China and South Korea do have some pretty good trade agreements going that seems to be benefiting both economies, one would wonder if China would think that it would be worth risking because of a country that needs a major change. I would also wonder if China would really be concerned with world opinion in regards to supporting a country that seems to shun the UN and let their people starve and live in poverty for the sole purpose of personal gain from a tyrant.
North Korea VS South Korea
- Thread starter yutong chen
- Start date
- Status
There are some who are not worried about uncle Kim but the high ranking officers in the military. They seem to be the ones who were pushing for the nukes to get some form of leverage to keep ROK at bay. They are also the ones who were thumbing their noses at China over the nuke issue.
True his number is counting, but that does not mean we don’t need worry about him. There at least two risks that may worth to worry about.
1) Will Kim gamble all he has because there is not much he going to lost when he is going to dead and want be the one in history to united Korea.
2) After Kim dead does the power transaction be smooth. Instability always exists when power transaction happens at non-democracy country.
Anyway this is off topic already. Let’s move back to the compare between the military powers of both sides. Should we?
Does anyone know more about troops training between both sides?
He's not that old - 60-something. His health is said to be poor (diabetes & heart trouble, IIRC, probably results of his grossly self-indulgent lifestyle), but with good health care he could live for many years. He gets the best health care money can buy in Russia & China, or from doctors willing to visit N. Korea.
My last digression . . .
Well - they really do not have anything better to do but train and work the fields and farms for food, which goes to them versus the people. Training for ROK forces is about on par with most modern militaries.
And as Swerve pointed out uncle Kim is not that old and with proper medical care he will most likely be around for quite some time unless his military decides to take him out because he has grown too soft to their standards. Please remember that these old farts have been around for quite some time and live very comfortable, with the atrocities that they are responsible for they very well know what will happen when it is over for them.
F-15 Eagle
New Member
Don't forget that Kim has 3 sons that one of them is likely to become the next communist president of North Korea. Though that wont be for awhile, the rumors of Kim being too sick and dieing are not true.
From what I have been told he seems to be alive and well, that would be interesting to see which son would take over, he will have to be largely accepted by the North Korean high command and they seem a little impatient with uncle Kim.
Incognito129
Banned Member
Your assumption here is that we think China is not a threat. It has repeated shown territorial ambitions towards North Korea, Taiwan and Tibet.
The US fully intends to attack China if need be. We have been constantly warning China and asking them for a peaceful moderization.
Dont kid yourself your Chinese, you are not American. Its obvious by the way you say things like the "US doesn't intend to attack".
Since when was China ever responsible? Last time I checked it was North Korea not China. You think people are fooled by this but its the opposite.
Words mean very little from a Communist country with no freedom of the press.
Believe me when I say this the US military has zero problem attacking China if need be.
Incognito129
Banned Member
Which trade agreements do they have?
I doubt any trade agreement between the countries would have a serious effect on China. Depending on the size of the agreement, it might seriously affect the trade balance of SK, as far as I know no such agreement as been made.
If you have forgotten, the US has been putting enormous pressure on China to reel in the rogue country, instead they went ahead and conducted a nuclear test. Recent advancements between the US and NK are most likely due to mr Kim's failing health and the leverage against China.
Last edited:
Please explain what this is supposed to mean. My Chinese what? Or is it a spelling mistake & you're still claiming to know my nationality better than I do? If so, I suggest you surrender immediately, since if us fiendish orientals :rotfl have superior skill than you in your own language, what chance do you stand when we apply our immense intellects to other areas?
nfloorl: I have already told you that my nationality is a matter of public record on this forum. I'd like to know why you think anyone should place any credence in the views of someone who can't even look up that simple piece of information, after having been pointed to it.
BTW, you've still given no indication of what the basis is of your claims to knowledge & understanding of N.E. Asian politics, economics & history. Care to enlighten us?
South Korean companies have invested quite a bit in China, their relationship is normalized to a point that on average you have over 20 air flights between the two on a daily basis, China is no fool, why jeapordize a relationship with a country that will invest in your future over a dying corrupt country that can do nothing but offer you bad credibility in the eyes of the world.
Where are you getting that Kim Jong Ill is near his death bed, Half of my family lives in ROK and they have not heard of this, we do know that he does have health issues and he has a personal doctor around him at all times but his ailments have not reached to that point to where he is going to be taking a dirt nap.
t68
Well-Known Member
Hi GuysPlease explain what this is supposed to mean. My Chinese what? Or is it a spelling mistake & you're still claiming to know my nationality better than I do? If so, I suggest you surrender immediately, since if us fiendish orientals :rotfl have superior skill than you in your own language, what chance do you stand when we apply our immense intellects to other areas?
