Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

BilalK

New Member
I could have misunderstood Pakistan's acquisition plans, but isn't PAF planning to have a total of 96x F-16 fighters in-service all upgraded to a Block 52+ standard, either through new build fighters or via MLU'd earlier block fighters?
The plan is - at least officially - 18 Block-52+ with an option for 18 more, as well as 60 F-16A/Bs upgraded to Block-52+ standard. For now there hasn't been much word on whether PAF will execute the option for 18 more Block-52+. Remember the original plan was for 55-75 Block-52+, and it was cut down to 36 and now stands at 18. To me it now appears that single Block-52+ squadron and whatever number of MLUs will act as PAF's mainstay aircraft as the JF-17s replace the F-7s & Mirages.
On top of which it still has planned to introduce JF-17 in large numbers plus a newer generation "advanced" fighter to complement F-16 and JF-17?
The newer generation advanced fighter is FC-20 - which is shaping up to be a J-10 variant of some sort. Though J-10 being primarily an air-superiority oriented fighter, and JF-17 a relatively short-range and low-payload aircraft...I think the doors are a little bit open for something like J-11B. That is just my view of it.
yeah, I've thought about that. I'm not sure you'd want J-11B to be launching LACMs. For example, in PLAAF, that role is given to H-6K. It depends on the needs I guess. And PAF seems to have far greater need for air defense than strike missions.
Well not just LACMs & strike, but also as lead maritime fighter to replace the Mirage-variants currently employed in the role.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
PAF to achieve air refueling capability next year: Tanveer Mehmood Updated at : Wednesday, January 30, 2008


SHAURKOT: Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mehmood Ahmed has said the Pakistan Air Force will attain the capabilities of early airborne early warning radars and air refueling by next year.

Speaking at a ceremony held to mark the 50 years of PAF two combat groups the Air chief marshal said the P-A-F would get its first squadron of JF-17 Thunder aircraft this year.

He further stated that the air force would get more F-16 fighter jets from the US by 2010, which would enhance its operational capabilities.

http://geo.tv/details.asp?id=15202
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Sudan negotiating for JF-17s/FC1s.

Sudan has also expressed interest in purchasing 12 Chinese FC1 fighters, and the two sides are now negotiating technical details of the deal.

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article25992

Egypt and Bangladesh also showed interest. I forsee one more production line being setup to meet the demand. Maybe Egypt will go for K-8 type deal again.
 
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dlhh

New Member
Hi Guys. There's all this talk of Fifth Gen for Pak AF. Please goto http://www.tempur.com.my/dcp.news.asp?categoryID=12.

The article in Tempur states that PAC & CAC have signed an MOU last OCT to develop stealthy fifth Gen JF-17. Engine will be SNECMA Moteours M88-3 twin shaft bypass turbofan, same engine used by Rafale. Radar will be Finmeccanica SELEX Vixen 500E AESA, integrated electronic warfare/defensive suites by CTEC & helmet mounted sighting cum cueing by either Thales, Denel or BAE. Digital all glass cockpit and open architecture avionics suite.

PAK AF is expected to only buy 100 4th Gen JF-17 to be delivered this year through 2015. Another 150 Fifth Gen Stealthy JF-17 is expected to be delivered by 2015 through 2025.

PAK AF will also be delivered an initial two Y-8 AWACS this year through 2010. Radar on this plane is the same as IL-76MD KJ-2000 AWACS, an AESA radar.
 

mysterious

New Member
What?? This all seems a bit too far-fetched. I'll wait for pshamim, sabre, tphuang & gary to shed some more light on this. The article on this link provided by you, has a picture of what seems to be an F-18 Hornet attached to it. Another case of ppl not knowing what they're talking about with a flashy website?
 
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dlhh

New Member
What?? This all seems a bit too far-fetched. I'll wait for pshamim, sabre, tphuang & gary to shed some more light on this. The article on this link provided by you, has a picture of what seems to be an F-18 Hornet attached to it. Another case of ppl not knowing what they're talking about with a flashy website?
This website belongs to a defence magazine from Malaysia and the reporter is Prasun K.Sengupta, a respected defense analyst with numerous articles written for overseas establishments. He visits a lot of defense shows where he gets his anlaysis.

The picture is for simulation purposes only as they only signed the MOU last Oct & the plane is not due till 2015. So far, the articles in the magazine has proven correct.

