Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[SABRE]

http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/24/bey...rs-chinese-made-j-10s-will-paf-acquire-j-11s/

Beyond Pakistani made JF-17 Thunders & Chinese made J-10s: Will PAF acquire J-11s?
February 24, 2008

by Moinansari

Pakistan and China designed, prototyped and built the JF-17 Thunder faster than any other aircraft–leaving the Indian LCA in the dust. The WD-93 (Russian engine) JF-17 Thunder is now competing with the Korean fighter and others. Pakistan is in midst of building about 500 JF-17 Thunder fighters, probably the biggest build up of planes in the history of the world.

Well I prefered to stop reading after the above paragraph. In fact the 1st line & that 'Big Grin' simile was enough to assess the credibility of the article.

Pakistan used the earthquake as the perfect opportunity to gently turn down the offer of F-16s to Pakistan and diversified the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). President Musharraf and PAF head was invited to China to evaluate China’s latest toy, at the time, the J-10.

If a country wants to turn down an offer or purchase it can do it without hiding behind any natural calamity. Just a sorry excuse for a 14yr old writer???

Now reports are surfacing that China has been able to duplicate the SU-27, the most lethal bird in the air. The Chinese version of the Sukhoi SU-27 (Flanker) is now called the J-11. The Su-30MKI (another derivative of the SU-27), a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical. The American Fighters belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. The F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.

The airplanes in the Russian inventory are:

1. SU-27 a fourth generation fighter
2. SU33, and SU35 derivatives of the 4th generation SU-27s

The Pakistanis should be tight lipped about the new Chinese fighter and whether Pakistan is going to acquire any. The Chinese in a sweet deal of $2.5 Billion with the Russians purchased the right to produce the SK-27. The J-11 is a “third generation” aircraft.

Now, the efforts in China and Pakistan are underway to move to the air-forces to the latest planes like SU-27K which is now called SU-33.

What about the SU-35? The original Su-35 was a derivative of the Su-27 and essentially a ground-based variant of the Su-33. While the official Russian Air Force designation for the aircraft remained the Su-27M, Sukhoi rechristened the model as the Su-35 in the hopes of attracting foreign customers. The Brazilians wanted to produce it but in the end opted for the Mirage IIIs.

The Brazilian decision appeared to have ended the Su-35 program once and for all since Sukhoi had little success finding other customers. Hopes were briefly revived in May 2006 when Venezuela announced interest in the Su-35, but the nation instead chose a variant of the Su-30. The move is largely politically-motivated given recent tensions between Venezuela and the United States over America’s ban on providing support for the Venezuelan F-16 fleet. the Su-35 was revived at least in name in 2007 when Sukhoi announced the aircraft had entered production for the Russian Air Force. This incarnation is also a derivative of the Su-27.

A derivative of the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, the Su-37 is a super-maneuverable thrust vectoring fighter. Designed from an Su-35 prototype, the Su-37 test aircraft (designated T10M-11) made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor.

The whole article is rubbish. Thats all I can say. Some of the members must be disgused as well but thanks for the entertainment.

As a moderator, Aliph, I'll tell you to be careful with what you are posting. Credibility of the article matters here. Continuous posting of rubbish can get you in trouble.

 

[kams]

France, Pakistan Talking on Fighter

PARIS - France is in talks on providing high-tech missile and radar systems for a jet fighter that Pakistan is developing with China, a Defense Ministry official confirmed Tuesday.

Such a deal on Pakistan's JF-17 fighter would likely be opposed by the United States and Taiwan, analysts have said, out of concern that China could reap sensitive military technology.

Bruno Berthet, assistant director for international development at the French Defense Ministry, said France is considering such concerns as it works toward signing a provisional deal that could allow Pakistan to obtain air-to-air missiles from France's MBDA and radars from Thales (other-otc: THLEF.PK - news - people ).

