Rafale loses out again?

E

European

New Member
French newspaper LaTribune reports that Japan is interested to buy EFA Typhoon and not interested in Rafale:

http://www.latribune.fr/info/Le-Japon-pourrait-acheter-des-chasseurs-Typhoon-d-Eurofighter-496-~-EUROFIGHTER-JAPON-20071017TXT-$Db=News/News.nsf-$Channel=Bourse

Sorry, the source is in french.
Another bad news for Rafale
:(
 
R

Ryttare

New Member
Izzy1 said:
It certainly is good news for SAAB and their Gripen International partner... BAE Systems.
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No, BAE is no longer a part owner of Gripen International. BAE still has a minority post in Saab, but seems on it's way to end that too.

Regarding this Thai Gripen deal there are some dubious claims in the media, but it seems to be a genuine interest in Thailand to buy Gripen.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
European said:
French newspaper LaTribune reports that Japan is interested to buy EFA Typhoon and not interested in Rafale:

http://www.latribune.fr/info/Le-Japon-pourrait-acheter-des-chasseurs-Typhoon-d-Eurofighter-496-~-EUROFIGHTER-JAPON-20071017TXT-=News/News.nsf-=Bourse

Sorry, the source is in french.
Another bad news for Rafale
:(
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the Raf was excluded from Japan ages ago
 
S

Scorpion82

New Member
AFAIK Dassault decided not to bid for the Japanese competition as the japanese weren't able to guarantee a fair bidding process. Lessons learned from the south korean FX competition.
 
A

Alpha Epsilon

New Member
No, BAE is no longer a part owner of Gripen International. BAE still has a minority post in Saab, but seems on it's way to end that too.
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Well iirc BAE Systems still owns 50% of Gripen International, what they do not do anymore is lead the marketing.
 
R

Ryttare

New Member
2

2000

New Member
Izzy1 said:
Yes, the Royal Saudi Air Force did fund it - please don't insult my intelligence or eyesight by stating otherwise. RSAF through MODA funded the M4000 just like the rest of the late 1970's kit France developed for Saudi with its funding (AMX-40, Shahine, DCA-30, F-2000).
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A lot of sources state that the M4000 was privately funded by Dassault. The only source that mention Saudi money is wikipedia and they use the word 'possibly'.

If anybody is interested in learning more about the Mirage 4000, here is a good link (page 21):
http://www.safran-group.com/IMG/pdf/1SNEMAG006_ENG_baf.pdf

riksavage said:
I ment bad news for Rafale, not Thailand.
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And I meant good news for Thailande and Gripen and not a bad news for Rafale :vamp
Dassault was not expecting to make a sale there. Same thing for Japan, not a bad news because Dassault was not hunting on the japanese market.
Morocco is a bad news, Thailand, Japan are not.
 
R

riksavage

Banned Member
Saab also palns to discuss Gripen Production in India. Saab is apparently prepared to compromise on the production location if the company secures the order for 126 JAS Gripen fighters.

Though the Gripen is easy to service, it does suffer from a lack of range!

Other aircraft in the offing include the venerable F-16 and F/A-18 planes, the Dassault French Rafale, the Russian Mikoyan MiG-35 and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Theres still hope or the Rafale scoring an overseas order!
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
luccloud said:
With the new French President being so Pro US, will it affect the future of Rafale? Any chance it will be scraped?
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Scrap Rafale? I'd like to know what you're taking, because it must be good. ;)

Having spent billions on developing it, what possible reason could there be for scrapping Rafale? That would leave the French having to buy fighters from abroad, at massive cost to the balance of payments, & becoming dependent on outside suppliers (Rafale has the immense benefit of being entirely French).

No, no chance whatsoever. If Sarkozy tried it (which he won't - he's a patriotic Frenchman) they'd find a way to throw him out of office.
 
L

luccloud

New Member
swerve said:
Scrap Rafale? I'd like to know what you're taking, because it must be good. ;)

Having spent billions on developing it, what possible reason could there be for scrapping Rafale? That would leave the French having to buy fighters from abroad, at massive cost to the balance of payments, & becoming dependent on outside suppliers (Rafale has the immense benefit of being entirely French).

No, no chance whatsoever. If Sarkozy tried it (which he won't - he's a patriotic Frenchman) they'd find a way to throw him out of office.
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You have no idea how many great invention have been killed by politics. The cancellation of the Arvo Arrow still pain me some times. I was just pondering will Rafale suffer the same terrible fate.
 
B

barra

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
No, no chance whatsoever. If Sarkozy tried it (which he won't - he's a patriotic Frenchman) they'd find a way to throw him out of office.
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Probably use the guillotine on him, apparently the French have done this before to there leaders. :eek:nfloorl:

But seriously, they are in a no win situation now, whichever way they go will cost them money. Scrapping them all together would mean huge loss of face, even the French couldn't put a positive spin on that one.

Hooroo
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
luccloud said:
You have no idea how many great invention have been killed by politics. The cancellation of the Arvo Arrow still pain me some times. I was just pondering will Rafale suffer the same terrible fate.
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The Avro Arrow, TSR.2 etc were all scrapped at the prototype stage, before entering service or the start of full-scale production. Cancelling something which is in production & service, & is a technical (if not economic) success would be unprecedented. I'm baffled that anyone would even think the idea worth discussing.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The platform is in squadron service. There is no way in hell that they would scrap the platform altogether because they cant get export orders. There are several other factors rather than profitability. The french could have bought F15E and F18 off the shelf instead of rafale, it would have saved them millions and offered them excellent capability. However all the benifits of a fully indipendnt french military airospace industry would have been sacrificed. All the knowlage and expertise would have walked out the door and into the eurofighter programe. They would aslo be reliant on the good graces of the US for their weapons and platforms. Not good if you want a truely, and compleatly, indipendant foregin policy, which is kind of a sticking point for alot of those proud frenchmen. Basically, not gonna happen. Rafale was not primarily a product for export, the primary customer is, and was always going to be the french military. Export orders are a bonus, period.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #179
contedicavour said:
I'd love this to be true, though I fear it's a clever way to let the Americans know that if they don't supply the F22 the Japanese will buy non-American for once (and for the very first time).
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It doesn't matter even if that was the case. The chances of the Americans changing their minds fast enough are remote at best. Maybe if they'd agreed to sell it in principle this year it could have worked - too late now, as they'd need to get the congressional restrictions removed (which would probably not happen nearly soon enough for Japan's needs).

In my mind this was a snub. The US believed Japan would buy the Strike Eagle so it didn't feel the need to make the Raptor available. Tokyo knows it can't get the F-22 at the moment, so it's saying that it thinks Typhoon is the next best thing and is telling the US it will go for it in lieu of the Raptor. This is what I've understood by talking to defence correspondents. Japanese officials have visted RAF bases to see the Typhoon fly and overall are very impressed with it.

If Eurofighter wins the order it will probably be due to the UK's efforts again. When are the other partner states going to do their share of the work in getting customers? :D

I still see the F35 as the likeliest choice, though I'd love to see Japanese Typhoons!
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The F-35 is not an option - everyone knows that! Japan is replacing its F-4s, not the F-15s, and the necessary replacement timescale makes the F-35 a non-runner.
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Hey, we sold the EF to Austria... :eek:nfloorl:

Seriously, could somebody provide me with the different regions the EF-partners are responsible for?
 
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