Which part of the story do you find far fetched?
 

mysterious

New Member
The picture is for simulation purposes only as they only signed the MOU last Oct & the plane is not due till 2015. So far, the articles in the magazine has proven correct.
Two Jf-17s have already been delivered to Pakistan already while serial production is to restart soon. So we KNOW what a final production series Jf-17 looks like. Evn for simulation purposes it is highly erroneous to put up an F-18 picture on a Jf-17 article since I highly doubt that the so-called 'stealthy' Jf-17 would be a twin engine beast with twin tail fins.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Two Jf-17s have already been delivered to Pakistan already while serial production is to restart soon. So we KNOW what a final production series Jf-17 looks like. Evn for simulation purposes it is highly erroneous to put up an F-18 picture on a Jf-17 article since I highly doubt that the so-called 'stealthy' Jf-17 would be a twin engine beast with twin tail fins.
Pakistan Air Force has currently 10 JF-17s in her inventory.

I agree, any chances of JF-17 going twin engined are remote. Also, the items to be installed on JF-17 as per the article sounds more like a wishlist.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Chinese President Hu and all his counterparts gathered and congs the great achievement of the new generation of jet fighter inducted/designed by CAIC I yesterday..
One of the latest news being circulating around. Source being China Daily.

J-11C aka F-20 ?

J-11C is said to have AESA and FADEC equipped WS-10A engine.

Mod edit:

Post a link if you wish to quote a source. Otherwise don't make claims that aren't supported...
 
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mysterious

New Member
Pakistan Air Force has currently 10 JF-17s in her inventory.
TEN Jf-17s? What is your source on this information? There are only TWO Jf-17s in Pakistan as of this moment which were delivered by China in time for the March 23rd Pakistan Day parade. Pilots & technicians are undergoing training with those two jets. PAF is 'supposed' to get SIX more Jf-17s delivered by end of 2008.


P.S: Quit trolling & edit your first post to add to it, dont make two consecutive posts hardly three lines each. Its in the rules if I'm not mistaken.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
What's your source?

Any of these claims of yours are going to be deleted if you don't support them and you won't last long on these boards.

AD
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
Don't be so hard on Aliph. His figure is off by four airframes, from what I've heard there are six.
Anyhow we'll know exact numbers by 23 March as all JF-17s delivered will take part in the fly past.
 

Pro'forma

New Member
Government of Pakistan cannot plan to buy 49 fighters.
Simply, budget allows it not. Hot debate will continue to buy
next fighters and hey ! Paf goes Red Flad.

Plus written 10 lines and nominal overheating, government
foreign contract approvement act, non compos mentis or
10 new fighters.
 

dlhh

New Member
Pakistan Air Force has currently 10 JF-17s in her inventory.

I agree, any chances of JF-17 going twin engined are remote. Also, the items to be installed on JF-17 as per the article sounds more like a wishlist.
The article only mentioned single engine. As you do not have access to the full article unless you order the magazine, you only have part of the news.

Stealthy 5th Gen JF-17 is Pak AF response to India's joint R&D with Russia to produce its own 5th Gen Stealthy Fighter. Whatever Pakistan does, it has to do it now, otherwise it may no answer to India's 5th Gen fighter.

Lets look at Pak AF options:

It cannot get F22 & it is too expensive anyway.

EU 5th Gen fighter is also very expensive & so far, I have not read of any intentions to design one. Looking at the Typhoon and the length of time it took to develop plus all the countries involved bickering about its cost, can Pakistan wait for it?

PLA 5th Gen JXX is not neccesarily going to meet PAK AF requirements & its cost is not neccessarily cheap. So, what other options has PAK AF?

As for the engine & AESA radar plus helmet, why is it a wishlist? I do not know of any arms embargo against Pakistan.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Don't be so hard on Aliph. His figure is off by four airframes, from what I've heard there are six.
Anyhow we'll know exact numbers by 23 March as all JF-17s delivered will take part in the fly past.
Not more than 4 or 5 will take part. I doubt PAF will put entire JF-17 fleet in the air on 23rd March :)
 

fahadmasood111

New Member
West urged to provide Pakistan for Counter Insurgency - Air Marshall(R) Masood Akhtar

A former Pakistan Air Force officer, Air Marshal Masood Akhtar, has called on the West to provide his country with modern weapons for counter-insurgency and to avoid collateral damage.

He was speaking at a seminar on 'The Role of Air Power in Counter-Insurgency--Pakistan's Experience in the Tribal Region', at the International Institute of Strategic Studies here on Thursday evening. He said that Pakistan’s forces are battling against Taliban insurgency in the tribal areas in NWFP in which PAF is also playing an important role.


A former Pakistan Air Force officer, Air Marshal Masood Akhtar, has called on the West to provide his country with modern weapons for counter-insurgency and to avoid collateral damage.

