New Indian Air Force Fighter competition

[harryriedl]

isn't this fun it seems the topic seems to have decended into a flamebating mess :shudder come on if you want a Russia is best thread create one.



it was quite intersting three pages ago

 

[Preceptor]

2nd reminder

Please keep within the scope of the thread and discuss the needs of the Indian Air Force, and which aircraft can best meet those needs. What is not needed or appropriate is to have this thread descend into a "this vs. that" type thread or something of similar ilk.

Members should restrain themselves from such posts.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Yes, very fine... it needed a full engine refurb every time it touched Mach 3.

Everytime.now stop accepting every bit of grapevine as gospel truth.I do not wish to indulge into hair splitting semantics as to what exactly was the top speed of Foxbat for I know the moment I would say 3.x there would be yet another Mr. know it all to say 3.y.The point is for an aircraft developed in 70's era Mig-25 indeed was a quality piece of equipment that did its job with little fuss My comments were in response to the postor who was rediculing the same without any facts to furbish.

And please elaborate on that Air-to-Air capability. AA-5???

Considering the fact that no aircraft in the past and even now with speed in excess of 2.5mach and a Service cieleing of 70k+ has never fielded any sort of weapons Mig-25 did have a pair of R40D(AA-6) for self defense.I guess it does have a F-18 against one of its kills .

Btw althoogh was envisaged as an interceptor it was mainly used for reconnaisance you have lots of info regarding the latter on the NET.

 

[powerslavenegi]

isn't this fun it seems the topic seems to have decended into a flamebating mess :shudder come on if you want a Russia is best thread create one. it was quite intersting three pages ago

It isnt a flame baiting some people are so obssed with buzzwords that they use em for the heck of it.The point is facts need to be kept straight and perspective be defined if you are so worried about the context of the discussion then the first offender should get the stick.

I have never in my post taken any sides; infact in this case making sweeping statements like USA==Quality and Russia==Quantity is dorky logic.Both countries have contributed immensely in their respective areas of expertise,just because a postor has personal bias towards one does not entitle him/her to show one of the above in poor light.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Lockheed is really interested in indian market
But this move can be considered as destroy the indo Russian 5th generation fighter project ?????????

They have nothing on the plate to offer as of now, India has long back shed the notion of Buyers airforce anything withtout a TOT and license to manufacture leave alone the F-35 even Raptor does not stand a chance.

The real issue is Indian defense industry has many programmes runing inhouse like the BVR AAM, indeginous MFD displys and other avionics now without acces to the source codes of the imported platform would mean these would be incompatible with the imported platform.

MRCA tender is not a weapon its a platform which would carry a host of modules like the targetting pod,IRST mod,armamanet,MAW ,COMLINK etc now
a access to technology would mean a seam less integration between the modules and the platform which is what the IAF wants for this would enable the IAF to be immune to foreign sanctions and armtwisting tactics which major powers often resort to.

All in all the ball is in US court if they wish to enter the Indian market then they would have to honour the terms of the tender as laid by IAF,until then its gonna be an all Russai affair (I dont know about the EU canards for both CAPTOR and RBE2 are still under development).

 

[f-22fan12]

Lockheed is really interested in indian market
But this move can be considered as destroy the indo Russian 5th generation fighter project ?????????

That is probobly why the U.S./Lockheed would do this. They want to ruin anything that benifits Russia.

 

[sidewinder2006]

Hey Guys... I was reading an article in f-16.net website about the MMRCA deal.In that article it states that eurofighter typhoon is now eliminated from the list of probables by IAF. Although they gave no link to support the claim still can anybody put light on this news ??

Thnx in advance

 

[ainanup23]

For All

Hello, i take it we are tallking about the Indian MRCA program for 126 figthers, primarily to replace the fishbed family. Well my vote will be on the russian mig-35, a few reasons; they have experince with fulcrums in the apst and have built them at HAL, its a good medium MRCA with a lot of technology development in it (TV, AESA). Also, its too soon to go with american combat planes, the american have a habit of embargo when they disapprove of things that you do, for now the indians are going too be very careful, and rightly so. Cost is a factor too, the Mig 35 will still be much cheaper than super hornet, eurofigther, rafale. Thoughts please....

