That is correct.
Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
Ruined Iraq - they are rather moving along quite nicely now with their military infrastructure, and what specific equipment that some of these units will end up with is still being decided, there also a rumor that they may get M-84s. But yes - even though the Leclerc is a good tank, it does need a good maintenance support element that they would have a challenge with.Aye, another joke
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #283
It's weekend here now, I'm half-tempted to go into work and pull out the Janes report and scan it. I just can't find the thing.
Le Clerc in an urban environment Eck? I can only assume it would evolve similar (to TUSK) - but what about three crew?
Le Clerc in an urban environment Eck? I can only assume it would evolve similar (to TUSK) - but what about three crew?
GIAT offers a urban combat version for the Leclerc (Not Le Clerc ).
It's the AZUR (Action en Zone Urban). It has the usual upgrades like better RPG protection by more passive armor and some slat armor. It also features the same RWS like the one which is fielded already on some of the current Leclercs.
Which is also interesting is a sensor mast which shall increase situational awareness.
And one of the reasons for the UAE needing a really special Leclerc version was that they wanted to have a MTU engine in it (They possessed stocks of MTU during that time). The hull had to be lengthened which IMHO runs directly against the idea behind the Leclerc.
The other usual modifications for desert use (air condition, better filters,...) are normally not enough to justify a new designation.
).It's the AZUR (Action en Zone Urban). It has the usual upgrades like better RPG protection by more passive armor and some slat armor. It also features the same RWS like the one which is fielded already on some of the current Leclercs.
Which is also interesting is a sensor mast which shall increase situational awareness.
And one of the reasons for the UAE needing a really special Leclerc version was that they wanted to have a MTU engine in it (They possessed stocks of MTU during that time). The hull had to be lengthened which IMHO runs directly against the idea behind the Leclerc.
The other usual modifications for desert use (air condition, better filters,...) are normally not enough to justify a new designation.
They did have issues with the original engine pacts overheating, thus the reason why they went with a more dependable and trusted design.GIAT offers a urban combat version for the Leclerc (Not Le Clerc
It's the AZUR (Action en Zone Urban). It has the usual upgrades like better RPG protection by more passive armor and some slat armor. It also features the same RWS like the one which is fielded already on some of the current Leclercs.
Which is also interesting is a sensor mast which shall increase situational awareness.
And one of the reasons for the UAE needing a really special Leclerc version was that they wanted to have a MTU engine in it (They possessed stocks of MTU during that time). The hull had to be lengthened which IMHO runs directly against the idea behind the Leclerc.
The other usual modifications for desert use (air condition, better filters,...) are normally not enough to justify a new designation.
Never ever. I just don't believe this official statement and Frances experiences with their own Leclercs tell another story.
France tested the Leclerc intensively in hot African desert environments and frequently conducts maneuvers there.
The engine is working in these conditions.
They had MGTU stocks at the time of the purchase and pushed GIAT to integrate the MTU engine exactly because of that.
France tested the Leclerc intensively in hot African desert environments and frequently conducts maneuvers there.
The engine is working in these conditions.
They had MGTU stocks at the time of the purchase and pushed GIAT to integrate the MTU engine exactly because of that.
SaudiArabian
New Member
no
you were stating articles. not the contract. regarding the 1st link you qouted , its an article by Anthony H. Cordesman whom i know for some mistakes he had in his reports about the Saudi military on CSIS website or in that article as well. especially considering the fact that he sighted no source for it.
one of his mistakes in passing information to others which i just saw in the article you qouted when he said the purchase of Saudi F-15's in 1978. he didn't mention that KSA never received any F-15 untill 1981~1982 and he didn't even mention what type of F-15 it is [C and D types]
its not a link to the Peace Sun project. the restrictions were calls by the israeli lobby only , it is not things which taken place.
regarding the 2nd link you qouted , its an absured article for political agenda not for military analysis.
in 1988 , the Saudi F-15C's , E-3's and other aircrafts of RSAF flew over the north western region and successfully blocked the Saudi Air space infront of israel for 3 days to prevent israel from carrying out its threats to strike al Sulayyil base and neutralize the DF-3A missiles and its launchers which were recently aquired that time from China.
and since 2003 and there's a squadron of F-15C's stationed in KFAB in Tabuk and in the new base in Al Jawf. in the same year 4 squadrons (48 jets) of F-15S strike aircrafts were stationed in KFAB for exercise and israel protested it with no use because these protests didn't stop the exercise from taking place.
hence there's no such thing called "political restrictions" on our F-15's deployments and flights but there was only technical and tactical problems which restricted the RSAF in the past from such deployments which today is been solved.
its insane and a military suicide to put all of our F-15's in KFAB on the ground few minutes away from israel. it would be nothing more than politicaly-inspired action that may expose the RSAF for huge damage. we would be commiting Egypt's mistake when most of its airforce was destroyed on the ground. for that reason most of the F-15's of KSA can be found deep in KSA in safe bases and far away from israel to prevent it from any surprise attack and to avoid giving our F-15's on a plate of gold to israel by stationing them entirely in KFAB.