He was speaking at a seminar on 'The Role of Air Power in Counter-Insurgency--Pakistan's Experience in the Tribal Region', at the International Institute of Strategic Studies here on Thursday evening. He said that Pakistan’s forces are battling against Taliban insurgency in the tribal areas in NWFP in which PAF is also playing an important role.

However, he added that helicopters, rather than fixed-wing warplanes, have been found more useful in these hilly areas. Masood Akhtar, who has been a fighter pilot for 35 years with over 2500 hours of flying experience on a variety of PAF fighter and training aircraft, said that the Air Force had been using this air power with caution and restrain to prevent collateral damage.

He said he was of the view that precision-guided ammunitions were better suited for PAF requirement rather than thousand-pounder or 500-pound bombs, which cause greater collateral damage. "If we are provided with smaller and smarter bombs, we could easily avoid unintended damage to civilian life or property," he added.

For the air power to be successful in counter-insurgency, he observed that a lot depends on good ground intelligence because any wrong information could lead to unwarranted damage.

Air Marshal Masood, who also served as a Commandant, Air War College, noted that damage to civilian life and property had resulted in a backlash which was evident by the recent attacks on PAF personnel by the suicide bombers.

He also explained the circumstances which led to the rise of al Qaeda and Taliban and said that such extremists groups emerged as a result of the global politics in which Pakistan, willy-nilly, had been caught up with and was paying a heavy price.

The Air Marshal said that during Soviet Union's 10-year occupation of Afghanistan, PAF had brought down a dozen Soviet and Afghan air forces planes found in violation of Pakistan territory.

The retired Air Force officer said Pakistan was pushed into thinking itself as a citadel of Islam as a consequence of the Cold War, in which the West's primary motive was to defeat Communism of Soviet Union and stop its spread.

"As a result, the message of Founding Fathers Muhammad Ali Jinnah and poet-philosopher Allama Iqbal of a tolerant and egalitarian society with people enjoying equal social, political and economical rights and opportunities was set aside and lost."

He said that both Osama Bin Laden and Mulla Omar had used globalisation to the hilt and achieved their objectives. He stressed the need for launching political, economic and social campaigns in the tribal areas to win the hearts and minds of the people and wean them from extremist ideology.

Masood called for overhauling the education system in Pakistan with greater focus on providing effective primary education to replace religious seminaries. "Only a well established and efficient unified education system could provide the basis and sense of a nationhood." he asserted.

He pointed out the difficulties of fighting an enemy without a face and said that Pakistan would have to fight such non-state factors for a long time. Responding to questions, he said there was a reluctance on the part of the West to give Pakistan sophisticated weapons, while the country is averse to allowing Nato troops to operate inside its borders.

In the current regional scenario, he noted, India has behaved sensibly and has not tried to take advantage of Pakistan's predicament. The Air Marshal said that both Pakistan and India have realised that military was no solution to the Kashmir issue and have started the peace process. The meeting was chaired by a former RAF bomber pilot Andrew Brookes, an IISS Aerospace analyst.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/24/beyond-pakistani-made-jf-17-thunders-chinese-made-j-10s-will-paf-acquire-j-11s/

Beyond Pakistani made JF-17 Thunders & Chinese made J-10s: Will PAF acquire J-11s?
February 24, 2008

by Moinansari

Pakistan and China designed, prototyped and built the JF-17 Thunder faster than any other aircraft–leaving the Indian LCA in the dust.:D The WD-93 (Russian engine) JF-17 Thunder is now competing with the Korean fighter and others. Pakistan is in midst of building about 500 JF-17 Thunder fighters, probably the biggest build up of planes in the history of the world.

The Pakistan JF-Thunder aircraft will go through a major upgrade in avionics, and a switch in engines to a Chinese version of the WD-93 called the WS-13. Efforts are already underway to produce the WS-13 engine locally, and upgrade the avionics with the latest French and Italian technology.

Pakistan used the earthquake as the perfect opportunity to gently turn down the offer of F-16s to Pakistan and diversified the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). President Musharraf and PAF head was invited to China to evaluate China’s latest toy, at the time, the J-10.

Now reports are surfacing that China has been able to duplicate the SU-27, the most lethal bird in the air. The Chinese version of the Sukhoi SU-27 (Flanker) is now called the J-11. The Su-30MKI (another derivative of the SU-27), a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical. The American Fighters belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. The F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.

The airplanes in the Russian inventory are:

1. SU-27 a fourth generation fighter
2. SU33, and SU35 derivatives of the 4th generation SU-27s

The Pakistanis should be tight lipped about the new Chinese fighter and whether Pakistan is going to acquire any. The Chinese in a sweet deal of $2.5 Billion with the Russians purchased the right to produce the SK-27. The J-11 is a “third generation” aircraft.

