Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[nero]

where did you get the idea that the system you are getting is much more advanced than Phalcon? On just the size of the platform alone, you are facing against a platform that can carry a more power radar + more onboard equipment + more operators.

.The Y-8 & SAAB-2000+ erieye with phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar


.

 

[gf0012-aust]

On just the size of the platform alone, you are facing against a platform that can carry a more power radar + more onboard equipment + more operators.

Absolutely, there is no way in Hades that a beam system mounted on a small/medium business aircraft (and preferably a jet) will outperform Phalcon on a large business jet.

Sensor systems are extremely power hungry - and radiant, so smaller beam systems are always going to be a compromise vehicle of choice.

In addition, until you go to MESA sized systems (like Wedgetail) then all smaller beam systems suffer from a "rose pattern" sensor problem. The rose pattern means that the planes must compensate for that interrogation limitation by altering their tactics - and that is also a compromised event.

 

[gf0012-aust]

.The Y-8 & SAAB-2000+ erieye with phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar.

ESA systems do have an advantage over MSA, but ESA on small beam systems suffer from significant coverage issues (ie rose patterning)

they are no way as competent at the output level in both power and associated depth when compared to full sized systems.

I had an interesting discussion with an Old Crows associate a few months ago, as an operator he still preferred the discretionary capability of an E3 over a beam system such as eyrie. He'd just come off a project involving the US Army and their own battlefield warning systems development.

(I do have Old Crows membership, and IIRC, so does Occum)

 

[mysterious]

But is it plausible to say that India would, at any given time (considering hostile situations), only commit two and at max. three Phalcons to cover its eastern border while Pakistan could reach parity by using five Erieyes with Pakistan's narrow geographical size helping as well?

The Chinese AEW systems could commit to Pakistan's western borders and the US sourced systems would find themselves placed under Naval command I presume?

 

[Raptor.22]

Pakistans Air Force is definately improving, the new JF-17 were some great additions, really manueverable aircrafts. The F-16 is still their best though. The A-5's have to be disbanded, those jets aren't so reliable and have much mechanical trouble as well.

 

[Wale14]

Pakistans Air Force is definately improving, the new JF-17 were some great additions, really manueverable aircrafts. The F-16 is still their best though. The A-5's have to be disbanded, those jets aren't so reliable and have much mechanical trouble as well.

i agree with you. i definately like the new JF-17's. Their design is really unique, it was influenced with the design of the F-16 and the F-18.

i dont know if the JF-17 will live up to expectation though, that still a question. its fuel consumption is very high and speed is one thing it kinda lacks

 

[SABRE]

i agree with you. i definately like the new JF-17's. Their design is really unique, it was influenced with the design of the F-16 and the F-18.

i dont know if the JF-17 will live up to expectation though, that still a question. its fuel consumption is very high and speed is one thing it kinda lacks

Mach 1.8 is lacking in speed? AFAIK F-18 has Mach 1.8 speed as well.

 

[Wale14]

Mach 1.8 is lacking in speed? AFAIK F-18 has Mach 1.8 speed as well.

i stand corrected

 

[SABRE]

i stand corrected

Mach 1.8 to Mach 2 is the speed of most of the fighter aircraft. Only MiG-25 went upto Mach-3 (more or less) & it was not a proper combat aircraft, more of a high altitude recon aircraft. More than that is making an aircraft a Ballestic Missile & I doubt the pilot can take more speed. Plus, fighters dont continiously fly at the speed of sound.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Only MiG-25 went upto Mach-3 (more or less) & it was not a proper combat aircraft, more of a high altitude recon aircraft.

Mig 25 could not do sustained Mach 3 - and according to even their test engineers it was only able to do this for a max of 15 minutes before severe engine degradation kicked in. They almost always required a rebuild after each mach 3 sustained attempt. Mig 25 was released as an interceptor as well as recce - in fact 75% of all Mig 25's were interceptors.

the Mig 31 is a much better generational improvement.

conversely, 90% of the SR-71's entire fleet recorded hours were above Mach 3 - an thats thousands of hours.