No deal has been reached, "but the talks are on the right track, and there are diplomatic comings and goings between the two countries," Berthet told The Associated Press on the sidelines of a news conference. He said it was too early to say when a memorandum of understanding might be signed.

A deal would be a boon to French industry at a time when its overall economy has been lackluster, and government officials have been eager to support defense exports. A supply deal for the JF-17 fighter could be worth hundreds of millions of euros (dollars) to France, said Berthet.
The head of the French defense procurement agency, Francois Lureau, told the news conference that France's defense sector reaped an estimated 5.5 billion euros ($8.18 billion) worth of export contracts last year, and expected to reach 6 billion euros in 2008.

The MBDA missiles and radars similar to Thales' equip Taiwan's French-built Mirage fighters, and Taiwan's weapons systems could be compromised if Pakistan gave such know-how to China, Jane's Defense Weekly reported in September.

Berthet said there was "no pressure" from the United States, but acknowledged that French and American officials have held high-level talks over "a certain number of export principles."
"On the fighter plane, the French position is more ambitious than the American position," Berthet said. "Reciprocally, I note that the Americans export a certain amount of night-vision gear for Pakistan's land forces - which seems to us sensitive for other reasons."

Good News for PAF.

 

[kams]

Latest AW&ST has an article on FC-1 titled 'Improvement planned for Chinese Fighter'. As I read the print edition of the magazine (Dated 25 Feb) in the library, I will reproduce some highlights.

1.Chinese Airforce will decide whether to purchase FC-1 in next 2 years.
2. The article has several statements from Mr. Li Pei. According to him further improvements will follow first production model.
3. One of the improvements would be addition of strong surface attack capability. Pei (or Fei?) says including that in the first production model would have been too much effort. 'For smart bombs, you need to do lot of integration' said Pei.
4. Stealth - 'We are considering doing that with cockpit, nose and inlet'. Changes would be based on new material rather than changes in airframe shape.
5. According to Li two radars have been developed, one is KLJ-7 (Type 1478) other comes from Wuxi.
Article talks about potential export customers, basic aircraft charecters etc.
I captured a pic of the article on my cellphone and reproduced the same here. Same article is available online if you subscribe to AW&ST.

 

[BilalK]

Sounds like the 2nd JF-17 batch (2011 on-wards) might use more composite materials. Would be interesting if they would use it as an opportunity to better streamline the airframe...i.e. mould the nose a bit more, blend the wings & fuselage better, etc.

 

[tphuang]

Latest AW&ST has an article on FC-1 titled 'Improvement planned for Chinese Fighter'. As I read the print edition of the magazine (Dated 25 Feb) in the library, I will reproduce some highlights.

1.Chinese Airforce will decide whether to purchase FC-1 in next 2 years.
2. The article has several statements from Mr. Li Pei. According to him further improvements will follow first production model.
3. One of the improvements would be addition of strong surface attack capability. Pei (or Fei?) says including that in the first production model would have been too much effort. 'For smart bombs, you need to do lot of integration' said Pei.
4. Stealth - 'We are considering doing that with cockpit, nose and inlet'. Changes would be based on new material rather than changes in airframe shape.
5. According to Li two radars have been developed, one is KLJ-7 (Type 1478) other comes from Wuxi.
Article talks about potential export customers, basic aircraft charecters etc.
I captured a pic of the article on my cellphone and reproduced the same here. Same article is available online if you subscribe to AW&ST.

looks like they finally got around to stuff I've been mentioning a while. If JF-17 does get ordered (which I think is likely), ground attack version is definitely a huge possibility. It all depends on how L-15 project is coming along though. As for drastic changes on JF-17, I personally don't see that as very important. To me, PAF should just buy J-10s or other more advanced fighters when they see such need.

 

[mysterious]

Two PAF F-16 fighters were flown to Hill AirForce Base, Utah [one F-16A, the other F-16B - two seater] as reported by AFM to act as 'pattern aircraft' for the MLU program for the remainder of PAF's '80s F-16s. Jst checking to see if any one has any information as to what the progress is on those & if the MLU program has now gotten underway?

