Amphibious ships for small navies

[swerve]

I've been thinking recently, provoked by some of the topics discussed here, about the variety of amphibious ships used by small(ish) navies, & the concepts behind them, & I'd like to hear some opinions on them.

It seems to me that a small navy cannot consider mounting a significant opposed amphibious assault, & most small navies clearly don't attempt to equip themselves for such a task. What quite a few do have, however, is shipping intended to land and/or support small forces for peacekeeping, stabilisation operations, & small-scale operations in wartime. The different approaches are interesting.

Singapore, for example, has 4 full-on amphibious ships, which is quite an impressive force for a small fleet. The ships are not large - 6000 tons - and are officially called LSTs, but I'd call 'em LSDs. Four of them - well deck, helicopter - Endurance class.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2001/apr/07apr01_nr/07apr01_fs.html
http://images.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/gallery/imdex_show_gallery/imdex_07.jpg

The Danish Absalon class is about the same size, but a very different creature. No dock, faster, much more heavily armed - but a good-size ro-ro cargo-cum-vehicle deck, & fast boats with a launching ramp. An interesting multi-purpose concept, a fighting ship with some troop-carrying & landing ability. Two built.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/
http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/TheShips/Classes/Absalon_Class(2004).htm

The RNZN approach is different again, a slightly heavier ship but firmly in the transport rather than fighting category. Based on a commercial ro-ro design, but able to support helicopter operations & deploy landing craft, though only in relatively benign sea states, lacking a dock: the MRV HMNZS Canterbury - http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/cant/default.htm
http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/project-protector/mrv-lcm.htm

The Irish are considering buying a similar vessel.

Portugal has a project for a single "Multirole logistics ship", which seems to be an LPD, maybe 10000 tons or so, & this fits in with most proposals recently, with a variety of militarised ro-ros & LHDs/LPDs with limited assault but good logistics capability put forward.

What think you? Which type of ship best suits? Or is it a case of horses for courses, rather than one size fits all? And is it a mistake to buy a single ship?

 

[hallo84]

I've been thinking recently, provoked by some of the topics discussed here, about the variety of amphibious ships used by small(ish) navies, & the concepts behind them, & I'd like to hear some opinions on them.

It seems to me that a small navy cannot consider mounting a significant opposed amphibious assault, & most small navies clearly don't attempt to equip themselves for such a task. What quite a few do have, however, is shipping intended to land and/or support small forces for peacekeeping, stabilisation operations, & small-scale operations in wartime. The different approaches are interesting.

Singapore, for example, has 4 full-on amphibious ships, which is quite an impressive force for a small fleet. The ships are not large - 6000 tons - and are officially called LSTs, but I'd call 'em LSDs. Well deck, helicopter - Endurance class.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2001/apr/07apr01_nr/07apr01_fs.html
http://images.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/gallery/imdex_show_gallery/imdex_07.jpg

The Danish Absalon class is about the same size, but a very different creature. No dock, faster, much more heavily armed - but a good-size ro-ro cargo-cum-vehicle deck, & fast boats with a launching ramp. An interesting multi-purpose concept, a fighting ship with some troop-carrying & landing ability.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/
http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/TheShips/Classes/Absalon_Class(2004).htm

The RNZN approach is different again, a slightly heavier ship but firmly in the transport rather than fighting category. Based on a commercial ro-ro design, but able to support helicopter operations & deploy landing craft, though only in relatively benign sea states, lacking a dock: the MRV HMNZS Canterbury - http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/cant/default.htm
http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/project-protector/mrv-lcm.htm

The Irish are considering buying a similar vessel.

Portugal has a project for a single "Multirole logistics ship", which seems to be an LPD, maybe 10000 tons or so, & this fits in with most proposals recently, with a variety of militarised ro-ros & LHDs/LPDs with limited assault but good logistics capability put forward.

What think you? Which type of ship best suits? Or is it a case of horses for courses, rather than one size fits all? And is it a mistake to buy a single ship?

Can a 6000ton ship host a battalion sized detachment? My gess would be a coy sized detachment at best...

