sidewinder2006
New Member
You should not....that was just a bad joke.. [
]
]
F/A-22: To Fly High or Get its Wings Clipped
- Thread starter LancerMc
- Start date
Its like two brothers playing cowboys. "bang your dead!" The younger brother often wins...
But when things get serious the younger brother ends up crying to his mummy.
[sarcasm]Wow!! Lets handicap the F-22's preventing them from using AMRAAM until 20 miles in simulations.. That'll make it nice and fair and would really show the combat capabilities of both aircraft!!! [/sarcasm]
Simulations have sooo many restrictions applied like the F-15's getting destroyed by India's suhkois.
Nothing currently flying has a chance against the F-22.
But when things get serious the younger brother ends up crying to his mummy.
[sarcasm]Wow!! Lets handicap the F-22's preventing them from using AMRAAM until 20 miles in simulations.. That'll make it nice and fair and would really show the combat capabilities of both aircraft!!! [/sarcasm]
Simulations have sooo many restrictions applied like the F-15's getting destroyed by India's suhkois.
Nothing currently flying has a chance against the F-22.
sidewinder2006
New Member
Absolutely true ! Current generation fighters hardly have a chance against raptor..no doubt abt that !
But as far as American F-15s kicked out by IAF su 30 ,you are missing a very valid point rjmaz1...that is the over dependence of US pilots on technology rather than pilot skills.
A very disturbing fact for US that their pilots are not the best skilled in the world although they have the most advanced training regimes.And if the technological advances of US can be negated in a war like shooting down their AWACS....they will be helpless..certainly a pain for US war planners coz not every country in the world are IRAQ !
And as far as restriction goes both sides have a very valid reason for that.Indians certainly would not allow a BVR combat simply because that would force their sukhois to illuminate their radar at full strength and nobody wants to give away these secrets just for the sake of a wargame. I read an article abt Waddington excersise that IAF sukhois didn't use their RADAR at all in that exercise
------------------------------------------------
Anyway back to the topic..Guys although RAPTOR is a league ahead of all current fighters it is still using same AAMs for BVR combat such as slammer.
Can anybody tell me what are the Raptor specific advancement are being planned in the AAM arena??
But as far as American F-15s kicked out by IAF su 30 ,you are missing a very valid point rjmaz1...that is the over dependence of US pilots on technology rather than pilot skills.
A very disturbing fact for US that their pilots are not the best skilled in the world although they have the most advanced training regimes.And if the technological advances of US can be negated in a war like shooting down their AWACS....they will be helpless..certainly a pain for US war planners coz not every country in the world are IRAQ !
And as far as restriction goes both sides have a very valid reason for that.Indians certainly would not allow a BVR combat simply because that would force their sukhois to illuminate their radar at full strength and nobody wants to give away these secrets just for the sake of a wargame. I read an article abt Waddington excersise that IAF sukhois didn't use their RADAR at all in that exercise
------------------------------------------------
Anyway back to the topic..Guys although RAPTOR is a league ahead of all current fighters it is still using same AAMs for BVR combat such as slammer.
Can anybody tell me what are the Raptor specific advancement are being planned in the AAM arena??
sashikanth
New Member
nothing can really be said about the f-22 until and unless they come out on full production state.
?? They are in full production. eg, there are more operational F-22's than Rafales.
IIRC there are over 85 in service.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
& they are all set to be deployed in combat this year IIRC.
sidewinder2006
New Member
85 ?????!!!!!!! are u sure ??
If that is true then I will be very surprised.Coz as far as I know US will only induct about 120-150 (abt 6-7 sq) of raptors primarily because of their insane cost as they are committed in buying JSF in large numbers..
I might be wrong but 85 seems a bit unrealistic..at least its too early to acquire 85 of those beautiful birds..
I've sent an email to a mate in USAF who's a TAC planner. He should be able to give me indicatives.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Sorry mate, but you are kidding yourself.
Basing this opinion on an exercise designed to IMPROVE the skill of the Indian pilots by testing them against a particular level of threat...
nfloorl: Well, the individual pilots used their aircraft's radar or GCI. How else did they find the American aircraft? Perhaps through radio commmunication of coordinates? If you have the belief that this was some sort of "free play" airex, I suggest you should read a bit more.