I have already told you that my nationality is a matter of public record on this forum. I'd like to know why you think anyone should place any credence in the views of someone who can't even look up that simple piece of information, after having been pointed to it.
BTW, you've still given no indication of what the basis is of your claims to knowledge & understanding of N.E. Asian politics, economics & history. Care to enlighten us?
Maybe swerve is convict stock and has been transported back to the motherland
nfloorl: nfloorl: But back to topic
I cannot see this becoming bigger than it is, with all of Uncle Kim’s posturing I don’t think he really wants to the lose power base he has in country.
If he starts any thing there is a real risk he will lose power and as we all know power corrupts ,I think he will continue to play the US and Chinese to get what he wants as he knows the US/China have to much to lose if this becomes a hot war on the Korean peninsula .
As to who will win, if it is only north against the south, The south will but with devastating loses and there will only be losers in the end from the lives destroyed and the economic ruin of the economy, If it becomes a protracted war with the US and China joining against each other in my opinion it will be like the 1950/3 war it will become a stalemate ,Yes the Americans have the technology but the Chinese have to many boots on the ground , it will come down to who has the nerve and will to see it though to the end game
.Regards,
Tom
IMO, united Korea may present more a problem to them than a divided one. I seriously doubt that, even under the best of circumstances, the unification process will go smoothly- it may every well resemble what happened with North & South Yemen. "It's better to have a buejay in hand than a crane in the sky"- if united Korea stays even neutral, or worse, allies herself with Japan/Taiwan and/or USA against China it will be bad news indeed! And in the long run, territorial disputes will arise between a strong Korea and China.
I also remember an article in Aviation Week (10/04/04 issue) about F-15K that ROKAF is procuring- it talked about them meant to counter China.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/PUB_F-15K_Past_Now_Future_lg.jpg
www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=77326505...
Lastly, "land buffer" or not, direct access to the Sea of Japan will greatly improve China's position in the Far East.
Incognito129
Banned Member
Sure as soon as you enlighten the forum of your blood line. Are you that ashamed of who you are that you need to pretend? Oh wait its now about your "nationality".Please explain what this is supposed to mean. My Chinese what? Or is it a spelling mistake & you're still claiming to know my nationality better than I do? If so, I suggest you surrender immediately, since if us fiendish orientals :rotfl have superior skill than you in your own language, what chance do you stand when we apply our immense intellects to other areas?
I have already told you that my nationality is a matter of public record on this forum. I'd like to know why you think anyone should place any credence in the views of someone who can't even look up that simple piece of information, after having been pointed to it.
BTW, you've still given no indication of what the basis is of your claims to knowledge & understanding of N.E. Asian politics, economics & history. Care to enlighten us?
Dont try to claim ignorance when you started this. You can cry about poor China and then turn around and act like you are trying to be objective. I can't change that, but neither does US intentions against China.
The US is dying to bomb the shit out of China.
Either way dont overrate your rate of military tech growth just because the Russians are willing to sell.
Last edited:
Incognito129
Banned Member
News? Try any news agency, MSNBC, CBS, WP.
Here since you apparently dont read the news,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18923894/
I have no idea why South Koreans haven't heard of this, I'd figure they'd be the first know but I dont live there.
What is your agenda?
Do you dream about the US bombing the **** out of China?
As if the US wouldn't know that a war against China is not in their interest and vice versa.
The US would gain nothing from pushing for an armed conflict with China.
BTW, just like Swerve I am no Chinese...just to make it clear before you go onto another rampage.
I am not american though...
-----------
Back to topic
As Eckherl rightly pointed out, one should not underrate the armed forces of NK.
Especially if bad weather diminishes the availability and power of air assets which SK and the US can bring to bear against the NK assault during the first days of an assault.
Everything in range of NK artillery is going to get pounded hard, really hard. And I am sceptical of the ability of SK and US counterfire and airstrikes to reduce the NK artillery very fast. We are talking about a lot of guns and rocket launchers firing out of fortified positions and bunkers rendering anything else than a direct hit nearly useless.
Eckherl is the expert and already said some things about the terrain over there.
This terrain is also one of the reasons why superior tech is going to have less of an impact (I don't say "no impact"!) onto this battle.
And I don't want to think about the masses of refugees flooding out of the cities because of the artillery pounding the northern ones and Taepedongs hitting the ones further south.
I think that the chances of NK winning such a war are relatively slim but they could make the south pay a huge price.