It really depend on the operation requirements. I guess if you want an independent unit say at Bn size plus vehicles then you'd want a larger boat but if you are contempt with small scale operations then a smaller boat that only support coy level units might be more economical.

 

[kato]

Can a 6000ton ship host a battalion sized detachment? My gess would be a coy sized detachment at best...

Italy's older San Giorgios fit something like one battalion with vehicles in surge capacity, along with 5 large helos, at around 8000 tons.

Company-sized detachments, quite seriously, go on LSTs/LSMs. Example being the French "Guepard Intervention Coys" prepositioned with their 1500-ton BATRALs.
Old (post-WW2) USN "LSTs" in the 6000-8000 ton category hosted similar numbers - typically such ships in this category, past and present, can carry around 400-500 troops plus their vehicles at "normal capacity", with capacity for another 200 or so at surge. Of course, in particular in "present" ships, this is usually only due to them carrying aviation facilities as well.
The - quite numerous - number of 4000 ton LSTs around usually carry half that (around 300 soldiers plus equipment).

 

[gvg]

I've been thinking recently, provoked by some of the topics discussed here, about the variety of amphibious ships used by small(ish) navies, & the concepts behind them, & I'd like to hear some opinions on them.
........

I would like to know what you consider small navies.
I mean, do you consider the dutch navy a small navy? Because the 2 amphibious ships they have are a bit larger than the ones mentioned so far. Let alone if they actually build that Joint Support Ship they have in their mind, that thing should be about 26000t.
Or the south african navy, is that small? Last i've heard is they are looking at an amphibious ship that is easily more than 10000t.

 

[kato]

The Portuguese or New Zealand Navies are quite a bit smaller than the South-African or Dutch ones. South Africa has the biggest navy on their continent (with only the Egyptian Navy coming equal in capabilities), and their planned LPD is quite related to that role.
Belgium, Romania, Bulgaria, Uruguay or - at the upper end - Vietnam would be other examples for small navies.

 

[harryriedl]

The Portuguese or New Zealand Navies are quite a bit smaller than the South-African or Dutch ones. South Africa has the biggest navy on their continent (with only the Egyptian Navy coming equal in capabilities), and their planned LPD is quite related to that role.
Belgium, Romania, Bulgaria, Uruguay or - at the upper end - Vietnam would be other examples for small navies.

Slight nit pick Kato the South African vessel is and LHD as both designs seem to be though deck designs.

is Belgium in the market for one of theses small designs.

How about Greece they will eventually need a replacement for there LST's and something with a dock and good heli facilities seems to be the order of the day.

i do feel that the designs are all part of each countries national preference. Stan flex for Danemark,commercial design [a follow on from Charles upman which also was a civvy design].

 

[kato]

Slight nit pick Kato the South African vessel is and LHD as both designs seem to be though deck designs.

The TKMS offer is not through-deck (it has a almost-through-deck helo deck and a separate "multirole" deck with helo facilities at the stern).

is Belgium in the market for one of theses small designs.

Nope. Belgium is pretty closely tied to the Dutch and French navies in those regards...

How about Greece they will eventually need a replacement for there LST's and something with a dock and good heli facilities seems to be the order of the day.

Greece has just (finally) finished building five new "classic" 4500-ton LSTs in the past 5 years (Jason class). Their primary amphibious concern is the Aegean Sea, which isn't really friendly to 10,000-ton ships, and not really something where you need a dock ship (you can traverse it with a LCAC by itself...).

 

[harryriedl]

The TKMS offer is not through-deck (it has a almost-through-deck helo deck and a separate "multirole" deck with helo facilities at the stern).


Nope. Belgium is pretty closely tied to the Dutch and French navies in those regards...