 

[mysterious]

Six more JF-17 Thunder fighter jets inducted into PAF
* Advanced multi-role light combat aircraft jointly developed by Pakistan and China seen as capable of fulfilling PAF requirements up to middle of 21st century

ISLAMABAD: Six new JF-17 Thunder aircraft have recently been inducted into the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), taking the PAF’s tally of this new series of fighter jet to eight, including the two the air force inducted last year, the PAF said in a statement on Friday.

The JF-17 Thunder is an advanced multi-role light combat aircraft invested in and developed jointly by China and Pakistan. It is the result of a key strategic collaboration project between the two countries in the military field, the PAF statement said.

The JF-17 is equipped with state-of-the-art technology and is being seen as one of the most capable multi-role aircraft available, which should fulfil PAF requirements well into the middle of the 21st century. The government is also trying to procure the latest related missile technology from France to make the jets even more effective.

The PAF statement said the six additional JF-17s had been inducted in test and evaluation flights at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra, where they will be put through further testing and evaluation as part of the JF-17 development programme.

The statement said four of the jets will be on display at the National Day flypast on March 23. It also highlighted the major milestones achieved in the joint project so far. According to the statement, the first flight of the first prototype took place in August 2003, while the third prototype was flight-tested in April 2004.

In May 2006, the fourth prototype, with fully integrated configuration, made its successful maiden flight in Chengdu, China, while the sixth prototype took to the air in September 2006. President Pervez Musharraf was the chief guest at the arrival ceremony of the first JF-17 in Pakistan on March 21, 2007.

Recently, on January 22, this year, an inauguration ceremony for the manufacturing of JF-17 Thunder sub-assemblies was held at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra, at which Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed was the chief guest. Staff Report/Agencies

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\03\15\story_15-3-2008_pg7_6

Things are on track & perhaps even running ahead of schedule.

 

[bilalmunir919]

PAF FlyPass 2008

Here is the line up of Pak day parade Flypass 2008.
A single F 16 flown by air chief marshal will perform vertical rolls.
This willbe followed by a formation of four F 16.
Than the formation of four mirages.
Than four F 7P.
Than four A 5C phantoms.
Than there willbe a formation of four JF 17 performing bomburst.(I myself see them today.Interestingly they all carry sidewinders in flypass too).

 

[SABRE]

Pakistan has tested an indigenous UAV called "Aqab"

 

[ahmedsamir]

just simple question what is PAF choice when IAF get the Russian fifth generation fighter?

 

[SABRE]

just simple question what is PAF choice when IAF get the Russian fifth generation fighter?

Well PAF hasn't made itself public on 5th generation preference/options yet, so there isn't any answer to it.

 

[ahmedsamir]

Well PAF hasn't made itself public on 5th generation preference/options yet, so there isn't any answer to it.

is there any solution to defeat fifth generation fighter EX in air defense systems ... because some country will get some fifth generation fighters very soon like Australian air force & Israel air force & Indian air force & that will but some Muslim country in critical situation :shudder

 

[SABRE]

is there any solution to defeat fifth generation fighter EX in air defense systems ... because some country will get some fifth generation fighters very soon like Australian air force & Israel air force & Indian air force & that will but some Muslim country in critical situation :shudder

To be mature I would keep the Muslim sentiments out (& being the moderator I would advice you to keep away from it as well).

I don't think any country is going to receive 5th generation fighter "soon". There is still time. F-22s are not for sale & F-35 just finished the final tests & may be few units have hit the production line (correct me if I am wrong).

The Russia-India PAK-FA program has just started. I don't know if they have gotten off the drawing board & moved towards development but they still have to come up with the 1st prototype.

In the same neighborhood the Chinese are working on J-13 & J-14 which too have yet to develop into 1st prototype & according to some reports its not going to be before 2015.

