the t-90 doesnt !!

Yes, Arjun does have a APU, I posted photo`s of it back a few pages ago. Chrom is right that Russia did design and field a APU for T-90 series also, I am debating though if this was something that was offered to India.

 

[eckherl]

"Chobham" is very confusing name. Very oft any composite western armor is called "Chobham" although it have little to do with original "Chobham", which btw. is nothing very special either.

Really - why isn`t it special Chrom.

 

[Chrom]

Do you know for sure that India refused AC and APU units with the T-90S purchase because everything points to the fact that Russia did not offer this option until India started having major issues with turret components.

These were 100% offered at least for later batches. It is also offered for several years as upgrade package.

Arena and Shtora systems is kind of a hit and miss issue for how reliable the systems really are, China, Pakistan and South Korea have tested these systems with negative results, could be the Russians and Ukrainians are still in need of ironing out the bugs. I should add that there are still issues with Iron Fist and Trophy also.

Ya, they obtained quite controversial results, but i think they were not ordered mostly due to price. I mean, even if they work only in 50% cases - it is still not bad, eh?

With the initial testing and fielding results conducted by Russia and India it would make darn good sense that Russia would ensure that Algeria doesn`t go through some of the same head aches. Also I wonder if India has gotten a little mift due in part because Algeria may have recieved a better armor package on their T-90S package deal.

We all know pretty funny Indian procurement system. Again, at least for later batches India could become everything as good as Algeria, and for early batches they always can order an upgrade.

 

[Chrom]

Really - why isn`t it special Chrom.

I mean - compared to other kinds of composite armor. Just world class, nothing more nothing less.

 

[n21]

We all know pretty funny Indian procurement system. Again, at least for later batches India could become everything as good as Algeria, and for early batches they always can order an upgrade.

IA needed the T-90 asap and this means it cant wait for all the bells and whistles to be integrated and then deployed.Technology keeps changing everyday and you cant have everything on day one.

If these items are considered operationally critical,they would introduced as needed,which is exactly what is happening now. With around 300 tanks inducted IA is looking out for active defense systems.

There is nothing funny or silly about it.If for some reason IA's T-90 is pitched against Algerian T-90s,I am more than sure that Algerian T-90's will have tough times. This is due to the simple reason that IA has more hands on with their T-90s,despite Alergian T-90's having all bells and whistles.
Just as PA's Patton got hammer against IA's tanks in 65,despite it's "cutting egde" tech!

 

[Chrom]

IA needed the T-90 asap and this means it cant wait for all the bells and whistles to be integrated and then deployed.Technology keeps changing everyday and you cant have everything on day one.

As i already said, at least for all batches except initial one (and may be even for initial) AC and APU were available. This have noting to do with "as fast as possible".

If these items are considered operationally critical,they would introduced as needed,which is exactly what is happening now. With around 300 tanks inducted IA is looking out for active defense systems.

Obviously, they were not considered critically important, and obviously, MOD /DRDO were wrong about "unimportant".

However, this have noting to do with Arjun vs T-90 and they advantages or disadvantages. AC or APU are neither advantage or disadvantage as they are freely available for both tanks.

There is nothing funny or silly about it.If for some reason IA's T-90 is pitched against Algerian T-90s,I am more than sure that Algerian T-90's will have tough times. This is due to the simple reason that IA has more hands on with their T-90s,despite Alergian T-90's having all bells and whistles.
Just as PA's Patton got hammer against IA's tanks in 65,despite it's "cutting egde" tech!

This is very, very, very wrong way of thinking. Else you can come to conclusion what we should equip modern army with stone axes and bows - after all modern army with stone axes would still win against ancient romans with assault rifles.

Algerian T-90 tanks are better than Indian tanks. Period. No one says what Algerian army is more powerful or better trained - this is entirely another matter.

 

[kay_man]

!!!!!!

hey guys,

I was just going through some of the defence sites and forums and found that 60 arjun tanks have been delivered to the army !!!

Hope the army orders some more tanks so that the facility keeps running and also the R&D on the arjun mk2 .
i also read in alocal newspaper that the army was considering to order another 124 tanks......hope this is true..

 

[Chrom]

hey guys,

I was just going through some of the defence sites and forums and found that 60 arjun tanks have been delivered to the army !!!