Greece has just (finally) finished building five new "classic" 4500-ton LSTs in the past 5 years (Jason class). Their primary amphibious concern is the Aegean Sea, which isn't really friendly to 10,000-ton ships, and not really something where you need a dock ship (you can traverse it with a LCAC by itself...).

to me the TKMS design seems to have a though deck as all the pictues i have seen it has an offset island
http://www.decisionsupport5.co.za/d.../Theme_3_Panel_Bernd_Woelfer_presentation.pdf
the picture on the 1st page seems to show a proper though deck with the mulitrole deck at the back so i count it as a MHD if you will disagree with it being designated as LHD
thysssenkrup describe it as an LHD on page 32

 

[gvg]

....
is Belgium in the market for one of theses small designs.
....

They did once have a plan to buy a NTBL (Navire de Transport Belgo-Luxembourgois) together with Luxemburg. It should have been about the size of the RN Bay-class and the dutch Johan de Witt (if memory serves me well), but it definately wasn't "small".
It stood in some plan for the defence forces. The "Strategisch Plan 2000-2015" I think. But the idea was eventually (2003?) abandoned because it would be too expensive. (If I recall correctly the Luxemburgers had already pulled out earlier.)

I don't think they have any plans to buy such a vessel, or a smaller one at the moment. They've just bought those frigates from the Dutch and I guess they have no money left to buy more ships.

 

[StingrayOZ]

What makes up a small navy?

Dutch, Australian, Canada, South Africa, Korea, Spain are in a whole seperate class in which can operate full sized LHD's (bar a fleet of american LHD's). I would call them medium-large navys.

NZ, lesser extent singapore, Belgium, Ireland, etc are definately in a very different class again. These are small navies.

The large navies are looking at 10,000+t ships (some are looking closer to 30,000t ships). Carrying upto 6-30 helo's, 750-1,500 personel, heavy vechicals etc. They are assult ships.

The smaller navys would never operate this kind of equipment. The Australian canberra class could proberly hold the entire active NZ combat army by itself and the entire rotory airwing of NZDF and most of its heavy vechicals.

Smaller navies and defence forces would be better suited around a ship like the Canterbury. <9,000t 250-450 troop lift and some vechicals. Even NZ's choice is a bit on the large side, but then again they need something blue water capable.

 

[Sea Toby]

Ireland is looking for something much smaller, an enlarged OPV with a good sized helicopter landing deck, much like the Danish Absalon, possibly frigate sized, 4000-tons, for around 100 million Euros. If one is successful, they are thinking in terms of adding another. While a ro-ro capability will be nice, they don't necessarily need a ro-ro vessel, as long as a port's cranes can load and unload the cargo. They would be happy just to move the army to a port, what New Zealand's maritime review called strategic sea lift. But they want a ship which has no handicap as a patrol ship. They see the Canterbury as a sea going bath tub.

It appears New Zealand wished for a small LPD and settled for a converted ferry design. Ireland wants something smaller and better for them.

 

[mattyem]

What makes up a small navy?

Dutch, Australian, Canada, South Africa, Korea, Spain are in a whole seperate class in which can operate full sized LHD's (bar a fleet of american LHD's). I would call them medium-large navys.

NZ, lesser extent singapore, Belgium, Ireland, etc are definately in a very different class again. These are small navies.

The large navies are looking at 10,000+t ships (some are looking closer to 30,000t ships). Carrying upto 6-30 helo's, 750-1,500 personel, heavy vechicals etc. They are assult ships.

The smaller navys would never operate this kind of equipment. The Australian canberra class could proberly hold the entire active NZ combat army by itself and the entire rotory airwing of NZDF and most of its heavy vechicals.

Smaller navies and defence forces would be better suited around a ship like the Canterbury. <9,000t 250-450 troop lift and some vechicals. Even NZ's choice is a bit on the large side, but then again they need something blue water capable.

I dont think the canberra class can quite hold all that lol

 

[StevoJH]

I dont think the canberra class can quite hold all that lol

Canberra Class are to hold a Battlion plus all support attachments each. They are also supposed to have a standard helicopter carriage of 18 helicopters (12 MRH90 + 6 Tigers), however the class is designed to carry up to 30 helicopters.

So between the two ships, yeah, they could just about carry all of New Zealands active combat formations.

