The Arjun Tank
- Thread starter Jade
- Start date
T-90's dont fire Indian rounds yet. The Russians asked for extra cash to integrate the same. I haven't seen any report about IA saying yes for that.
There was a batch of rounds which used Russian pentrator and Indian propellant,which were produced due to "overboard research" by the production angencies. IA rejected them and reporters as usual got a story a tell.
A proper Indian 125 mm round does not have any such issue.
Hence there is no way T-90 would have a burst barrel due to a Indian round.
Arjun has had a very complicated history.It started out as a geinune IA requirement to handle desert terrian,as the british and french tanks within IA had severe drawbacks within this envirnoment.
In the late 80's Pakistan tested out M1A1 and all hell broke loose. IA modified the requirement for what would have been a 105 mm gunned tank to a monster to handle M1A1. And the result was you have a "Indian Leopard".
After a while PA decided not to induct M1A1 and IA lost the interest as a T-72's were enough to handle similar kinds on PA's side.
Since then Arjun's requirements were based on Jane's magazine!
As for the tank crew passing, if you have a full alert deployment for 1 year in a scoring desert, there is nothing much a human body can do. IA imported some cooling vest during the standoff.Arjun's crew use a Indian made cooling vest now.IA didnot want AC as it would drain engine power! Hence T-90's are partially AC'ed,only the electronics.
Read my post carefully, I stated quality control, which does include proper packing of projectiles and propellants for shipping and storage, transporting to the field. Fixed casing ammunition in fact can with stand high ambient temperatures better that two part ammunition, this has not always been the case though, we found out with the M829 combustable casing that when it was prone to high ambient temperatures that it was prone to swelling causing the casing to get stuck part way into the tube, we ended up redesigning it with better casing properties. British Challenger 2 also has had issues with the propellant L14A2 used to propel Charms 2 and 3, this in fact contributed to Challengers 2 dismal performance when tested by the Greek military authorities, they could not hit most of the targets engaged for the live fire demonstration, culprit being propellant casing exposed to high ambient temperatures.
Some of the systems can drain away at least 10% of your power when it is operational, maybe even more. They also suck when it comes to fuel milage.
:10%?
I know that the two big rotors cooling the 1500hp MTU in the Leo 2 actually need roughly 200hp to cool your engine down (7,5%). I would think that an AC for your crew compartement would need a lot less than these big monsters and not just roughly 2,5%.
I know that the two big rotors cooling the 1500hp MTU in the Leo 2 actually need roughly 200hp to cool your engine down (7,5%). I would think that an AC for your crew compartement would need a lot less than these big monsters and not just roughly 2,5%.
as a matter of fact the the arjun,s tracks are lot wider than that of the t-90 thus it has a groung pressure of 0.84 tonnes while the t-90 has a ground preasure of 0.90 tonnes..........this allows arjun to move more easily on loose sand and marshy areas.
also ill answer aliphs earlier post by saying that the arjun is THE MOST EXTENSIVELY TESTED TANK IN THE WORLD as of today , its not uncommon that a few glitches might be found .in fact it is things like this that allow to perfect subsystems that are developed indegenously....and also will help in R&D of arjun mk2 ad furthur variants.
BOTH THE GOVT> AND THE RESEARCH OORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON EITHER THE ARJUN OR LCA PROJECTS. htey have come to accept that being the 1st time there will be delays and cost overruns. u guys will be glad to hear tht the IAF and MOD are adament at inducting the LCA:dance
hey ,nooooo. u hav got it wrong. importing tanks from russia is not not a new thing, we can do it anytime . the arjun must be offering some cool advantages over the t-90 thats why the research is still going on otherwise the trials wud hav been over long back.
its not a question of national pride ... and india is not tht dumb.
t-90 is like a quick and timely ANTIBIOTIC pill while the arjun is a VACCINE...it will prove a godsent in the long run.
also, i saw a doccumentary on history channel about ww2 tank battles and cold war, and there is something tht caught my attention.its a minor thing but still important.