Cheers man, its funny I heard many times that the LeClerc was unreliable in the desert climate, usually in reference to the UAE's tanks, but until Waylander mentioned it I never heard that they used a different engine, and had to lengthen the hull to accommodate it. Sometimes I think its fashionable to disparage French kit.
So you are making the statement that the original Leclerc engine pac did not suffer reliability issues due to extreme temperatures, and that they only came up with this excuse so that they could run their reserve stock of MTU engines.Never ever. I just don't believe this official statement and Frances experiences with their own Leclercs tell another story.
France tested the Leclerc intensively in hot African desert environments and frequently conducts maneuvers there.
The engine is working in these conditions.
They had MGTU stocks at the time of the purchase and pushed GIAT to integrate the MTU engine exactly because of that.
In Singapore we use quite a fair amount of French equipment like choppers including Super Puma. AMX-10P and AMX-13 tanks. French stealth frigates. MILAN.
Most of the stuff work quite well, I think.
@Eckherl
Jup, exactly.
I don't say that there were never problems with the Leclerc in various fields. In the end most of the bad reputation of the Leclerc came from reports right after it's introduction where it faced the natural teething problems many new products have when they enter military service.
These problems have been solved by now and the French use their Leclercs often enough during desert maneuvers in Africa.
Rejecting the original French turbobar engine may have resulted in two things. The vehicle became longer and so heavier. One has to remember that the Leclerc is lighter than most other western MBTs even with the heaviest add-on armor due to this shorter hull without compromising anything else in comparison.
And I expect it to be less sportive with the MTU engine. While having the same hp (1500) the french turbobar is know for a really amazing acceleration.
If I had to chose from the various MBTs around the world an the Leo wouldn't exist I would most probably choose the Leclerc in it's T10 block for various reasons.
Jup, exactly.
I don't say that there were never problems with the Leclerc in various fields. In the end most of the bad reputation of the Leclerc came from reports right after it's introduction where it faced the natural teething problems many new products have when they enter military service.
These problems have been solved by now and the French use their Leclercs often enough during desert maneuvers in Africa.
Rejecting the original French turbobar engine may have resulted in two things. The vehicle became longer and so heavier. One has to remember that the Leclerc is lighter than most other western MBTs even with the heaviest add-on armor due to this shorter hull without compromising anything else in comparison.
And I expect it to be less sportive with the MTU engine. While having the same hp (1500) the french turbobar is know for a really amazing acceleration.
If I had to chose from the various MBTs around the world an the Leo wouldn't exist I would most probably choose the Leclerc in it's T10 block for various reasons.
Okay - I`ll buy that statement, and would have to agree that the Leclerc has evolved into a darn good performer with outstanding capabilities, most new equipment has teething problems that need to get worked out/resolved and the only way you can do that is get the equipment out into the field and see what exactally needs to be done. The Stryker MGS is a prime example of this.@Eckherl
Jup, exactly.
I don't say that there were never problems with the Leclerc in various fields. In the end most of the bad reputation of the Leclerc came from reports right after it's introduction where it faced the natural teething problems many new products have when they enter military service.
These problems have been solved by now and the French use their Leclercs often enough during desert maneuvers in Africa.
Rejecting the original French turbobar engine may have resulted in two things. The vehicle became longer and so heavier. One has to remember that the Leclerc is lighter than most other western MBTs even with the heaviest add-on armor due to this shorter hull without compromising anything else in comparison.
And I expect it to be less sportive with the MTU engine. While having the same hp (1500) the french turbobar is know for a really amazing acceleration.
If I had to chose from the various MBTs around the world an the Leo wouldn't exist I would most probably choose the Leclerc in it's T10 block for various reasons.
Thanks Extern:
So how did the initial testing runs go, has it been decided on what Saudi Arabia wants to do as far as purchasing.
It was mentioned a few threads ago that UAE may be looking at replacing their BMP3s with the Patria wheeled platform with a BMP3 turret, this will most likely happen due to the road mobility that this will offer, but they still intend on keeping their BMP3 also for cross country capabilities.
The Russians who are close to NTagil plant said it was OK. No problems they noted. However, what the Saudis have in their head I dont know. Personally, I dont think Saudis are serious in their expressed intention to buy T-90. I still think it's only a play to bargain with the Americans about high-tech weapon and with the Russians about their ties with Iran. Month before the Saudis with the moving long-expected by me, started to promote political conditions for Russia to stop military ties with Iran. Russia will never surrend to any political conditions nevertheless it can loss the Saudi orders.
SaudiArabian
New Member
thanks for the photos
, the 1st one is definitely in here. the 2nd one is probable.but i have doubts about the 3rd picture. (maybe it was taken in winter ?)
All three of them look like they're in Saudi. The third one could have been in the winter in the Empty Quarter (it gets pretty cold there).thanks for the photos
but i have doubts about the 3rd picture. (maybe it was taken in winter ?)
Awesome pictures!