where the devil would they get the F1:unknown also what number of planes are being bought
Croatian Armed Forces
- Thread starter NZLAV
- Start date
There are some out there, I think, in storage. South Africas were still stored the last I heard, & Kuwaits may still exist. With the Moroccan upgrade, it's still a respectable fighter. But it would be a very odd choice indeed for any air force that doesn't already operate it. I suspect it's a mistake.
It's no mistake. The F1 was officially presented to the Croatian airforce, a couple of years ago. The story was that the french thought we couldn't afford new built Mirage or Rafale at the time. I guess if the EF-2000 really does enter the bid, they may change their mind and offer something newer and better.
But bearing in mind how the Rafale faired in other bids, we can almost surely say it wont make a big difference
whats the front runner in this comapation i would have thought it would a JAS-39 kind of compationIt's no mistake. The F1 was officially presented to the Croatian airforce, a couple of years ago. The story was that the french thought we couldn't afford new built Mirage or Rafale at the time. I guess if the EF-2000 really does enter the bid, they may change their mind and offer something newer and better.
But bearing in mind how the Rafale faired in other bids, we can almost surely say it wont make a big difference
The JAS-39 is the most preferred choice(pilots are especially in favour of the Gripen), but we all know politics always plays a big role in these kind of decisions.
The other thing favouring the Gripen buy is the possible transfer of 2/4 Goteborg class corvettes that the swedes have kindly offered to us.
I'm also strongly in favour of the Gripen, not only it's best suited to our needs, but it is also small enough not to require completely new ground infrastructure(our hangars are suited to smaller aircrafts like MiG-21).
The other thing favouring the Gripen buy is the possible transfer of 2/4 Goteborg class corvettes that the swedes have kindly offered to us.
I'm also strongly in favour of the Gripen, not only it's best suited to our needs, but it is also small enough not to require completely new ground infrastructure(our hangars are suited to smaller aircrafts like MiG-21).
mic of orion
New Member
The JAS-39 is the most preferred choice(pilots are especially in favour of the Gripen), but we all know politics always plays a big role in these kind of decisions.
The other thing favouring the Gripen buy is the possible transfer of 2/4 Goteborg class corvettes that the swedes have kindly offered to us.
I'm also strongly in favour of the Gripen, not only it's best suited to our needs, but it is also small enough not to require completely new ground infrastructure(our hangars are suited to smaller aircrafts like MiG-21).
I agree, JAS39 is best and cheapest option for Croatian AF. Croatia will most likely choose JAS39 despite US political pressure to buy used or new F16.
Eurofighter is way to expansive and French have shot themselves in a foot by offering F1.
Russian Mig 35 is not even an option, it is not a NATO fighter, and has little commonality with other NATO fighters, and is way to expensive for Croatian needs.
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To be frank. They're replacing their ground kit before thinking of fighters. NATO wil defend their skies.
mic of orion
New Member
Excuse me, what ground gear, be specific, Croatia is already in NATO (practically), officially Croatia will be admitted in March, but it is all relative. NO Croatia declined offer of US Air Cover, it was offered in 2002 and 2003, few times and every time Croatia declined the offer.
If you talking of Ground based radars, Croatia already has these, I think someone was saying about new radars on this thread. US made radars were installed in 2005 and put in to full service last year. It had nothing to do with Croatia being in NATO or purchasing new fighters, it was just something Croatia needed as JNA took radars when they withdrew from Croatia in 1991.
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contedicavour
New Member
By the way, same for Slovenia. NATO countries alternate to provide air cover / interception.
cheers
mic of orion
New Member
Croatia agreed to buy US radars way back in 1998, 5 AN/FPS-117 phased array 3-dimensional air search radars were purchased from US at cost of 270 million USD. Radars were delivered in 2005 and installed/put in to service in 2007.
Croatia has total air cover.
As to fighters, Croatia currently fields 12+3 mig 21Bis which got Israeli upgrade in 2003/4, but these need to be replaced, Croatia is looking to get 12+2 Gripen JAS39 C/D or some other modern fighters, F16 Block 52+ and EF2000 are now in the game, used F16 was option but it was discounted as it was not seen as value for money.
Mig35 are also in the game as is F1 Mirage, but these two types are not real contenders. Mig35 are to expensive to run, they are not NATO compatible and Croatia is trying to move away from Russian military hardware due to unreliable Russian supply chain and French Mirage F1 are very old, Croatia needs new fighters, not obsolte fighters. As I said French shot them selves in a foot with that offer.
What Croatia really needs is a long range air defense missile, Croatia might buy some Crotale NG missiles from France, they are cheapest western option, have range of 11km or they might stick with the Russian Igla system SA13/SA9 I think, these have short range up to 6.5km and are quite old, Rolland II is another option, but these have quite short range as well. For a long range I think Croatia should be looking at Land based Aster SAM system. 3 Batteries of these would be enough for Croatian needs. But this is after 2012 when money is there to spend on such systems.
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Roland II has the same range as Crotale NG. Although the system has been rusting in depots the last couple years; only stock sale was 10 systems to Slovenia.
If you ask me i think our current modernization process is a complete disgrace no offense or anything. But we gotta be realistic. All weve seen is news papers saying how we are going to buy this or we are going to make this and on and on for years it has been going on. But so far nothing exept the radars we just fixed that we bought from the US.
