Can we steer this back to South and North Korea going at it toe to toe, lets all pretend that the big boys will just stand back and let this old feud get settled between the two of them. How would south Korea attack North Korea, what kind of equipment will get the job done for them.
North Korea VS South Korea
- Thread starter yutong chen
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ROK will not attack NK in the present conditions- enough Korean blood been spilled already! In the future, both Koreas & China will have different order of battle, so, IMO, it's futile to play these war games now. I only expect China &/or ROK militaries crossing NK borders in a police-type operation to gain geoplitical/economic/strategic advantages. For wargaming, I would rather start comparing combined NK & PRC militaries with ROK capability. Without even going in depth, I can already say that the ROK should be thinking about preserving its assets and don't get drawn in- otherwise, Koreans will be killing each other & Chinese again, like 55 years ago!
nfloorl: No, not Chinese. You've not been paying attention. No, you said "US echelon will use it as an excuse to destroy and slowdown the growth of the chinese military. It doesn't matter if China wants to join or not, it will have to respond knowing US intentions".
That is, you said that the USA will use a war as an excuse to destroy the Chinese military, & China will have to react to that US threat. Apply logic to that, if you will. Firstly, if the USA is not going to attack (& you state it intends to), there is no US threat, & the reason you state for China to fight is not present. Therefore, China fighting depends on the USA attacking, or making a credible (& it ain't credible if they don't intend to do it) threat to attack China.
Indeed. But that is nothing to do with a Korean war. That is, as you said, if it destabilises. What they've said they would do is intervene to restore order if necessary. Specifically, they talk about securing weapons of mass destruction, & maintaining sufficient civil order to enable them to ship, or facilitate others shipping, essential supplies to the population, to prevent a mass exodus of population across the border. They've also said they'd seek a UN mandate & international co-operation first, though would go ahead without it if they considered it too urgent to wait. Does that sound like charging in to fight the South Koreans & USA?
Now we've got that over with, shall we return to a realistic discussion of how a possible war between the Koreas might proceed?
BTW, I strongly suggest that you adjust your tone.
F-15 Eagle
New Member
But South Korea likes us having our troops there, it helps keep a relationship with them, plus the South Korean president wants us troops to be there, in 2012 operation wartime control will be shifted to R.O.K. control but 25,000 U.S. troops will remain in the South, 60 miles south of the DMZ in a huge military base I think.
Tricky thing here is that the 1961 treaty still obliges China to render military aid to N. Korea if it is attacked. It doesn't commit China to a specific level of aid, AFAIK, but unless the Chinese could find a way to represent the S. Korean attack as a response to N. Korean aggression (they have no commitment to assist a N. Korean attack), they'd have to cough up, or be seen as willing to break treaties.
If S. Korea asks the USA to leave, it will leave.
I think there is alot of people who seem to under estimate the capabilities of North Korea due to the poverty and economic issues plus the age of their weapons platforms. Neither China, U.S or ROK forces are going to enter that country without suffering a major loss of life, we should not forget that North Korea has been at a state of war with ROK now for quite some time, they have gun positions laid out in the sides of mountains, some of these systems actually have elavators that can move weapons from one position to the other as an example, now as a added bonus they have nukes and they would not hesitate to use them if cornered. With the terrian that would be fought over it really is not ideal for armored penetrations, artillery and ground pounders will rule that fight with tanks providing indirect fire support, for this the only edge that I see will come in the form of air and naval assets. Would any of the big three eventually win that fight yes, but with the amount of bloodshed and destruction that would happen it is just not worth the risk from a dedicated enemy opponent like North Korea. Most likely approach is to let this hungry tiger die from the inside out, then will come the issue between China and South Korea on how this will be handled properly, China will have to walk lightly with the ROK because of the size of their economy and military and due to ROKs friendship with the U.S.. I have talked to ROK officers over dinner and drinks and have asked them who they felt their future enemy would be and the majority of them felt that it will be China, as a surprise they never mentioned Japan as a future threat and felt that they should have more of a military cooperation with them, even though they do not trust them, they actually have learned to not trust anyone. just my two bits that i would like to add.
No we will not, the only reason why we are there is because the ROK asked us to stay, Rumsfield was ready to make that move and there were plans drawn up to make it happen.
Ozzy Blizzard
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Thats what happened in the philipines IIRC. They asked and you guys left. Why would ROK be any different???