Can you state in detail, the RoE's of the airex? Are you aware of the USAF TR's for such ACM? Do you know what the objectives of each side were?
Were the Americans simply satisfied with exercising with the IAF, AT ALL and not concerned about the "results" of said "air combat"???
Answer any of these questions and I'll be impressed.
I very much doubt the validity of the published "results" and basing an opinion of the level of skill exhibited by the American pilots is a dangerous thing to do in MY opinion.
In sheer flying hours alone, they exceed virtually every other airforce...
The Su37 is a good fighter but it's still a glorified Su27 and if you look at the reall differences between the two you kinda start thinking Propaganda, they're certainly trying to sell all they can since they're no longer the USSR with all those extra rubles. I've heard the Eurofighter has been grounded recently because of high speed instability. I read it's their fly by wire going hay wire. One thing for certain the F/A 22 has been tested and developed more then any other fighter in history so I'm pretty comfortable in the claims they make and I'm willing to bet they're conservative estimates. Hutch
This simply hasn't happened and the debate might even be better served discussing AtoA missiles and SAM's. It's much cheaper and probably hugely more effective to defeat all these great warplanes with missiles. Every one of them has a heat signature and even 25 years ago a foxbat could burn through radar so things aren't stagnant and as much as I love the Raptor if we're going to buy the 185 or so presently in the works we're in deep trouble indeed. B.T.W. The Typhoon has been grounded because their fly by wire is fly by hay wire according to British sources. Perhaps when they work out the bugs it'll turn into the fighter your talking about. Hutchaussie,i take you are excluding the typhoon kills which were,as far as i am aware,straight forward kills of the f22 and not after being already taken out.this occurred during the recent deployment in the us by the typhoon conversion unit of the raf...
Yes thats correct.
Though the F-22 has only just become operational they have been in product for many years.
They have enough F-22's right now for a frontline attack to take out any country.
The USAF is planning to buy 183. Most have been ordered. Over 100 have been built. Of those 183, some will be kept in reserve. 120-150 sounds about right as the number to be in front-line service at any one time. No inconsistency.
Why are some of them kept in reserve?
I thought that the F-22 was said to be a good step forward when it comes to maintenance and reliability.
I would have thought that the USAF prefers to keep as many Raptors as possible in service while putting older F-15s into the reserve.
Or are the reserve Raptors meant for something like a rotation so that the operational squadrons are always at full strength and not a pure attrition/combat loss reserve?
I thought that the F-22 was said to be a good step forward when it comes to maintenance and reliability.
I would have thought that the USAF prefers to keep as many Raptors as possible in service while putting older F-15s into the reserve.
Or are the reserve Raptors meant for something like a rotation so that the operational squadrons are always at full strength and not a pure attrition/combat loss reserve?
radiosilence
jints
There are 91 Raptors in active service. I would be interested to know why some will be kept in reserve.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Yup, the final 60 to make 183 were ordered Tuesday
Lockheed Wins $5bn Multi-year Contract for F-22 Production
This will keep production open untill 2011, I imagine though there could be some continuing orders, going by how long they produced they produced Eagles.
EuroFighter Grounded
http://www.geraldhowarth.org.uk/record.jsp?type=release&ID=32
Absolutely, I can't stand it when people make claims that can't be supported. This article is mild compared to some of the horror stories I've read but should give you an idea of the problem JWCook. Regards, Hutch
http://www.geraldhowarth.org.uk/record.jsp?type=release&ID=32
"recently" = April 2006
"The Typhoon" = some Typhoon
"high-speed instability" and "haywire FBW" and "bugs" = no spares and maintenance due to financing control
Interesting spin. Or did you miss to link another, second source?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Hmmm... The article is some 15 months old, and at the time it was written the RAF only had a total of 26 Typhoons in inventory, total. How many Typhoons are in RAF colours currently, and how in service with anyone? IIRC, there was last year a rush to get a Typhoon squad in IOC prior to the 1st Raptor sqd entering IOC. Also, excepting for the reference to a collapsed undercarriage which occurred prior to the unit entering service, it doesn't specifiy what issues the other 6 aircraft are having.
I would consider the information too old and/or too vague to assert that the Typhoons are having issues at present. By way of example, I believe that a Raptor was lost, due to FBW issues in 2005. Because that had occurred in the past, does it mean that the Raptor now has a problem with the FBW system?
-Cheers