Simply that they do not want to be outclassed by some of her neighbors. Also the cooperation between Chile and the U.S seems to be quite strong.
Last edited:
Chilean Army Buys 100 Leopard 2 MBT
- Thread starter Feña
- Start date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #82
And the armour is not something from another world, in fact there are reports that the thickness in the Ariete is kind of thin, this partially compensated by the good ballistic shape of the vehicle ....
Besides, why adopt a vehicle operated by just one country, when the Leopard Club offers the development of joint programs of research and improvement, etc, etc ...
And there are that little thing ... the cost, the L2 A4 CH as a reported cost of US$800.000 the piece ¿how much cost a brand new Ariete?
And finally, the "tank country" in Chile are in the far parts of the country (northern Atacama desert facing Perú and Bolivia and Patagonia facing the argentinian pampa) this places are flat and largelly unpopulated ... so why buy a MBT for urban or mountain enviroments?
Many questions ..
Besides, why adopt a vehicle operated by just one country, when the Leopard Club offers the development of joint programs of research and improvement, etc, etc ...
And there are that little thing ... the cost, the L2 A4 CH as a reported cost of US$800.000 the piece ¿how much cost a brand new Ariete?
And finally, the "tank country" in Chile are in the far parts of the country (northern Atacama desert facing Perú and Bolivia and Patagonia facing the argentinian pampa) this places are flat and largelly unpopulated ... so why buy a MBT for urban or mountain enviroments?
Many questions ..
LOL, thats what i just said....
No, you made the statement that it is specially designed for mountain terrian and I am making the statement that there is nothing special about it.
What is so different what makes an Ariete better suited for mountain and urban environment? Yourself stated that the suspension is nothing special...
What makes an Ariete more similar to a Merkava than an Abrams, Challi or Leo?
You have an idea what kind of 120mm the Abrams uses? Just a hint, Rheinmetall...
The armor of all modern MBTs is not plain normal steel...
Maybe you should start posting some facts. Some more information is alsways better than some unsupported vague statements.
You could also address the problems of buying Arietes some members here raised.
This, together with stopping to write in fat letters (looks like you are shouting), would help the discussion.
Back to the original topic:
Germany handed over the first of 140 total Leopard 2A4 to Chile on November 14th in a ceremony in Germany.
The 140 tanks will equip three battalions of the Chilean Army, all operational from 2010 on.
In a follow-on ceremony, German Inspector of the Navy, Lieutenant General Budde, and the Chilean Army Commander, General Izurieta, signed the "joint declaration on Training and Logistics Support for the Chilean Army". This declaration was part of the contract, and will involve German troops being sent to Chile from 2008 on to facilitate and support Chilean training, in particular on their new tanks.
Official Bundeswehr Press Release (in German)
Germany handed over the first of 140 total Leopard 2A4 to Chile on November 14th in a ceremony in Germany.
The 140 tanks will equip three battalions of the Chilean Army, all operational from 2010 on.
In a follow-on ceremony, German Inspector of the Navy, Lieutenant General Budde, and the Chilean Army Commander, General Izurieta, signed the "joint declaration on Training and Logistics Support for the Chilean Army". This declaration was part of the contract, and will involve German troops being sent to Chile from 2008 on to facilitate and support Chilean training, in particular on their new tanks.
Official Bundeswehr Press Release (in German)
Mmm, i have no idea how the Navy slipped in there actually :unknown
And yeah, he's of course Army. Will be for another two years, if things go according to his wishes - the MoD wants him to retire (he has a... not very MoD-accomodating opinion regarding power distribution away from the services), while he wants to pull through until mandatory retirement at 62; same thing for the Luftwaffe Inspector btw, who's also turning 60.
And yeah, he's of course Army. Will be for another two years, if things go according to his wishes - the MoD wants him to retire (he has a... not very MoD-accomodating opinion regarding power distribution away from the services), while he wants to pull through until mandatory retirement at 62; same thing for the Luftwaffe Inspector btw, who's also turning 60.
Jup, highest soldier in the Heer (Army).
In German it is called Inspekteur des Heeres.
The highest soldier is than the Generalinspekteur (General Inspector).
This would be for example the Chief of Staff in the US.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #92
Kato and Waylander, since you both seems to be germans I want to ask if there are any news about a possible sale of Marders and Gepards to Chile, over here one of the main news papers make a note confirming the operation ... the numbers will be a first batch of 100 Marders 1A3 and 30 Gepards ... knowing that the army is in extreme "shy" with its programs this is almost an unofficial confirmation more if you consider that the journalist who sign the note is not a defense especialist but a political one ... so he probably cannot differenciate a truck from a tank and is unlikely that can came up with this on his own 
The Marders make sence to me since it can support the L2 (and there seems to be a huge stock to give away) and the Gepards ... hmmmm well is better have and dont need it than need it and dont have it ... and can provide close support for the mechanized force and engage low flying helos and planes (the peruvians had the ZSU 23-4 and they love it).
Any thoughts about the next steps that the chileans need to make?
The Marders make sence to me since it can support the L2 (and there seems to be a huge stock to give away) and the Gepards ... hmmmm well is better have and dont need it than need it and dont have it ... and can provide close support for the mechanized force and engage low flying helos and planes (the peruvians had the ZSU 23-4 and they love it).
Any thoughts about the next steps that the chileans need to make?
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Sort of, yeah.
