Chilean Army Buys 100 Leopard 2 MBT

[Waylander]

If you are willing to pay the price the used PzH2000 are IMHO a very good offer and if combined with COBRA fire finder radar in an ADLER network it pushes Chile years ahaid of everything else in the region.

BTW, the Marders are also not able to follow the Leos but they are still better than M113s and its derivates.

One shouldn't be worried about Spike used on Marder.

The MILAN on Marder is only attached to a mount on the commanders hatch and has no link to the Marder's fire control system.

 

[harryriedl]

If one keeps the Marders running (They are whored down a little bit... ) they are for sure a good supplement to the armored formations.
The "keep them running" is actually something one should worry about. They will need some rebuilding if you want to have fun with them.

What kind of ATGM does Chile has in service?

IMHO it shouldn't be hard to adopt any ATGM one wants onto the mount of the MILAN on the Marder.

I would also expect the Netherlands to be a possible source of Gepards.
They are throwing away their stuff even faster than we do and also much newer toys.
Are the dutch Gepards upgraded?

What kind of SPH does Chile operates?
There are plenty of M109s available in Europe for sale.
And some of them have been modernised just recently and also feature things like a longer barrel. For example Switzerland wants to get rid of some of theirs as well as we do.
The Netherlands are even offering nearly new PzH2000 but this would be a bit overkill and I expect it to be too expensive.

It is still heavy metal shopping time in Europe and if one wants some fairly modern western stuff for not that much money its the time to buy it.

tanks and APC and armore seems to be selling out but it seems ships and planes seem not be on the market. sertaninly seems the great peace dividend seems to be drying up on the more expensive items.

its truly amazing quite how much the netherlands is cutting back despite being at the pointy end of Afaganistan

 

[Waylander]

But all the nice and shiny equipment to fight the red hordes advancing to the rhine is not going to help in A-stan.

They still have enough heavy equipment to send it to A-stan or somewhere else where it is needed in small to medium quantities.

Just a pitty that they axed their MLRS.

 

[kato]

sertaninly seems the great peace dividend seems to be drying up on the more expensive items.

Well... depends. Not really, actually.

Quite a considerable amount of ships (and submarines) are transferred around inside Europe, mostly to ex-WP nations such as Romania or Poland at the moment. Higher-class stuff, in particular from the Netherlands, goes to closer-allied nations such as Belgium or Portugal (i'm talking about those four M-Class frigates). South America definitely shops a lot in used ships there too, with the Portuguese frigates (which are themselves replaced by used Dutch M-Class) for Uruguay, or the Dutch M- and L-class frigates for Chile.
It's not like the Dutch Navy has much left to sell at all - pretty much the only sellable items (older than 10 years) left are the Walrus class subs and the Zuiderkruis replenishment ship which has pretty much been bumped down to guard ship for the Antilles. Consider that in recent times, they've sold off eight frigates, leaving them with six (four new LCF plus two M-class). And those six frigates together with the four subs represent about the entire Dutch Navy - i.e. effectively, they've been selling off half their navy in recent times.


Aircraft - slightly different story. Quite a lot of Euro airforces only have airframes left with pretty high flight hour scores. Netherlands has sold some F-16AM to Chile and Jordan. Thailand and Portugal eg use ex-German Alpha Jets, though those were bought in the mid to late 90s. Albania uses updated ex-German Bo-105E-4 helos, with the same update/conversion envisioned for future used Bo-105 sales (Germany will throw another 150 or so on the market in the next 5 years).

 

[harryriedl]

Well... depends. Not really, actually.

Quite a considerable amount of ships (and submarines) are transferred around inside Europe, mostly to ex-WP nations such as Romania or Poland at the moment. Higher-class stuff, in particular from the Netherlands, goes to closer-allied nations such as Belgium or Portugal (i'm talking about those four M-Class frigates). South America definitely shops a lot in used ships there too, with the Portuguese frigates (which are themselves replaced by used Dutch M-Class) for Uruguay, or the Dutch M- and L-class frigates for Chile.
It's not like the Dutch Navy has much left to sell at all - pretty much the only sellable items (older than 10 years) left are the Walrus class subs and the Zuiderkruis replenishment ship which has pretty much been bumped down to guard ship for the Antilles. Consider that in recent times, they've sold off eight frigates, leaving them with six (four new LCF plus two M-class). And those six frigates together with the four subs represent about the entire Dutch Navy - i.e. effectively, they've been selling off half their navy in recent times.