 

[Red]

Singapore, for example, has 4 full-on amphibious ships, which is quite an impressive force for a small fleet. The ships are not large - 6000 tons - and are officially called LSTs, but I'd call 'em LSDs. Four of them - well deck, helicopter - Endurance class.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/new...7apr01_fs.html
http://images.janes.com/defence/nava...y/imdex_07.jpg

It has been reported that the full load is about 8500 tons. Honestly, I dont know if SAF is intentionally under-reporting the tonnage as well. As mentioned, it is effectively a LSD with a large well dock for amphibious operations. However, RSN calls them LSTs. Here is the brochure for your perusal;

http://http://www.stengg.com/upload/572N81fXA1DTA3OViRd.pdf

Specifications

Type: Landing Platform Dock
Displacement: 6,500 tonnes (light)
> 8,500 tonnes (fully loaded)
Length: 141.0 m (463 ft)
Beam: 21.0 m (69 ft)
Draught: 5.0 m (16 ft)
Ramps: Two (Bow and stern)
Installed power: Four Ruston 6RK215 generators (700kW each)
Propulsion: Two Ruston 16RK 270 diesels (5000kW each) coupled to two Kamewa controllable pitch propellers
Bow thruster
Speed: 20 knots (37 km/h)
Range: 5,000 nautical miles (9,000 km)

Boats and landing
craft carried: Four 13m Fast Craft Equipment & Utility (FCEU) on davits
Four 25m Fast Craft Utility (FCU) inside well dock.

Capacity: 18 tanks, 20 vehicles/IFVs and bulk cargo
Troops: 350
Crew: 65 (8 officers and 57 men)
Sensors and
processing systems: IAI/ELTA EL/M-2238 air search radar
Kelvin Hughes Type 1007 I-band navigation radar
CS Defense NAJIR 2000 electro-optronic director

Electronic warfare
and decoys: RAFAEL RAN 1101, intercept and jammer
Two GEC Marconi Marine Shield III 102 mm sextuple fixed chaff/decoy launcher

Armament: Mistral missiles on several launchers
One Oto Melara 76 mm super rapid gun
Two M242 Bushmaster 25 mm automatic cannon
Four CIS 50 12.7 mm machine guns

Aircraft carried: AS 332M Super Puma or AS532UL/AL Cougar or CH-47SD Chinook helicopters

Aviation facilities: Flight deck & hangar for two helicopters

 

[OPSSG]

Thanks to the Royal Thai Navy, the Endurance class ships are not orphans (ie. another country has ordered it). The deal is reported to be worth $191.3 million.

The Endurance class ships have a manning level of 65, with accommodation for over 240 crew.

The ship's form, a twin screw displacement hull form with a bulbous bow, is designed with several considerations in mind, including speed, range, seakeeping, dockwell and helicopter operations, stability and shallow water operations. The seakeeping of the ship is enhanced by large bilge keels to provide for passive roll damping.

The stem of the ship is equipped with a wide stern door / ramp for the deployment of various types of landing craft from a dock facility at the aft. The dock is of sufficient size for four landing craft.

The bow is fitted with a bow door / ramp capable of transloading tracked and wheeled vehicles of up to MLC 60 onto the tank deck. The bow door / ramp is designed to meet the latest International Maritime Organization (IMO) regulations. Two 25 tonne capacity deck cranes have been provided on the main deck of the vessel. This allows the loading and unloading of equipment and stores to be carried out from the main deck to and from shore, as well as to and from other craft alongside.

There is a flight deck that accommodates two medium-sized helicopters (in sea conditions up to sea state 5). A helicopter securing and traverse system is provided to secure the helicopters and traverse the helicopters to and from the hangar.

The ship is designed to meet both the German Navy Standards for stability as well as the latest IMO requirements for Ro-Ro vessels for damaged stability. Vital areas are hardened to withstand a certain degree of shock due to underwater explosions. Vital equipment such as major shipboard, navigation, communication and combat systems are shock mounted.