And maybe they could make the price that high that everything goes back to zero when they are pushed back to the former DMZ by the remains of the ROKA and US reinforcements.
SK and the US may not be willing to fight all the way up north and instead push for a peace agreement.
Do you dream about the US bombing the **** out of China?
As if the US wouldn't know that a war against China is not in their interest and vice versa.
The US would gain nothing from pushing for an armed conflict with China.
BTW, just like Swerve I am no Chinese...just to make it clear before you go onto another rampage.
I am not american though...
-----------
Back to topic
As Eckherl rightly pointed out, one should not underrate the armed forces of NK.
Especially if bad weather diminishes the availability and power of air assets which SK and the US can bring to bear against the NK assault during the first days of an assault.
Everything in range of NK artillery is going to get pounded hard, really hard. And I am sceptical of the ability of SK and US counterfire and airstrikes to reduce the NK artillery very fast. We are talking about a lot of guns and rocket launchers firing out of fortified positions and bunkers rendering anything else than a direct hit nearly useless.
Eckherl is the expert and already said some things about the terrain over there.
This terrain is also one of the reasons why superior tech is going to have less of an impact (I don't say "no impact"!) onto this battle.
And I don't want to think about the masses of refugees flooding out of the cities because of the artillery pounding the northern ones and Taepedongs hitting the ones further south.
I think that the chances of NK winning such a war are relatively slim but they could make the south pay a huge price.
And maybe they could make the price that high that everything goes back to zero when they are pushed back to the former DMZ by the remains of the ROKA and US reinforcements.
SK and the US may not be willing to fight all the way up north and instead push for a peace agreement.
Incognito129
Banned Member
He got pretty angry the last time I mentioned US attacking China, I thought i'd mention it again.
M.A.D. has always been N.K. position. I wouldn't over-estimate the regime's control over the general pop, there is a strong chance that they will naturally align with the Southern Koreans. Complete poverty and starvation are excellent motivators.
What type of control that they may have over the general population will not matter during the initial stages of the war, the verdict for that will be after the ROK starts to eat into North Korean territory and gains the upper hand in the war, U.S soldiers should not be used for the reason of public North Korean opinion on Americans, they have been taught at birth that we are the most evilest people roaming the planet and what we will do to them is 10 times worse than what the Japanese did to them during occupation times, this could be a motivator for them to fight us til death so to speak. Their military is highly motivated and they are well fed, all food priorities go straight to them with the public having to rely on handouts from Charity groups and governments from around the world, plus what they can hide and scavenge. Kim Jong Ill is most likely hated by the average North Korean, but when you spent your life in silence versus getting sent to a Gulag or getting shot out right, reality will have to pretty much be staring them in the face before they make a move.
Hi,
I just want to post a comparsion between the north and the south.
Source: Defense White Paper 2006 Ministery of National Defence, Rep. of Korea (English version)
South / North
Total Troops: 674,000 / 1,170,000
Army: 541,000 / 1,000,000
Navy: 68,000 / 60,000
AF: 65,000 / 110,000
Tanks: 2,300 / 3,700
Amoured Vehicles: 2,500 / 2,100
Field Artillery: 5,100 / 8,500
MLRS: 200 / 4,800
Suface to Suface: 20 / 80
War Ships: 120 / 420
Landing Vessels: 10 / 260
Support Vessels: 20 / 30
Submarines: 10 / 60
Fighters: 500 / 820
Special Aircraft: 80 / 30
Support Aircraft: 190 / 510
Hellicopters: 680 / 310
Reserve Forces: 3,040,000 / 7,700,000
I hope it is helpful.
Evripide.
I just want to post a comparsion between the north and the south.
Source: Defense White Paper 2006 Ministery of National Defence, Rep. of Korea (English version)
South / North
Total Troops: 674,000 / 1,170,000
Army: 541,000 / 1,000,000
Navy: 68,000 / 60,000
AF: 65,000 / 110,000
Tanks: 2,300 / 3,700
Amoured Vehicles: 2,500 / 2,100
Field Artillery: 5,100 / 8,500
MLRS: 200 / 4,800
Suface to Suface: 20 / 80
War Ships: 120 / 420
Landing Vessels: 10 / 260
Support Vessels: 20 / 30
Submarines: 10 / 60
Fighters: 500 / 820
Special Aircraft: 80 / 30
Support Aircraft: 190 / 510
Hellicopters: 680 / 310
Reserve Forces: 3,040,000 / 7,700,000
I hope it is helpful.
Evripide.
- Status