Hope the army orders some more tanks so that the facility keeps running and also the R&D on the arjun mk2 .
i also read in alocal newspaper that the army was considering to order another 124 tanks......hope this is true..

Not "another". It is still the same 124 tanks. Part of which already delivered tanks are.

 

[kay_man]

stop the sarcasm and try to understand my feelings :-(

Not "another". It is still the same 124 tanks. Part of which already delivered tanks are.

yea thats what i said !!!!
im not that ill -informed to think more 60 were inducted !!!

all i meant to say that the production is going on at a good pace and hope that the army orders more tanks to keep the production lines open for more years......it will also gave DRDO more time and much needed enthusiasm to come up with arjun mk2.

 

[Rish]

Does anyone know anything about the kanchan armor used on the Arjun? I couldn't find much on the web. Here's a link to the only thing I found:

http://frontierindia.net/the-kanchan-armor

Thanks!

 

[kay_man]

re

Does anyone know anything about the kanchan armor used on the Arjun? I couldn't find much on the web. Here's a link to the only thing I found:

http://frontierindia.net/the-kanchan-armor

Thanks!

it is broadly similar to chobum armour .
the exact composition is kept secret like in case of all good defence things.

but it has proven to be very good.
it could withstand hits from hits from armour piercing rounds (new rounds) of t-72 and t-90 AT POINT BLANK RANGE .

 

[kay_man]

Home > News > more-news



Antony asks Army to objectively evaluate Arjun tank

New Delhi, May 17 : Defence minister A.K. Antony has reportedly asked the Army to study objectively the reports of the trials of the Arjun tanks during the recent exercises and has ruled out abandonment of the project, sources have said.


The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) authorities had met Antony and informed him that small glitches that cropped up in the tank's winter trials were being blown out of proportion, they added.

The DRDO said that problems encountered during the winter trials have been overcome and Arjun tanks were doing well in the trials being conducted in deserts at present.

"Tank's firing was on target and very reliable and accurate. Not a single barrel of the main gun of the Arjun tank had burst while the T-90s had seen five-barrel bursts and many more in the T-72s," sources quoted DRDO authorities, as saying. Both are in service with the Indian Army.

The Defence Minister was informed that the small problem in the German company Renk's gearbox had been sorted out with the introduction of appropriate software. The same company supplies gearboxes to leading tank manufacturers across the globe.

The presentation made by the Army before the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has been contested, according to reports.

The parliamentary committee submitted its report last month and it had quoted the Army authorities as saying the Arjun tank was way below its expectations.

Sources said the DRDO officials did a point-to-point comparison of the Arjun tank with the T-90 tank before the Defence Minister and other senior functionaries in the Ministry of Defence.

On the issue of the Arjun tank being heavy, the DRDO officials said that it was accepted from the beginning that both light and heavy tanks were needed for battles on varied terrains.

"The weight of the Arjun is not a constraint, it rather runs faster and crosses the marshy terrain, small rivers and other obstacles. The weight is not the issue.

All major tanks of the US, Israel, Germany, the UK and France weigh about 60 tonnes each like the Arjun, an officer of the DRDO said.




The government is finnally making sense....no giving up on arjun project...

 

[Chrom]

Home > News > more-news



Antony asks Army to objectively evaluate Arjun tank

other obstacles. The weight is not the issue.

All major tanks of the US, Israel, Germany, the UK and France weigh about 60 tonnes each like the Arjun, an officer of the DRDO said.




The government is finnally making sense....no giving up on arjun project...

I think, giving up was never an option. But something very unhealthy happens regarding army refusal to accept bug-plagued Arjun in service. Everyone automatically assume it is because army officers are corrupt, incompetent, foreign firms bribed, sabotaged, etc, etc. Few such army bashers actually think about army capabilities and army problems, army fund constraints.

Few Indians willing to pay more taxes, but many here asking army to force induction of much more expensive Arjun instead of T-90 - and in same numbers.

 

[kay_man]

LOOKS LIKE SOME HIGH RANKING ARMY OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN PAID A HEFT SUM TO FAVOUR FOREIGN EQUIPMENMT (RUSSIAN).....hmmmmm

Indian Army’s claims over Arjun Tank was expected


The solution lies in third party auditing. Its high time we the tax payers know the truth