In operation since 1999, RSS Endurance had circumnavigated the globe, participated in humanitarian relief operations and have been deployed in the Persian Gulf. In fact, 3 of the 4 Endurance Class vessels were deployed to Meulaboh and Banda Aceh after the Dec 2004 Tsunami (click on this link for a free ebook on SAF's "Operation Flying Eagle" deployment). The RSS Endurance set sail on 31 Dec 2004 and arrived at Meulaboh on 2 Jan 2005, carrying:

(i) 470 people (including a field hospital);
(ii) 51 vehicles and heavy equipment; and
(iii) 350 pallets and crates of relief supplies.

Upon RSS Endurance's arrival, with its 4 x FCU/FCEP, relief supplies could be moved into Meulaboh at 20 times the rate before its arrival. The RSAF Super Pumas and Chinooks would refuel on RSS Endurance in between sorties.

Learning from the Dec 2004, Tsunami, the SAF designed a field hospital comprising of 4 containers to enable easier deployment in humanitarian relief operations. Each air-conditioned container, can be expanded to increase its size three-fold. One major and a minor surgery can be performed simultaneously in the enlarged operating theatre. The other three containers can be expanded to include X-ray facilities and a laboratory, a six-bed general ward, and a high dependency care unit stocked with equipment like those in an intensive care unit in a hospital.

The RSS Resolution had also been involved in replenishing Iraqi Navy ships to extend their endurance and have taken charge of coalition and Iraqi Navy ships (as scene of action commander) to defend Iraq's oil platforms, while on deployment there.

 

[KiwiRob]

What makes up a small navy?

Dutch, Australian, Canada, South Africa, Korea, Spain are in a whole seperate class in which can operate full sized LHD's (bar a fleet of american LHD's). I would call them medium-large navys.

NZ, lesser extent singapore, Belgium, Ireland, etc are definately in a very different class again. These are small navies.

Now why would you call the Singaporean Navy small and the South African navy medium large, the Singaporean Navy has considerably more men and ships than the South Africans.

The other really great thing about the Singaporean Navy is the excellent names they give there vessels, lots of good old RN names like Fearless, Vengance, Courageous, Victory, Valiant, Formidable........

 

[mattyem]

Canberra Class are to hold a Battlion plus all support attachments each. They are also supposed to have a standard helicopter carriage of 18 helicopters (12 MRH90 + 6 Tigers), however the class is designed to carry up to 30 helicopters.

So between the two ships, yeah, they could just about carry all of New Zealands active combat formations.

between two of them maybe, yes quite right

 

[StingrayOZ]

I don't see the Singers ever buying a 30,000t LHD.

Where it is possible the South Africans might. South Africa is a medium sized nation that is fairly poor with a tiny defence budget. The singapore is a small nation with a large defence budget but its still limited. But still a small nation. Like stereotypes and many forms of classifications, the real world aint that simple.

Singapore has a great navy, but I don't think they are going to move into really large medium power navy units. Like Spain and Australia are doing.

Thats why its important Australia gets the big stuff. Because no one else will regionally. We should have gone for 3 x LHD's...

 

[mattyem]

2 LHD's will prove more than sufficiant, Especially with the new government.
It would require a 'big' event in which the need for 3 LHD's are required.

In todays political situation around the world, The most use that the LHD'd will see aside from operational training will be disaster relief in the asian pacific region.

Adding one more LHD to the shopping list will stretch an already problomatic manning situation for the RAN when all of its new ships come online. With the manning issues already starting to affect operation deployments

 

[StevoJH]

2 LHD's will prove more than sufficiant, Especially with the new government.
It would require a 'big' event in which the need for 3 LHD's are required.

In todays political situation around the world, The most use that the LHD'd will see aside from operational training will be disaster relief in the asian pacific region.

Adding one more LHD to the shopping list will stretch an already problomatic manning situation for the RAN when all of its new ships come online. With the manning issues already starting to affect operation deployments

Assuming the RAN gets their hands on a couple of dozen NFH 90's to replace their Sea Hawks at some stage, the jobs that the LHD's will spend most of their time doing would probably be as an ASW Carrier.