Ozzy Blizzard
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Things would definatly be tough for the south if the U.S. and ROK went at it with the north. The civilian casualties will be massive ammongst ROK population centres, and things would be tough on the ground for the grunts thats for sure.
However all of these defenceive positions and postures are geared toward the south. I doubt PROC would have any were near as much trouble as ROK. A lightning mechanised thrust over the yalu might just see chinese tanks in pyonyang in a matter of hours. You have to wonder how robust NK's C3ISR capability really is. With a few precise strikes and deep mechanised penitrations that dont have to deal with all of those fortifications, the whole political/military structure would fall apart IMO.
Agreed - and that is another bad situation for the 2nd ID, the majority of its fighting force is within artillery range. They were wanting to move them further south but this is still being decided.
What i want to know is if they go to war with ROK could they sustain it, do they have the ammunition and food to sustain an all out assult against ROK, there have been weapon importation restrictions for some time now, wouldn't most of their shells be rusting in their bunkers?
It is very unlikely for China to join in the war at least not before try everything to bring both sides to UN and solve it there.
China sees every crisis like this one as mirror image of herself with Taiwan, she always state “No country should militarily involve into other country’s internal problem, the right way is through negotiation with UN help.” I doubt China will switch her position on this easily. Unless US jump in without UN approve once again, but even then I still doubt that China will directly involve, she may support/sell NK weapon but she will not send in her army.
China will only directly join in this war when someone attacks her. If anyone believes that US will use this as an excuse/opportunity to invade and weakening China better add Russia into his/her equation as well. Will Russia just stand by? You are likely talking about beginning of WWIII here, both sides knows the risk very well and it is unlikely for ether side to push it too far. So please leave other country out of this.
North Korea is sure out gun by South Korea, but I’m more interested on the training of its troops. If they still inhumanly train their elite troops as they use to and still have high control of it(The army still have high moral). Then its military force should not be tread lightly by any means, especially at north part of Korea which mainly cover by hills and mountains. Think about the war between Iraq and Iran.
PS: With today's Weapon Tech NK no longer able acts as buffer zone for China. And Chinese government no longer treads Capitalism as enemy. And the relation between China and SK is quite good. Therefore, even Korea united is not a huge bad news for China.
China sees every crisis like this one as mirror image of herself with Taiwan, she always state “No country should militarily involve into other country’s internal problem, the right way is through negotiation with UN help.” I doubt China will switch her position on this easily. Unless US jump in without UN approve once again, but even then I still doubt that China will directly involve, she may support/sell NK weapon but she will not send in her army.
China will only directly join in this war when someone attacks her. If anyone believes that US will use this as an excuse/opportunity to invade and weakening China better add Russia into his/her equation as well. Will Russia just stand by? You are likely talking about beginning of WWIII here, both sides knows the risk very well and it is unlikely for ether side to push it too far. So please leave other country out of this.
North Korea is sure out gun by South Korea, but I’m more interested on the training of its troops. If they still inhumanly train their elite troops as they use to and still have high control of it(The army still have high moral). Then its military force should not be tread lightly by any means, especially at north part of Korea which mainly cover by hills and mountains. Think about the war between Iraq and Iran.
PS: With today's Weapon Tech NK no longer able acts as buffer zone for China. And Chinese government no longer treads Capitalism as enemy. And the relation between China and SK is quite good. Therefore, even Korea united is not a huge bad news for China.
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If needed the U.S would be able to provide air and naval assets rather quickly, Guam and maybe Japan would be a our permanent airports and we do have a rather large naval presence in that area based out of Japan. I feel that this type of support is needed more that boots on the ground plus ROK could handle that aspect of the war. We had a saying in the 2nd ID and that was all we were to the North Koreans was a speed bump.
They do manufacture their own munitions, also if a war was to break out it would be over rather quickly with a major loss in human life, and as Ozzy Blizzard pointed out the casualties among ROK civilians would be shocking. You really do not have alot of real estate to fight in over there.
I agree that there really isn`t that much in defensive positions along the Yalu, one can see the amount of North Koreans sneaking into China as witness to that. But one would wonder how South Korea would feel with such a move coming from China.
The one we need worry is Mr. Kim not NK people. If anything endangers his position I do not know what he will do. If he still in control and comfortable we will have nothing to worry about.
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