For Pakistan scrambling a few years back for Tow 2B purchases says alot for that missiles performance, I think that you will find that most Western heavy ATGMs are designed for either top attack or ERA penetration performance.
who can kill a modern Main Battle Tank (MBT)?
- Thread starter giangnguyen
- Start date
- Status
For Pakistan scrambling a few years back for Tow 2B purchases says alot for that missiles performance, I think that you will find that most Western heavy ATGMs are designed for either top attack or ERA penetration performance.
There is no question in that. As i said, every developer try to adjust against modern threat / armor. I just pointed out what very heavy ATGM's have disproportionally better penetration against ERA or composite armor versus they RHA penetration values.
TOW 2B is surely very capable modern ATGM, but i doubt it have same "raw" performance against ERA or composite armor as old Maverick.
To the front a 40mm APFSDS would not harm even older MBTs but it is a fair assumption that it would punch through the sides and back of normal MBTs and even the increased protection of some of the newer urban warfare kits should have problems with it.
If for example a CV90 suddenly faces an MBT his only chance is laying a smoke screen (hopefully IR smoke) and drive backwards like hell.
A burst of 3P rounds might add some confusion and may even get a lucky hit on some optics.
Nevertheless a IFV is in really big trouble if he suddenly faces an MBT without own support near by. (Exceptions are missile ambushes by an ATGM-capable IFV)
If for example a CV90 suddenly faces an MBT his only chance is laying a smoke screen (hopefully IR smoke) and drive backwards like hell.
A burst of 3P rounds might add some confusion and may even get a lucky hit on some optics.
Nevertheless a IFV is in really big trouble if he suddenly faces an MBT without own support near by. (Exceptions are missile ambushes by an ATGM-capable IFV)
I was more thinking of putting the 3P round in a LAW style grenade launcher, the individual soldier can carry 5-10 of these (2.5kg shell) plus a 2.5kg launcher, make it recoiless (back of the shell blows out) with a muzzle on the back to allow for confined spaces shooting. Extremly good in urban warfare, may even able to achieve limited guidance one day. Time function settings mean you can destroy pretty much anything infantry will come across. I don't doubt that a CV90 is up the preverbial creek without a paddle in fact its probably better to bail out in that situation.
Carrying 5-10 of these launchers? That's 25kg for the shells alone not including the carriage and the launcher. That's alot.
If one wants to use some kind of launcher for urban warfare I would still prefer a Panzerfaust 3-T (Or IT-600 if one wants some guidiance capabilities), a RPG-7V or a RPG-29.
These weapons give you the ability to defeat even the upgraded protection of urban warfare kits which is not something I would expect from a 3P round.
BTW, how do you think you implement a 40mm 3P round which is fired by a Bofors 40mm/L70 into a LAW style launcher? This would be a total new round and couldn't be called 3P anymore.
And a round HE round with proximity/time fuzed modes is always going to have less armor piercing capabilities than a specially developed modern AT-tandem warhead.
4 rounds would be possible - identical weight to a PzF3 round, with the launcher at identical weight.
A 40mm recoilless wouldn't have anywhere near the speed and impact energy of a similar shell fired from a 40mm/L70, and hence a lot less armor penetration.
There's a reason HEAT was developed, and there's a reason recoilless rifles became bigger and bigger over time.
I was saying ten rounds between a squad, I can see how I portrayed that as confusing, my bad... May I direct you attention to this...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg[/ame]
this is what I meant with the 3P shell, hell of a lot of recoil, although I do acknowledge that there is a big difference in power.
Another suggeestion, someone mentioned thermite grenades in another thread, how effective are they at cutting through armour?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg[/ame]
this is what I meant with the 3P shell, hell of a lot of recoil, although I do acknowledge that there is a big difference in power.
Another suggeestion, someone mentioned thermite grenades in another thread, how effective are they at cutting through armour?
Ah yes, sorry for confusing that. I really thought you want to give one trooper some additional 20+kg to carry around.
I still don't get why you are so fascinated by the 3P round for serious AT work. This round is good for soft and light armored threats as well as against flying targets but it's performance is well behind a modern APFSDS when it comes to armor penetration.
Or do I get something totally wrong and 3P is also the designation for a totally different kind of projectile fired from this monster gun in the video?
One just won't get the same amount of penetration even with this monster compared to a modern big RPG/Panzerfaust.
And a Panzerfaust should also have better secondary capabilities. The fuze can remain in the warhead and you get a good round against structures and with special bunkerfaust rounds you can even get a specialized anti-bunker round.
Thermit grenades are used for self destrcution of the tank. One places it right next to the remaining ammo and then barkes the hell out of it. They are hot as hell and the tank should catch fire (and with it the remaining ammo).
So this is special equipment for the crew and nothing for AT-teams.
I was also assuming that you are using the APFSDS round for MBT's and 3P for LAV's to medium stuff, how about hybrid APFSDS round with thermite or some type of explosive material in the centre?
Have you seen the 3P working, goes right through reinforced conrete detonates on the other side destroying the bunker, one round multiple purposes here is the video you all might like to see
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_y6kkDO7Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_y6kkDO7Y[/ame]
Don't take me for a youtube freak or anything, they are good examples of bothe the APFSDS and 3P rounds in action, if you are stuck for time watch the first one its better.
Have you seen the 3P working, goes right through reinforced conrete detonates on the other side destroying the bunker, one round multiple purposes here is the video you all might like to see
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_y6kkDO7Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_y6kkDO7Y[/ame]
Don't take me for a youtube freak or anything, they are good examples of bothe the APFSDS and 3P rounds in action, if you are stuck for time watch the first one its better.
I know how 3P rounds work.
And it is defenitely a really good round for a 40mm armed vehicle.
But it is still the inferior weapon if one wants to equip the infantry.
You don't get the same power out of portable gun system like one gets out of high-pressure vehicle mounted guns.
And with this the armor piercing capability is seriously inferior to a modern tandem warhead deliverd by RPG like weapons.
And a Bunkerfaust round is defenitely more destructive against enemy structures than a single 3P round. And while IFVs have the luxury to be able to put a lot of rounds into one target infantry doesn't.
And it is defenitely a really good round for a 40mm armed vehicle.
But it is still the inferior weapon if one wants to equip the infantry.
You don't get the same power out of portable gun system like one gets out of high-pressure vehicle mounted guns.
And with this the armor piercing capability is seriously inferior to a modern tandem warhead deliverd by RPG like weapons.
And a Bunkerfaust round is defenitely more destructive against enemy structures than a single 3P round. And while IFVs have the luxury to be able to put a lot of rounds into one target infantry doesn't.
) but I think it got axed or at least halted.- Status