F-15 Eagle
New Member
I heard that Russia is the worlds largest arems exporter in the world that makes up around 30% of the arms trade.:coffee
New major military powers
- Thread starter mexsoldier
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can u provide some link please ??
otherwise it becomes difficult to verify, specially for somebody like me.
i knew that russia was doing pretty well for itself, but 30% ??? thats news to me.
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This Congressional Report has somewhat more exact numbers, but they're a bit hard to find in this document.
2005 numbers are significantly different from earlier years; in particular, Russia finally surpassed the USA in the developing nations market (they used to be number 2), and France vastly increased their sales (due to sale of Scorpenes to India).
Page 47 and Page 49 in that report states (for supply to developing nations) the following Arms Transfer Agreements signed, for 2005 (!):
Russia - 7 billion (23.19%)
France - 6.3 billion (20.87%)
USA - 6.192 billion (20.52%)
UK - 2.8 billion (9.28%)
China - 2.1 billion (6.96%)
Western Europe "Big Four" (France, UK, Germany, Italy) - 10.3 billion (34.13%)
Other suppliers: 5.6 billion (includes e.g. Germany, Italy, Brazil, Netherlands, Sweden etc), for an overall total signed agreements of 30.182 billion.
"Developing nations" for that report is defined as all nations except Europe, USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand.
The same report also gives far more detailed numbers. It's rather good, actually.
However, the above figures are only to the "developing nations". If above excluded nations are included, use the tables on pages 79 and 81. In those, Russia accounts for 16.76% (#3) of worldwide arms transfer agreements (#1 - USA: 28.89%, #2 - France: 17.89%). Germany and Italy, for example, both also have a higher share in the "developed" market.
Of course. The US had a situation like that when the agreement for F-16 for UAE was signed, pushing them to the very top for the year 2000 (and which doubled their "export" compared to other years, both before and after 2000).
France is currently high because of Scorpene deals, and will fall back to #4 the next year presumably.
However, in the overall situation, as a rough guide for the market since about 1998:
about 30% - Europe "Big Four" (France, UK, Germany, Italy combined)
about 30% - USA
about 15-20% - Russia
about 20-25% - rest-of-world including China, Sweden, South Africa etc
variation is about +-5%, except when really big deals are signed (eg aircraft).
Russia still has enough nuclear weapons to destroy any country several times over. As much as I hate to admit it they are and will be a formidable super power no matter what people say. Look for Japan to become the next major player along with India. Just check Japans Navy in detail and you'll see a striking amount of advanced ships and subs. Hutch
Incognito129
Banned Member
Japan's pop is set to go down to 90 million by 2050. By then Russia will be powerful, but Japan will be half the size of Russia, with both being completely dwarfed by China and India.
Was Hitlers Germany the most populated when they nearly handed us our hat. If they can go from a 100,000 army to 3.8 million in no time then what makes you think Japan who already has a history of militarism can't do it? Besides, I said look at their navy and weapons. They are without doubt better qualitatively then Russia and numerically not far behind either. Hutch
The part about the nukes is true. However Russia will NOT become a superpower again. They're population is shrinking and they have a LOOOONG way to go before they even could become a superpower. They're defense budget is smaller than even China's and that is another reason they will NOT be a superpower. Russia's economy is smaller that Italy's economy. Yet Russia has 140 million people and Italy has only 57 million. And the per capita in Russia is smaller as well.
Russia however will stay a great power. (they already are)
Japan, you have to be joking. As powerful as Japan is now, they're not going to get much more powerful in the future. They're economy will only grow at 2-3%, nothing more than that. Do some more reasearch before considering Japan could be the next "major player" Sure they have many advanced ships but they are not going to grow quickly like China and India.
China and India are the rising superpowers.
I've watched every major development that Japan has made with regard to their military. You telling people to do the research is humurous considering you don't have the facts straight. Anytime a country has enough nuclear weapons to obliterate another country they are a Super Power. If you don't understand that then you might educate yourself on basic military theory. You might even start with the theory of M.A.D. The Japanese navy has well over hundred ultra modern ships in their fleet and can challenge anyone in the area and fair well, except with regard to the use of nuclear weapons which they don't have, or don't say they have. It comes down to this, can a country at war with Russia stand a chance of winning? The answer is in a full blown no holes barred war there is no winner because everyone will be dead so call it what you will but don't delude yourself into thinking that when a country is sitting on enough nuclear weapons to destroy a continent much less any country then you have to face the fact that a war with them is un-win-able. Perhaps the link defining Super Power from websters dictionary might help you which states:
"an extremely powerful nation, esp. one capable of influencing international events and the acts and policies of less powerful nations". If you don't believe the ability to utterly destroy a vast country like the United States let alone smaller ones is an extremely powerful nation then I'm afraid the problem is more then simply not understanding. Hutch
Germany has a population of 80 million as opposed the the U.K.'s 60 million and France's 60 million. So yes, Germany is the most populated.