Now, the efforts in China and Pakistan are underway to move to the air-forces to the latest planes like SU-27K which is now called SU-33.

What about the SU-35? The original Su-35 was a derivative of the Su-27 and essentially a ground-based variant of the Su-33. While the official Russian Air Force designation for the aircraft remained the Su-27M, Sukhoi rechristened the model as the Su-35 in the hopes of attracting foreign customers. The Brazilians wanted to produce it but in the end opted for the Mirage IIIs.

The Brazilian decision appeared to have ended the Su-35 program once and for all since Sukhoi had little success finding other customers. Hopes were briefly revived in May 2006 when Venezuela announced interest in the Su-35, but the nation instead chose a variant of the Su-30. The move is largely politically-motivated given recent tensions between Venezuela and the United States over America’s ban on providing support for the Venezuelan F-16 fleet. the Su-35 was revived at least in name in 2007 when Sukhoi announced the aircraft had entered production for the Russian Air Force. This incarnation is also a derivative of the Su-27.

A derivative of the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, the Su-37 is a super-maneuverable thrust vectoring fighter. Designed from an Su-35 prototype, the Su-37 test aircraft (designated T10M-11) made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/24/bey...rs-chinese-made-j-10s-will-paf-acquire-j-11s/

Beyond Pakistani made JF-17 Thunders & Chinese made J-10s: Will PAF acquire J-11s?
February 24, 2008

by Moinansari

Pakistan and China designed, prototyped and built the JF-17 Thunder faster than any other aircraft–leaving the Indian LCA in the dust.:D The WD-93 (Russian engine) JF-17 Thunder is now competing with the Korean fighter and others. Pakistan is in midst of building about 500 JF-17 Thunder fighters, probably the biggest build up of planes in the history of the world.
500 planes? What rubbish. The F-16 alone has sold more than 4000 aircraft. 8x times as many as this "history making build up".

Pakistan used the earthquake as the perfect opportunity to gently turn down the offer of F-16s to Pakistan and diversified the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). President Musharraf and PAF head was invited to China to evaluate China’s latest toy, at the time, the J-10.
Rubbish. Pakistan has ordered new build F-16's from the USA, has options on additional new builds, has purchased second-hand F-16's from the USA and MLU kits for it's existing F-16's.

The first 2 "template" F-16's to be upgraded for the PAF arrived in the USA in January 2008 and are about to undergo upgrade if they haven't started already, (which I suspect they have).

Now reports are surfacing that China has been able to duplicate the SU-27, the most lethal bird in the air. The Chinese version of the Sukhoi SU-27 (Flanker) is now called the J-11. The Su-30MKI (another derivative of the SU-27), a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical. The American Fighters belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. The F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.
Bollocks. The SU-27 is an older and less advanced variant of the SU-30 aircraft.

What about the SU-35? The original Su-35 was a derivative of the Su-27 and essentially a ground-based variant of the Su-33. While the official Russian Air Force designation for the aircraft remained the Su-27M, Sukhoi rechristened the model as the Su-35 in the hopes of attracting foreign customers. The Brazilians wanted to produce it but in the end opted for the Mirage IIIs.
No they didn't. Brazil opted for a squadron of 12x Mirage 2000's. Pakistan however operates the Mirage III.

Close... :confused:

A derivative of the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, the Su-37 is a super-maneuverable thrust vectoring fighter. Designed from an Su-35 prototype, the Su-37 test aircraft (designated T10M-11) made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor.
No it's not. The SU-30 is...

What a credible report. Thanks for posting this Aliph... :eek:nfloorl:
 

BilalK

New Member
I think it has been established that from now to 2015 the focus will be on JF-17, F-16 Block-52+, MLU and FC-20 aka some multi-role J-10 variant. I would be more interested in seeing if PAF would finalize a 5th-generation fighter option by 2010. Or rather a little closer to home, would PAF standardize on AESA radars for JF-17, F-16 & FC-20?
 

n21

New Member
This website belongs to a defence magazine from Malaysia and the reporter is Prasun K.Sengupta, a respected defense analyst with numerous articles written for overseas establishments. He visits a lot of defense shows where he gets his anlaysis.

The picture is for simulation purposes only as they only signed the MOU last Oct & the plane is not due till 2015. So far, the articles in the magazine has proven correct.

Which part of the story do you find far fetched?
Sengupta, a respected defense analyst? You got to be kidding.

He writes articles for a magazine called Force,which is popularly referred as "Farce"!
 
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