Composition of the highest echelon in Germany is:
#1: Defense Minister (Jung, civilian): CiC of Bw in peacetime (wartime: transfer to Chancellor)
#2: General Inspector of the Bundeswehr (Gen Schneiderhan): military advisor to def minister and gov, military joint CiC of Bundeswehr
#3: Inspectors of the...: overall command of their respective forces
...Army (Lt Gen Budde)
...Airforce (Lt Gen Stieglitz)
...Navy (Vice Adm Nolting)
...Joint Support Forces (Vice Adm Kühn; also Deputy Gen Insp)
...Medical Service (Gen Staff Dr Nakath)
I don't think we have any Gepards left to give to Chile really... the ~90 left in the Army is all that remains really, and all those are planned to remain in place for about the next 5-10 years.
Maybe from another source? Netherlands probably, i'd guess.
Marders - haven't heard anything. You'd get them for free though probably, there's like 1500 of them laying around here rusting
If one keeps the Marders running (They are whored down a little bit... ) they are for sure a good supplement to the armored formations.
The "keep them running" is actually something one should worry about. They will need some rebuilding if you want to have fun with them.
What kind of ATGM does Chile has in service?
IMHO it shouldn't be hard to adopt any ATGM one wants onto the mount of the MILAN on the Marder.
I would also expect the Netherlands to be a possible source of Gepards.
They are throwing away their stuff even faster than we do and also much newer toys.
Are the dutch Gepards upgraded?
What kind of SPH does Chile operates?
There are plenty of M109s available in Europe for sale.
And some of them have been modernised just recently and also feature things like a longer barrel. For example Switzerland wants to get rid of some of theirs as well as we do.
The Netherlands are even offering nearly new PzH2000 but this would be a bit overkill and I expect it to be too expensive.
It is still heavy metal shopping time in Europe and if one wants some fairly modern western stuff for not that much money its the time to buy it.
) they are for sure a good supplement to the armored formations.The "keep them running" is actually something one should worry about. They will need some rebuilding if you want to have fun with them.
What kind of ATGM does Chile has in service?
IMHO it shouldn't be hard to adopt any ATGM one wants onto the mount of the MILAN on the Marder.
I would also expect the Netherlands to be a possible source of Gepards.
They are throwing away their stuff even faster than we do and also much newer toys.
Are the dutch Gepards upgraded?
What kind of SPH does Chile operates?
There are plenty of M109s available in Europe for sale.
And some of them have been modernised just recently and also feature things like a longer barrel. For example Switzerland wants to get rid of some of theirs as well as we do.
The Netherlands are even offering nearly new PzH2000 but this would be a bit overkill and I expect it to be too expensive.
It is still heavy metal shopping time in Europe and if one wants some fairly modern western stuff for not that much money its the time to buy it.
Depends on the professional army & the conscript army. Israeli conscripts proved themselves able to fight Jordanian professional soldiers in 1967 & 1973. Some African professional armies have failed to distinguish themselves against conscript opponents. It isn't an absolute rule.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #99
Well, the ATGM here is the Spike family, and the adaptation of this munition to the Marder was one of my concerns ... about the SPH we had some ex swiss M109 RUAG (longer barrels, the works ) ..
The netherland already have sold us four frigates, 18 F16 and the 200+ Leopard 1 so it could be a source for the new equipment (Gepards etc) ... but AFAIK the informed source will be Germany, triangular operation? maybe for maintainance & upgrade? ...
It´s curious that you mentioned the Pzh 2000 since that is the other thing that has been reported as been looked by the Chilean Army, and since the netherland deal with the aussies come to nothing, some of this great machines may be available for sale ...
About the Marders, I think that the profit for germany will be the overhaul and upgrade since we are buying only A class vehicles ... and our actual vehicles (M113 A2 and YPR 765) cannot follow the L2 the way we want ...
The last but not the least point is that TODAY the chilean armed forces has in the fourth account (the money for new equipment ) anywhere between 2000 and 2500 US millions ... and by law, that amount can only be expend in new equipment, but the problem is that the funds for operation is another issue and for that reason we cannot go and buy all at once because we will end with a ton of stored cans
) ..The netherland already have sold us four frigates, 18 F16 and the 200+ Leopard 1 so it could be a source for the new equipment (Gepards etc) ... but AFAIK the informed source will be Germany, triangular operation? maybe for maintainance & upgrade? ...
It´s curious that you mentioned the Pzh 2000 since that is the other thing that has been reported as been looked by the Chilean Army, and since the netherland deal with the aussies come to nothing, some of this great machines may be available for sale ...
About the Marders, I think that the profit for germany will be the overhaul and upgrade since we are buying only A class vehicles ... and our actual vehicles (M113 A2 and YPR 765) cannot follow the L2 the way we want ...
The last but not the least point is that TODAY the chilean armed forces has in the fourth account (the money for new equipment
) anywhere between 2000 and 2500 US millions ... and by law, that amount can only be expend in new equipment, but the problem is that the funds for operation is another issue and for that reason we cannot go and buy all at once because we will end with a ton of stored cans Presumably, as "in" lately, Dutch vehicles refurbished by German companies then. I.e. KMWeg/Rheinmetall would buy back the Gepards from the Netherlands, refurbish them, then export them. Germany would need to approve the sale (since outside NATO) anyway.
Well, you might get some goodies out of it. AHEAD-enabled guns, or a new FCS, for example.