Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?

[kato]

I'd suspect that in the Saudi-Arabian environment, a lot of units would have higher equipment than manpower attrition rates. Gather the unit back together, give them equipment from stocks.

And of course a lot of equipment seems to have been more "pet projects" or "political bargaining chips".

---

Can I still comment on Poland, since no one really answered eckherl's question (what has Poland done)?

It's actually quite simple. Poland, in the past few years, has consistently vetoed EU decisions simply to obtain bargaining markers especially in EU financial matters. I.e. veto until they get money. Or until certain other nations don't get money. Politically, under the Kaczinsky twins, the Polish government turned consequentially nationalistic-conservative, with a strong anti-German bias.
Spain acted a similar way for a while btw.

 

[Chrom]

is going to solve some of the problems.

Back to topic.
I have often read about a lot of the Saudi Arabian ground equipment is in storage.
As they have no conscript system, how do they expect to man it in case of a crisis or is it mainly supposed to be replacement for battlefield damage/attrition?
Blow out panels made it even more likely that a tank is ready after some repair but the crew is lost.
I expect that in a conflict Saudi Arabia is short on trained crews and not equipment.

1. Even without conscript system, many veterans retire in good physical conditions. They could be brought back to service if needed.

2. Blow out panels - it is not that simple. Usually they help in case of propelant detonation, sometimes also in case of HEAT ammo detonation. But usually fire caused by such penetration ensure complete burnount of the tank, to the point where it is cheaper to buy new tank.

3. Right now it didnt looks like quality of SA army will matter in any future conflict. It is either big overkill or much too weak depending on enemy.

 

[Waylander]

I never said that blow out panels cause in every tank being back in service very fast.
I just said that protected ammo increases the possibility of the tank being repairable.
And since when does an ammo explosion causes a complete burnout of the tank?

Does SA has a working reserve concept?
Without it it will be a hard task to get the retired people back into service. maybe with a long warning time but does one really expects this long warning time in this part of the world.

----------------------

As for Poland. The F-16 deal also didn't look very well. They got plenty of money as well as refurbished Leo IIA4 and NATO compatible MiG-29 for nearly 0€. And then they buy US-jets...

 

[eckherl]

Waylander is correct Chrom in regards to the blow out panels, this is one of the design features along with the safety aspect for the crew.

 

[Chrom]

Waylander is correct Chrom in regards to the blow out panels, this is one of the design features along with the safety aspect for the crew.

Of course. But that EXACTLY mean what crew will die LESS, and not MORE. As such, there will be less crew shortage. While it also decrease the chances of complete tank burnout, i still feel crew will suffer even less casualities.

 

[Waylander]

My thought is that one will loose less tanks to fatal ammo explosion and while one will also loose less crews due to protection from fatal ammo explosions I expect more tanks to be ready after some repairs than ready trained crews.

 

[eckherl]

My thought is that one will loose less tanks to fatal ammo explosion and while one will also loose less crews due to protection from fatal ammo explosions I expect more tanks to be ready after some repairs than ready trained crews.

Which is the case in Iraq, vehicles can be returned to maintenance and fixed. Our approach to the issue of tank crew attrition in the event of a large scale conflict would be to train infantry or anybody else for that matter to become a loader due to less training needed to perform this task.

 

[caspianfish]

The French AMX-56 Leclerc MBT has never been in Turkey.Also Turkish army never decided to buy an MBT from France.For many years we buy MBT from Germany.There are also some US tanks.

T-95 MBT..not in service yet right? any pics during in service?

 

[eckherl]

The French AMX-56 Leclerc MBT has never been in Turkey.Also Turkish army never decided to buy an MBT from France.For many years we buy MBT from Germany.There are also some US tanks.

T-95 MBT..not in service yet right? any pics during in service?

How do you know if France has never sent a Leclerc to Turkey. Isn`t there some ex IDF armor also that is used by Turkey.:unknown

 

[Waylander]

Turkey is in the process of upgrading parts of it's M60 fleet to Sabra standard (Mk.II IIRC). They produce parts of the upgrade package in Turkey.

 

[kato]

The Leclerc took part in the 2000 trials for a new Turkish MBT. In Turkey. I.e. there was a Leclerc in Turkey.

Giat also offered Turkey a "package" for a indigenous tank design based on the Leclerc in 2005. Afaik, it was this package that was "under consideration" versus a XK2 procurement (in March).

 

[eckherl]

@Waylander and Kato

I Knew the answer when I asked it, and I know both of you know it also, I was waiting to hear his response.

 

[Waylander]

Damn, the not so funny Germans destroyed the joke... :nutkick

 

[eckherl]

Well I figured that he gave us a pretty good story inregards to the Merkava 3 being exported that his response to this would of at least given us a big WOW!

 

[caspianfish]

Have you ever seen a French MBT used by Turkish soldiers?Thats what I ment when I said The French MBT was never been in Turkey.Like other countries France alsa wants to sell MBT to Turkey but never had a chance.Taking part in 2000 trials dont mean that the TAF will buy and use it.There was also Russian tanks in Ankara but did you see any T class Russian tanks used by Turkish soldiers?

 

[eckherl]

Have you ever seen a French MBT used by Turkish soldiers?Thats what I ment when I said The French MBT was never been in Turkey.Like other countries France alsa wants to sell MBT to Turkey but never had a chance.Taking part in 2000 trials dont mean that the TAF will buy and use it.There was also Russian tanks in Ankara but did you see any T class Russian tanks used by Turkish soldiers?

Yes - we do agree with you that Leclercs are not issued for service, but they were evaluated inside of Turkey.

 

[Izzy1]

Have you ever seen a French MBT used by Turkish soldiers?Thats what I ment when I said The French MBT was never been in Turkey.Like other countries France alsa wants to sell MBT to Turkey but never had a chance.Taking part in 2000 trials dont mean that the TAF will buy and use it.There was also Russian tanks in Ankara but did you see any T class Russian tanks used by Turkish soldiers?

What has that got to do with the question?

 

[DefConGuru]

Saudi's should acquire some MBT AK's from PA for field testing before making a go on the Leclerq

 

[SaudiArabian]

Saudi's should acquire some MBT AK's from PA for field testing before making a go on the Leclerq

field tests of that kind were done time ago

 

[Izzy1]

Have you ever seen a French MBT used by Turkish soldiers?Thats what I ment when I said The French MBT was never been in Turkey.Like other countries France alsa wants to sell MBT to Turkey but never had a chance.Taking part in 2000 trials dont mean that the TAF will buy and use it.There was also Russian tanks in Ankara but did you see any T class Russian tanks used by Turkish soldiers?

LeClerc is a joke.