So far our troops have been wearing army vests that were used way back in the homeland war. Second our artillery is in shambles worst thing yet is that we have very few compared to our neighboors. Not only do we have a small portion of artillery but most are obsolete . We dont even have proper communications for our troops on the ground like the data link ect...(even the serbians have that). Our tanks wich are obselete n again have only a few. The M-84D well come on its just a M-84 hyped on optronics and ERA nothing more. The M-95 has been scrapped, they didnt even upgrade it lol OK the VHS assault rifle, ya its good but it havent even entered production yet. They did not even finish or start on the 50 VHS rifles for testing in afghanistan. Dont even let me start talking about the navy The Mi-171sh what a waste of money!! Complete obsolete helicopter. It is basicly the same as Mi-8 with some bows and ties added to it nothing more.
Even the serbians which i am ashamed to say have done way better than us despite their economy if you compare with ours. Theyve already put the new assault rifles in production and already distributed throughout the army. They've even upgraded their artillery with the B-52 automatic howizer(what have weve done, just write BS on Wiki and reading fony newspapers) Theyve even got some troop communications(well not that many but theyve got it before us.) They distributed their balistic vests throughout their army, while ours are only in afghanistan and special forces.
All that we have done is just write newspapers and BS on wiki on what are we going to buy or make for our armed forces instead of actually doing something for our forces. While our neighboors have been doing just the opposite of what were doing( Which is actually building the armed forces)
I would show u guys examples and of what am i talking about but im not allowed to post ULRS till like 15 posts.
thnx, did not mean to mood the tone in this thread was not my intention.
So far our troops have been wearing army vests that were used way back in the homeland war. Second our artillery is in shambles worst thing yet is that we have very few compared to our neighboors. Not only do we have a small portion of artillery but most are obsolete
. We dont even have proper communications for our troops on the ground like the data link ect...(even the serbians have that). Our tanks wich are obselete n again have only a few. The M-84D well come on its just a M-84 hyped on optronics and ERA nothing more. The M-95 has been scrapped, they didnt even upgrade it lol OK the VHS assault rifle, ya its good but it havent even entered production yet. They did not even finish or start on the 50 VHS rifles for testing in afghanistan. Dont even let me start talking about the navy The Mi-171sh what a waste of money!! Complete obsolete helicopter. It is basicly the same as Mi-8 with some bows and ties added to it nothing more.Even the serbians which i am ashamed to say have done way better than us despite their economy if you compare with ours. Theyve already put the new assault rifles in production and already distributed throughout the army. They've even upgraded their artillery with the B-52 automatic howizer(what have weve done, just write BS on Wiki and reading fony newspapers) Theyve even got some troop communications(well not that many but theyve got it before us.) They distributed their balistic vests throughout their army, while ours are only in afghanistan and special forces.
All that we have done is just write newspapers and BS on wiki on what are we going to buy or make for our armed forces instead of actually doing something for our forces. While our neighboors have been doing just the opposite of what were doing( Which is actually building the armed forces)
I would show u guys examples and of what am i talking about but im not allowed to post ULRS till like 15 posts.
thnx, did not mean to mood the tone in this thread was not my intention.
It's bad, but not that bas as you made it to seem.
IMHO, M-84D or M-95, it's almost the same thing. All of the M-84s will be upgraded to D standard, and if somebody wants to buy the Degman, 2 prototypes exist and they're ready for a production series.
The VHS rifle is undergoing testing in Afganistan.
IMHO, M-84D or M-95, it's almost the same thing. All of the M-84s will be upgraded to D standard, and if somebody wants to buy the Degman, 2 prototypes exist and they're ready for a production series.
The VHS rifle is undergoing testing in Afganistan.
The navy will soon enter the biggest shipbuilding program ever. The Mi-171Sh is a workhorse, not a fancy ride. It does what it was designed to do, it carries troops and equipment for a very affordable price and it does it very well.
what about the troop gear? will they introduce the new balsitc vests?, communications ect?
And is there any actual plans for artillery upgrades or pecurment, but not from like nacional, or slobodnadalmacija, wiki or nything bout that, but from an actual real source such as the defence budget papers ect..
N for the VHS how come then they did not show it on the MOD site on pictures or info of it being tested in afghanistan?
And is there any actual plans for artillery upgrades or pecurment, but not from like nacional, or slobodnadalmacija, wiki or nything bout that, but from an actual real source such as the defence budget papers ect..
N for the VHS how come then they did not show it on the MOD site on pictures or info of it being tested in afghanistan?
The army is in the process of upgradeing it's communications equipment, they're gettin new UAVs and so on...
There are official plans for upgrading artilery, if you look at the defence white paper 2006-2015 you'll see there's a plan to aquire new self propelled 155 mm howitzers.
There are official plans for upgrading artilery, if you look at the defence white paper 2006-2015 you'll see there's a plan to aquire new self propelled 155 mm howitzers.
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
One question, I am kind of a paratroop enthusiasts....
Does Croatia has some special paratroop battalion, brigade or unit?
Something like our 63 paratroop battalion ?
Does Croatia has some special paratroop battalion, brigade or unit?
Something like our 63 paratroop battalion ?