experts say tht the russuian tanks are mainly offensive with more emphasis on mobility and firepower.....more addept at exploiting a breakthrough than creating one..
whereas the western tanks predominantly plca more emphasis on firepower and protection.....more adept at making a breakthrough in enemy lines than following..
so the indian army does not have to choose between arjun and t-90 as many ppl around here think.... they just hav to keep a good mix of both types of tank..
hey ,nooooo. u hav got it wrong. importing tanks from russia is not not a new thing, we can do it anytime . the arjun must be offering some cool advantages over the t-90 thats why the research is still going on otherwise the trials wud hav been over long back.
its not a question of national pride ... and india is not tht dumb.
t-90 is like a quick and timely ANTIBIOTIC pill while the arjun is a VACCINE...it will prove a godsent in the long run.
also, i saw a doccumentary on history channel about ww2 tank battles and cold war, and there is something tht caught my attention.its a minor thing but still important.
experts say tht the russuian tanks are mainly offensive with more emphasis on mobility and firepower.....more addept at exploiting a breakthrough than creating one..
whereas the western tanks predominantly plca more emphasis on firepower and protection.....more adept at making a breakthrough in enemy lines than following..
so the indian army does not have to choose between arjun and t-90 as many ppl around here think.... they just hav to keep a good mix of both types of tank..
Would India replace her Arjun MBT with second-hand Leopard 2 A6?
There are not really many used Leopard 2A6 out there which are for sale.
Portugal got some from the dutch and I am not sure if the dutch are willing to sell some more (And defenitely not in high numbers).
The A5, A6(M), E, HEL and Strv122 of other nations are also not for sale.
India could get newbuild Leo IIs with all the gadgets they want and may also get some additional used A4s for a very good price.
But these newbuild Leos wouldn't be cheap and would lead them away from their path of more and more indepence from foreign arms manufacturers.
Portugal got some from the dutch and I am not sure if the dutch are willing to sell some more (And defenitely not in high numbers).
The A5, A6(M), E, HEL and Strv122 of other nations are also not for sale.
India could get newbuild Leo IIs with all the gadgets they want and may also get some additional used A4s for a very good price.
But these newbuild Leos wouldn't be cheap and would lead them away from their path of more and more indepence from foreign arms manufacturers.
It doesn't seem possible, nevermind likely, that India will buy Leo's. They're set with around 1600 T-90's and can easily purchase more. They're also hellbent on getting the Arjun inducted in at least limited numbers, and then going from there. I don't see any room for a Leo II purchase.
@actual: I'm not sure what you're trying to ask. India can not replace their Arjuns with anything as the Arjun is not in service yet. And also India is extremely unlikely to consider the procurement of the Leopard 2 instead of the Arjun. They have developed the Arjun because they want an indigenious tank, not because because they want a "Western style"-tank to augment their T-series fleet.
DavidDCM: I'm talking about India stopping the Arjun. How long has India tried to produce a modern MBT and waisted millions?
And what have they produced? A bad early-mark Leopard-2 cloan that Pakistan has far suppassed!
Awful result.
But your two big rotors (fans) are cooling down with outside air, as for a Air conditioner you are using a motor and compressor to move cool thermastatic set air.
Some of these devices can also be spliced into a APU.Pakistan hasn`t surpassed India in tank technologies, you just threw that one out there, can you back that up with some facts please.
Nevertheless moving these rotors needs alot of energy.But your two big rotors (fans) are cooling down with outside air, as for a Air conditioner you are using a motor and compressor to move cool thermastatic set air.
They already have AC for the electronics so they "just" need an additional AC for their crew.
I agree that in a desert environment an AC has alot of work but is the amount of energy it needs really that big?
Usual AC for electronic or inner space dont take much - probably around 10kw at most. The things which cool engine is a whole another matter - they can take a lot. 7.5 % or even 15%.
Yes, i just pointed out what most likely wrong shipping/storage conditions is a Indian's side fault. Although 2-part ammunitions might (or might not) worsen the issue of course.