F/A-22: To Fly High or Get its Wings Clipped

[gf0012-aust]

By way of example, I believe that a Raptor was lost, due to FBW issues in 2005. Because that had occurred in the past, does it mean that the Raptor now has a problem with the FBW system?

welcome to the world of the temporal flux.. I was in Hawai'i in Feb when the F-22's were Kadena bound. Some fell off the perch due to nav problems. I doubt that the problem still exists on the remaining fleet of 120+.

I just wish I'd been closer to get a better view....

 

[10ringr]

welcome to the world of the temporal flux.. I was in Hawai'i in Feb when the F-22's were Kadena bound. Some fell off the perch due to nav problems. I doubt that the problem still exists on the remaining fleet of 120+.

I just wish I'd been closer to get a better view....

I guess that's what happens when you have too many cooks in the kitchen, all trying to make a fighter that's barely cuts it againt Su27/37. Long past are the days when men like Junkers an Willy Messerschmitt made weapons that were on the top of their game but then Germany hasn't made an aircraft like we're talking about in well over half a century. Thank God our couple of generation back fighters still manage to protect the rest of the world while Americans still have aerial supremacy and will have for the foreseable future. Cheers Hutch

 

[Satorian]

I guess that's what happens when you have too many cooks in the kitchen, all trying to make a fighter that's barely cuts it againt Su27/37.

Proof? What's the combat record for that pair squaring off? And where do the design papers state that everybody tried to build a jet of most minor superiority towards the expected threat?

 

[riksavage]

The following report contradicts the Typhoon grounded theory!

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...RoarsIntoNewRoleProtectingTheUkSkiesvideo.htm

 

[10ringr]

The following report contradicts the Typhoon grounded theory!

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...RoarsIntoNewRoleProtectingTheUkSkiesvideo.htm

It happened! Go do the research. Hutch

 

[jaffo4011]

It happened! Go do the research. Hutch

even if it did...so what?

all aircraft have foibles which need sorting out over time.it would be amazing if such hi tech equipment didnt to be honest.the f22 ,f35 typhoon and rafale are all models in development and they will all suffer development issues over time.

 

[Satorian]

It happened! Go do the research. Hutch

"The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists! Go do the research!"




Not exactly the way we usually conduct debate or science, is it? The burden of proof is on somebody claiming somethings veracity or existence. The link you provided earlier showed the situation to be very different from your claim on three major points, which basically turned it into something completely different from what you claimed.

There is nothing wrong with sharing rumours, but it's preferable to mark them clearly as such (and not throw generalized, biased judgments based on them like troll bait into the air.)

 

[gf0012-aust]

Thread closed for the next 48hrs.

 

[Grand Danois]

Thread sanitised and reopened.

Please stay on topic and try not to get emotional.

/GD

 

[Scorpion82]

Just to clear up the confusion about the FCS bug. There was indeed a bug in the Phase 4 FCS of block 2B aircraft. Block 2B aircraft received 4 national type acceptance on 15 december 2005 and the first exaqmples were subsequently delivered to the RAF and EdA the same month. When the bug was discovered deliveries were on hold and all block 2B aircraft were grounded. The problem was eventually fixed in june 2006 through a software update and deliveries started to go on. If I remember right the problem was an unexpected roll performance/behaviour ar some AoA. This is since then a thing of the past and nothing recent.

 

[10ringr]

Proof? What's the combat record for that pair squaring off? And where do the design papers state that everybody tried to build a jet of most minor superiority towards the expected threat?

You have only to look around and ask yourself if they will keep the same level of air superiority the F15 has had. If you're honest with yourself you realize not even close. Hutch

 

[Satorian]

You have only to look around and ask yourself if they will keep the same level of air superiority the F15 has had. If you're honest with yourself you realize not even close. Hutch

That wasn't the point and isn't a benchmark of interest. The point was your claim that the Typhoon marginally outperforms ("barely cuts it against") the Su-27.
Show me the data and the combat records.



(hxxp://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110590&postcount=211 was your claim - sorry, can't post URLs and URL tags yet)

 

[Satorian]

Just to clear up the confusion about the FCS bug. There was indeed a bug in the Phase 4 FCS of block 2B aircraft. Block 2B aircraft received 4 national type acceptance on 15 december 2005 and the first exaqmples were subsequently delivered to the RAF and EdA the same month. When the bug was discovered deliveries were on hold and all block 2B aircraft were grounded. The problem was eventually fixed in june 2006 through a software update and deliveries started to go on. If I remember right the problem was an unexpected roll performance/behaviour ar some AoA. This is since then a thing of the past and nothing recent.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[10ringr]

That wasn't the point and isn't a benchmark of interest. The point was your claim that the Typhoon marginally outperforms ("barely cuts it against") the Su-27.
Show me the data and the combat records.