There seem to be a lot of undercurrents regarding the new fighter for IAF. Well the bulk of IAF`s fleet consists of MIG-21 of various versions. IAF has a strange varieties of fighters from the French mirages to the British Jaguars ( correct me if I am wrong..) All of them have served well. But the Mig-21s are beyond their service lives. IAF wants to replace these Mig-21s as they keep crashing . The inhouse LCA was supposed to replace the Mig-21s ,but due to delays IAF has called for global tenders from manufacturers to procure 126 fighter aircrafts toreplace the ageing Mig-21s.IAF is gunning for the Mirages 2000, which have done well in the recent Kargil conflict. Also Mirages are part of India`s Nuvlear delivery system.

IAF would look for the best and calling for tenders only gives them the edge interm of bargaining power. US has pitched for F-16s & F-18s. But seroiusly they are unlikely to go through even if they are thrown in the ring . The version of MIrages that IAF wants are out of production, although the asembly lines can be thrown open if the tender goes to the French. As about the rest contenders , the Mig-35s and the Swedish JAS Gripen both of them are the real competitor. IAF has sufferred due to delay in deliveries of SU-30MKI and there are problems in supply cycles with russian defence industry. But MIG-35 is a good bet. It seems to be of later generation of the Mig-29s which are in service with the IAF. If the IAF is serious about getting the next generation of fighter then technically it will settle for the Swedish baby, given its latest in technology. Also IAF is looking for a lighter replacement for Mig-21s not bulky machines like the F-18s. Nothing can be said as US and Indiahas signed the Nuclear deal , it may seek favour for letting the whole world sell it nuclear reactor to India. But the chips lies with India as how it plays its card.

 

[sidewinder2006]

Well as far as I know..MMRCA deal is not meant to replace Fishbeds..its for the replacement of Mig 23 and Mig 27s in IAF service...

 

[ainanup23]

Be Realistic

India has been offered the new fifth generation f-35 fighter jets by the united states.
ITS BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!
here's the link:


New Delhi: Unmatched stealth and super cruise - the Indian Air Force got a glimpse of the future of air combat in an American presentation on its next-generation fighter, the F-35, on Tuesday.

There were indications that the US is willing to share this new weapon with India, but it's clearly a carrot for giving the older F-16 a leg up in the Indian tender for 126 fighter aircraft.

Says Lockheed Martin's Royce Caplinger, "Beyond the RFP that's on the horizon, the F-35 too could play a role, sometime in the future."

The Americans are raising the bar for the competition in the Indian arms bazaar. They are making offers which are difficult to resist. India is being told that it can have the new generation stealth fighter for the price of an F-16.

"Think one to one and I am serious when I say this," says Caplinger.

So, the F-16 is now being sold as the transition to a fifth generation fighter, which has no parallel among the competition. And affordability is the key to this sales pitch.

The price is about $50 million apiece at current prices. The Americans promise that the F-35 will take India into a different league.

"It's a game changer, in every sense of the word," says Caplinger.

The Joint Strike Aircraft will be operationalised only by 2014. The first of India's 126 fighters of an earlier generation will only start arriving by then.

So, the signal that the F-35 would be available is bound to raise an Indian dilemma: Is India investing over Rs 40,000 crore in fighters which will be rendered obsolete by a similarly-priced aircraft?

.

The real stuff is, use ur senses and common sense, the media will always exagerrate news, forget F-35,Us has even barred the export of F-22, where do u think the questuion of F-35 being exported to India, it wouldn`t even move to UK.

 

[ainanup23]

Well as far as I know..MMRCA deal is not meant to replace Fishbeds..its for the replacement of Mig 23 and Mig 27s in IAF service...

They will replace almost all fighter and take the IAF`s role even in the next decades.

 

[ainanup23]

Who would have thought in 1971 that one day we would be supplying advanced fighters to eastern bloc nations? And that they would also be a part of NATO?

The 1971 Indo-Pak war did not happen in a vacuum. The Soviet Union backed their guy and we backed ours, and this was a reality in almost every conflict during the Cold War period.

The world has moved on.

Well there are always another side of every events. The 1971 Indo-Pak war was planned by both the neighbours in advance. Indian Army Chief General SAM MANEKSHAW took almost a year to plan train his men and move his logistics befor making his move. He got all that he wanted from the then Indian Govt. The Pakistan Army made a blunder to attack some posts of India Army in the east without assessing what they are calling for . The Indian army,airforce and the navy almost cordened of East Pakistan ( Now Bangladesh ) . Hats of to the 1971 war , otherwise India would have to take on the Pakistan missiles both on the east and the west. As for selling arms , in international politics no nations have parmanent friends or foes, u only have markets and buyers for your wares.