Aircraft - slightly different story. Quite a lot of Euro airforces only have airframes left with pretty high flight hour scores. Netherlands has sold some F-16AM to Chile and Jordan. Thailand and Portugal eg use ex-German Alpha Jets, though those were bought in the mid to late 90s. Albania uses updated ex-German Bo-105E-4 helos, with the same update/conversion envisioned for future used Bo-105 sales (Germany will throw another 150 or so on the market in the next 5 years).

true but the gist im getting at is that 90% of the deal happened in the 90s while few of them have happed outside the EU and even less of them have happened at the turn of the millennium. its not like the huge amount of stuff which came avalible at the end of the cold war

 

[kato]

true but the gist im getting at is that 90% of the deal happened in the 90s while few of them have happed outside the EU and even less of them have happened at the turn of the millennium. its not like the huge amount of stuff which came avalible at the end of the cold war

The last F-16 deal between Chile and Netherlands (18 aircraft?) happened in 2005, aircraft are currently being storaged/readied for delivery. The ship sales to Chile and Uruguay are pretty recent too (2004-2006 period?).

Most of the Cold War stuff went to non-descript Asian and African nations really, from all sides.

 

[harryriedl]

The last F-16 deal between Chile and Netherlands (18 aircraft?) happened in 2005, aircraft are currently being storaged/readied for delivery. The ship sales to Chile and Uruguay are pretty recent too (2004-2006 period?).

Most of the Cold War stuff went to non-descript Asian and African nations really, from all sides.

yes like the lenenders to India and T21 to pakistan.

 

[kato]

yes like the lenenders to India and T21 to pakistan.

Or almost the entire East-German fleet getting pawned off to Indonesia...

 

[Feña]

All F16 MLU are already here ... just see the following pictures ...

F16 w/Flag

Chilean F16

First Delivery of Dutch F16 to Cerro Moreno AFB

The other picture is from the WILLKA exercise with F16 from the Texas Air National Guard, in the thumbnail a chilean F16 B50

 

[RubiconNZ]

Nice Pics!

May I ask what the the black/blue cylindrical object is on the bottom of the intake I don't recognise it, some sort of a targeting pod?

 

[Feña]

It´s a PANTERA Targeting Pod wich is the export version of the Sniper XR targeting pod. PANTERA sets the world standard for long-range target detection to help aircrews perform their missions at safe distances against heavily defended targets.

PANTERA has a high-resolution mid-wave third generation forward looking infrared (FLIR), infrared pointer, dual-mode laser, day television, laser spot tracker and advanced algorithms in a lightweight, aerodynamic pod. PANTERA’s long range FLIR and TV imagery allows pilots to avoid enemy air defenses and preserve national assets. Its unique common aperture and rock-steady stabilization permits sub-sonic and supersonic performance not possible with other pods. The pod is designed for one-half the life cycle cost and much easier maintenance than all other targeting pods.

 

[bole]

I'm newcomer. Could you show me why US as well as Westen tank always have 4 men crew (1 gunner) instead 3 men crew of Russian tank. With its own technical advances, why American didn't have auto loader to replace gunner. thnx

 

[Aussie Digger]

It´s a PANTERA Targeting Pod wich is the export version of the Sniper XR targeting pod. PANTERA sets the world standard for long-range target detection to help aircrews perform their missions at safe distances against heavily defended targets.

Are you certain?

It looks more like one of the Litening targetting pod variants to me, probably the AT variant.

There is a pic of a Pantera Targetting pod here:

http://www.missilesandfirecontrol.com/our_news/factsheets/factsheet-PANTERA.pdf

Compare that to the Litening AT as seen here:

http://www.dsd.es.northropgrumman.com/DSD-Brochures/litening/LITENING_AT.pdf

As can be seen, they are quite visually different...

 

[Feña]

Point taken, but the in the purchase deal for the chilean F16 Block 50, the targeting pod reported by our MoD is the Pantera ... that´s why I thought the one in the picture is that one ... maybe the F16 MLU came with the Lightening but it´s something I dont know .... and even if that is the case both squadrons operate from different cityes so is kind of difficult to exchange hardware ... any opinions?

 

[swerve]

I'm newcomer. Could you show me why US as well as Westen tank always have 4 men crew (1 gunner) instead 3 men crew of Russian tank. With its own technical advances, why American didn't have auto loader to replace gunner. thnx

Bole, this isn't really the right place for this question. A bit off topic. Perhaps you'd like to initiate a discussion about it, in a new thread? It would be nice if you contributed your own opinions on the matter, to help kick it off.

It may well have been discussed before, but if so, it's buried deep among the old threads, & it's a topic I'm sure divides the forum membership.

One point to remember - one Western MBT has a 3 man crew & autoloader - Leclerc - or more, if you count Japan as Western (as my partner does ), or Korea.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

PJI

 

[Waylander]

IIRC there is a thread about the possibility of reducing the crew of a tank down to two.
There we also covered the 3 and 4 man concepts.
I hope you find it with the search function.

 

[Tex Selenius]

Deadly Marders

Dear Fena,
I read in another forum that Chile still has in store some M-50 and some M-24 tanks that were equiped with the deadly israeli 60mm Hyper velocity guns.
Question : could these guns be mounted on the Marder ICV that Chile has recently purchased ? ...