(hxxp://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110590&postcount=211 was your claim - sorry, can't post URLs and URL tags yet)

That's not even what I said. Perhaps you ought to read what is being said before responding in ways that make you sound, well, argumentative and clearly not following the thread to begin with. Hutch

 

[Satorian]

You said about the Typhoon: "I guess that's what happens when you have too many cooks in the kitchen, all trying to make a fighter that's barely cuts it againt Su27/37."

Asked for data that would validate this claim you suddenly changed the argument to whether the Typhoon would enjoy similar air superiority to the F-15 during its history, which is a completely separate point and unrelated to a direct performance comparison between the Typhoon and the Su-27 family.

Instead of attacking me on a personal level yet another time, as you did right there once again, please provide backup to your claims.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Well during a "simulation" an F-22 was shot down, so this reminds people that yes the Raptor is good but it is not invicible. F-15E was already unchallenged until the Eurofighter and Rafale came but jumping the F-22 is such a huge leap that personally think is uneccessary, causing an aviation arms race. One F-22 can purchase near 2 F-16 Block 50/60.

It will be interesting to see how the US reacts as soon as the first F-22 is shot down. It will hurt them so bad to loose such an expensive fighter aircraft.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Well during a "simulation" an F-22 was shot down, so this reminds people that yes the Raptor is good but it is not invicible. F-15E was already unchallenged until the Eurofighter and Rafale came but jumping the F-22 is such a huge leap that personally think is uneccessary, causing an aviation arms race. One F-22 can purchase near 2 F-16 Block 50/60.

The F15C never went up against a real air threat. It may not have faired so well against soviet Flankers. Then things would have been much more equal. And the F22 was conceved when the russians were working on 5th gen platforms, they have started working on them again allthough they are a very long way from being operational and even when they are will probably not be as capable as US 5th gen platforms. look up PAK FA. F16 block 60's wouldn't fair to well against these threats. And IMO an F22 is worth more than 2 F16 block 60's in A2A combat, so is the F35.

It will be interesting to see how the US reacts as soon as the first F-22 is shot down. It will hurt them so bad to loose such an expensive fighter aircraft.

Are you shure an F22 will ever get shot down????? No F15 has ever been. So i wouldn't be talking about that in absolut's.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

The F15C never went up against a real air threat. It may not have faired so well against soviet Flankers. Then things would have been much more equal. And the F22 was conceved when the russians were working on 5th gen platforms, they have started working on them again allthough they are a very long way from being operational and even when they are will probably not be as capable as US 5th gen platforms. look up PAK FA. F16 block 60's wouldn't fair to well against these threats. And IMO an F22 is worth more than 2 F16 block 60's in A2A combat, so is the F35.



Are you shure an F22 will ever get shot down????? No F15 has ever been. So i wouldn't be talking about that in absolut's.

Reason why no F-15 have been shot down is because, USAF never have properly battled a well armed well trained adversary before. Of course I wouldnt say F-16 Block 60 could defeat F-22 please read people post carefully before posting your own to comment about others.

Never stated anything about a2a combat with F-16 vs F-22, dont know where you got that from my post.

Yes I am sure that eventually an F-22 will get shot down, its good but not that good that it cant be shot down.

USAF hasnt in modern times battled an equally adversary yet that is why USAF have had such a good record. Match an F-15 with an Su-30 with a well trained pilot and you will have your first F-15 possibly downed.

Nothing is invicible you better remember that, as US once removed the guns off fighter jets an replaced them with missles cause they thought that missles made them invicible and untouchable but that was a huge mistake when missles failed and they were confronted in dog fights without there guns on the fighter jets.

 

[Scorpion82]

Nothing is invicible you better remember that, as US once removed the guns off fighter jets an replaced them with missles cause they thought that missles made them invicible and untouchable but that was a huge mistake when missles failed and they were confronted in dog fights without there guns on the fighter jets.

Times have changed and the comparison of missile reliability and stealth is not well suited here. It's of course important to take into account that LO doesn't mean invincible. Rely on stealth and expecting that the enemy won't see you is dangerous in my opinion. One of the reasons the F-22 was designed to be difficult to intercept by advanced early warning sensors such as its ESM and its high altitude and sustained supersonic speed performance.

 

[jaffo4011]

Times have changed and the comparison of missile reliability and stealth is not well suited here. It's of course important to take into account that LO doesn't mean invincible. Rely on stealth and expecting that the enemy won't see you is dangerous in my opinion. One of the reasons the F-22 was designed to be difficult to intercept by advanced early warning sensors such as its ESM and its high altitude and sustained supersonic speed performance.

thats true but technological advances are soon matched by opponents.the opposition can and does catch up.
the f22,typhoon and rafale hold advantages in some areas but it doesnt last long.i predict that stealth is the quickest asset to be overhauled and then it comes down to your basics of air warfare again...