So I guess 5th generation programs/projects have still lots of miles to travel. It is not an immediate concern for PAF but I guess PAF would have to be pro-active here.

 

[kay_man]

To be mature I would keep the Muslim sentiments out (& being the moderator I would advice you to keep away from it as well).

I don't think any country is going to receive 5th generation fighter "soon". There is still time. F-22s are not for sale & F-35 just finished the final tests & may be few units have hit the production line (correct me if I am wrong).

The Russia-India PAK-FA program has just started. I don't know if they have gotten off the drawing board & moved towards development but they still have to come up with the 1st prototype.

In the same neighborhood the Chinese are working on J-13 & J-14 which too have yet to develop into 1st prototype & according to some reports its not going to be before 2015.

So I guess 5th generation programs/projects have still lots of miles to travel. It is not an immediate concern for PAF but I guess PAF would have to be pro-active here.

Thats about right. the PAK-FA first prototypes are " expected " to appear by mid 2012, and serial production will not start any sooner than 2015.

although i dont see what all the fuss is about the stealth planes..to begin with no plane is completely invisible to current radars and the f-22 raptor is no exception. and even as we speak many countries might be finding new kinds or radars or detection systems to counter stealth... hell by the time stealth planes come out there will already be an antidote.:

 

[hassan1]

Paf Radars

how many radars used by pakistan air defence
what is the name of these ra

 

[T-Rex]

By the end of 2008 how many JF-17s are going to be built by the PAC?

 

[T-Rex]

PAC should focus on developing an indegenously built engine for its JF-17s.

 

[BilalK]

PAC should focus on developing an indegenously built engine for its JF-17s.

Well as far as we know Pakistan has no local engine development project, everything you will hear will be a rumour at worst or privy report at best. Pakistan might have a turbofan project for use on cruise missiles and perhaps UAVs depending on class & role. However anything for use on fighter aircraft will require a lot more time and investment. If Pakistan was indeed looking to produce its own engines, it would likely undertake development through a joint-venture or consortium. Though I wouldn't expect JF-17s to be equipped with Pakistani engines...best to wait for the next fighter.

 

[SABRE]

PAF includes Saab 2000 plane in its fleet

STOCKHOLM: The Pakistan Air Force has acquired state of the art Saab 2000 plane for its fleet.

PAF has termed the acquisition of Saab 2000 a milestone in boosting its aerial surveillance capacity. Saab 2000 is equipped with all the modern sophistications and has an excellent aerial defence capability.

The plane hand-over ceremony took place in Sweden; Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmad was also present on the occasion. According to PAF spokesman, inclusion of Saab 2000 is vital for meeting Pakistan’s security requirements and a big milestone in modernizing PAF fleet.

http://www.geo.tv/home/16281.htm

 

[P.A.F]

http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34374&Itemid=2

Saab 2000 aircraft rolls out, ready for installation of AEWC system

ISLAMABAD, Apr 3 (APP): Pakistan Air Force achieved a major landmark in its Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEWC) Program with the roll out of its first aircraft - SAAB 2000 AEWC - in a simple but impressive ceremony held at the Saab facility in Sweden.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force was the Chief Guest on the occasion.
On arrival the Air Chief was received by Ake Svensson, CEO of Saab.
The rolling out of the aircraft would pave way for the installation of survillance and airborne warning gadgetry and equipment. This work would soon be completed for its onward induction in PAF’s fleet.
Speaking on the occasion Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said the acquisition of airborne early warning capability by the PAF would greatly enhance PAF’s defensive capability and was an essential part of its modernization efforts.
He said the achievement of AEW & C capability will provide a much needed boost to Pakistan’s security needs.
The ceremony is considered an important milestone which ensures timely procurement of state-of-the-art technology of ERIEYE radar onboard Saab 2000 aircraft to PAF.
Also present on the occasion was Pakistan’s Ambassador to Sweden Mr. Shaheen Gilani and other officials.