Japan can become a major offensive military power if they wanted to. But right now they still have their pacifist constitution. And yes, they have amazing weapons. They have the hi-tech AEGIS destroyers.
1. I know about MAD
2. If Russia was a Superpower, how come it couldn't "influence" its former satelite nations to turn away the U.S. missile shield?
3. A superpower has military AND ECONOMIC MIGHT. Russia has a powerful military yet they have an economy that is smaller than Italy's or France's.
4. France has enough nukes to obliterate a country, are they a superpower? NO they are not.
5. Japan doesn't have nukes.
A superpower has economic and military might. Just because a country can obliterate another, doesn't mean it's a superpower. Russia is not an economic power. It can't even influence former satelite nations to turn away a U.S. missile system at their doorstep. HOW WEAK!!!
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I see now, you don't like to read. Websters or any other source won't help this problem. Hutch
None at all. HutchWe should stop this arguement. I'll stop now.
No hard feelings.
Incognito129
Banned Member
Japan's window of opportunity is now and its not getting stronger but weaker.
That is what I was trying to convey. Japan is a very strong country now. Japan will only get weaker, as you said.
Perhaps if you limit the discussion to "Military Power" (which actually is the topic) you & no one else would have problem with classifying countries into powers (military powers) & I firmly believe this will not start any clash between members.
Of course we all know that no African country is a major military power.
I clearly made us understand the sophistication of the African spirit which functions very well in situations far below normal(the chips being down).And our ability to function optimally(or near-optimally) on the field in such circumstances notwithstanding our disadvantages makes us exceptional.
I wasn't canvassing unnecessary and undeserved support for Africa.
Thanks.
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Japan can't be a major global player with Korea's, China and Russia all being so close.
The navy won't travel too far from shore, because of local threats.
Russia is a smart player. Even with the economy crap, they still have influence and still can pull super power tricks and missions. Because they are free to act and everyone knows Russia is so capable in a all out conflict that not even the US, today can stomp on them.
China and India aren't there yet. They aren't free to act out side a few hundred Km from shore. Even then they struggle.
Which is why I see Australia as a rising player. They will have 4 homebuilt Aegis destroyers with full helicopter facilities and a smaller missile load. Two aircraft carriers, 8 potent frigates, 6 very capable submarines. Very simular makeup to Japan. Japan has a large number of older ships that are effectively training vessels.
However Australia is free to act in its region and outside its region. It has no threats. It is building a missile shield for itself to ensure its forces can freely operate in any enviroment. Its radar network is one, if not the best in the world which the US is now tapping into for it shield. Its army is tiny in comparison, to all others, but it never intends to fight a land battle on its home turf. That entire army is there to serve off the continent and it will soon be able to move that entire army and tanks very quickly.
As a small force it aims to be better pound for pound than any other, which means it can deliver a bigger punch for the same logistics requirements.
Which also highlights the problem with other countries becomming regional powers. They might have all the fancy equipment, huge armies, but are incapable of moving and supporting them anywhere.
The navy won't travel too far from shore, because of local threats.
Russia is a smart player. Even with the economy crap, they still have influence and still can pull super power tricks and missions. Because they are free to act and everyone knows Russia is so capable in a all out conflict that not even the US, today can stomp on them.
China and India aren't there yet. They aren't free to act out side a few hundred Km from shore. Even then they struggle.
Which is why I see Australia as a rising player. They will have 4 homebuilt Aegis destroyers with full helicopter facilities and a smaller missile load. Two aircraft carriers, 8 potent frigates, 6 very capable submarines. Very simular makeup to Japan. Japan has a large number of older ships that are effectively training vessels.
However Australia is free to act in its region and outside its region. It has no threats. It is building a missile shield for itself to ensure its forces can freely operate in any enviroment. Its radar network is one, if not the best in the world which the US is now tapping into for it shield. Its army is tiny in comparison, to all others, but it never intends to fight a land battle on its home turf. That entire army is there to serve off the continent and it will soon be able to move that entire army and tanks very quickly.
As a small force it aims to be better pound for pound than any other, which means it can deliver a bigger punch for the same logistics requirements.
Which also highlights the problem with other countries becomming regional powers. They might have all the fancy equipment, huge armies, but are incapable of moving and supporting them anywhere.
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