 

[eaf-f16]

Yes, very fine... it needed a full engine refurb every time it touched Mach 3.

And please elaborate on that Air-to-Air capability. AA-5???

It never even did that. It flew Mach 2.7 which was enough for it to be impossible to intercept at the time of it's release but when fighters like the F-15 came along it's flaws really started to show like the 5g limit on the airframe. But it's still impressive because it out ran missiles. Other than that it's a piece of garbage compared to what's out there now (or then really).

 

[sashikanth]

Well there are always another side of every events. The 1971 Indo-Pak war was planned by both the neighbours in advance. Indian Army Chief General SAM MANEKSHAW took almost a year to plan train his men and move his logistics befor making his move. He got all that he wanted from the then Indian Govt. The Pakistan Army made a blunder to attack some posts of India Army in the east without assessing what they are calling for . The Indian army,airforce and the navy almost cordened of East Pakistan ( Now Bangladesh ) . Hats of to the 1971 war , otherwise India would have to take on the Pakistan missiles both on the east and the west. As for selling arms , in international politics no nations have parmanent friends or foes, u only have markets and buyers for your wares.

I totally agree with your assesment of the 1971 war.

 

[ainanup23]

no, the RAF no longer operates any free fall or stand off nukes. WE177 -green parrot- was retired from RAF inventory.

Only the French with there ASMP (2) has a tactile nuke capability within the EU now, and these are/or will be operated from Rafale M/Mirage 2000D 9 and its rafale replacement

Thanks, that`s a nice piece of information. And may be that`s because of which IAF is gunning for the Mirage 2000 version. Also in the pre-1998 scenario IAF had practised tatics with Mirage 2000.

 

[swerve]

Thanks, that`s a nice piece of information. And may be that`s because of which IAF is gunning for the Mirage 2000 version. Also in the pre-1998 scenario IAF had practised tatics with Mirage 2000.

The only Mirage 2000 version equipped to fire the ASMP is the 2-seat Mirage 2000N, which has not been exported or offered for export.

 

[kato]

The only Mirage 2000 version equipped to fire the ASMP is the 2-seat Mirage 2000N, which has not been exported or offered for export.

Or the other way around:
The only aircraft equipped to fire ASMP were/are the Mirage IVP, Mirage 2000N and Super Etendard. In the future also Rafale from F3 Standard onward.
The only aircraft of these to be exported was the Super Etendard, and that was before the French Navy rewired theirs to follow the Mirage IVP in the nuclear penetration role.

However, the Mirage 2000D is a "conventional" modification of the 2000N. Afaik the modification is mostly new electronics to better fit the conventional strike role (different countermeasures and jammers, modernized navigation), and lack of the centerline ASMP launch rail, wiring and software (i.e. lacking the entire ASMP compatibility requirements).

 

[kams]

The only Mirage 2000 version equipped to fire the ASMP is the 2-seat Mirage 2000N, which has not been exported or offered for export.

Wepanizaton of Indian Nuclear 'device' started in 1980's. Jaguar was the first aircraft considered. However the Bomb design India then had made the ground clearance only 2". So work started to improve bomb design as well as to integrate the bomb to newly acquired Mirage 2000 and Mig-29s. By the end of 80's IAf had both the aircraft fitted out to deliver Nuclear weapons and final qualification air delivered Nuclear bomb was done in 1994. IAF started practicing toss bombing technique using M2K and Mig-27s in late 80's.

 

[jaffo4011]

according to this report;

Biggest deal: IAF may buy 189 jets for $20bn - Times Of India

the f16 and f18 have been knocked out of the mrca competition after field trials together with 2 other competitors,the f35 and gripen......the typhoon and rafale bids are ongoing for the huge contract....

 

[youpii]

according to this report;

Biggest deal: IAF may buy 189 jets for $20bn - Times Of India

the f16 and f18 have been knocked out of the mrca competition after field trials together with 2 other competitors,the f35 and gripen......the typhoon and rafale bids are ongoing for the huge contract....

Did they disclose equipments & weapons provided with the planes?