 

[SABRE]

Mig 25 could not do sustained Mach 3 - and according to even their test engineers it was only able to do this for a max of 15 minutes before severe engine degradation kicked in. They almost always required a rebuild after each mach 3 sustained attempt.

The point I was making here was that fighter aircraft speed ranges from Mach 1.8 to Mach 2. Your information about MiG-25 further strengthens the point

Mig 25 was released as an interceptor as well as recce - in fact 75% of all Mig 25's were interceptors.

I know the role the MiG-25 was designed for, but jobs it had performed since its induction rather put in a position of recon/spy plane than interceptor. The Soviet MiG-25 used to fly high altitude recon/spy missions over Iran & when Iranians aquired F-14s, they reduced the number of flights but some engagements were reported. Most of the time Iranians reported that Soviet MiG-25 pilots prefered to retreat than engage.

Same with Indians. They attempted few Recon/spy flights over Pakistan but never used the MiG-25 for engagement.

The Iraqis prefered to hide them in sand them send them against USAF or USNavy.

I dont knw the reasons why most operaters of MiG-25 used the aircraft for engagement (may be I am just ill-informed).

the Mig 31 is a much better generational improvement.

conversely, 90% of the SR-71's entire fleet recorded hours were above Mach 3 - an thats thousands of hours.

Not going off topic; the point here was Wale14's calling JF-17's Mach 1.8 as lacking in speed. & my point being that from Mach 1.8 to Mach 2 is prefered speed of fighters, beyond that is perhaps niether necessary nor sufficient.

 

[globaltracker]

The point I was making here was that fighter aircraft speed ranges from Mach 1.8 to Mach 2. Your information about MiG-25 further strengthens the point



I know the role the MiG-25 was designed for, but jobs it had performed since its induction rather put in a position of recon/spy plane than interceptor. The Soviet MiG-25 used to fly high altitude recon/spy missions over Iran & when Iranians aquired F-14s, they reduced the number of flights but some engagements were reported. Most of the time Iranians reported that Soviet MiG-25 pilots prefered to retreat than engage.

Same with Indians. They attempted few Recon/spy flights over Pakistan but never used the MiG-25 for engagement.

The Iraqis prefered to hide them in sand them send them against USAF or USNavy.

I dont knw the reasons why most operaters of MiG-25 used the aircraft for engagement (may be I am just ill-informed).



Not going off topic; the point here was Wale14's calling JF-17's Mach 1.8 as lacking in speed. & my point being that from Mach 1.8 to Mach 2 is prefered speed of fighters, beyond that is perhaps niether necessary nor sufficient.

There are different builds of the aircraft. One of the build is for recon.
India didnot buy the Mig-25 Interceptor version it bought only recon one, so a aircrataft cannot intrercept without any weapons isn't it?

 

[SABRE]

There are different builds of the aircraft. One of the build is for recon.
India didnot buy the Mig-25 Interceptor version it bought only recon one, so a aircrataft cannot intrercept without any weapons isn't it?

Ok I dint knw IAF MiG-25 was a recon aircraft.

 

[mysterious]

Perhaps you would like to shed light on my last post Sabre. Thanks

 

[SABRE]

Perhaps you would like to shed light on my last post Sabre. Thanks

U mean the AWACS post?

Considering the common sense, what you posted would be the pretty much the case ... only that I think in time of conflict India would committ not more than 2 Phalcons.

 

[mysterious]

What I was trying to get at was, would Pakistan be able to counter those two or three Phalcons that India deploys along the common border by using more Erieye systems and/or Chinese AWACs (that the PAF has been interested in) or the US sourced systems?

 

[gf0012-aust]

What I was trying to get at was, would Pakistan be able to counter those two or three Phalcons that India deploys along the common border by using more Erieye systems and/or Chinese AWACs (that the PAF has been interested in) or the US sourced systems?

the problem using AWACs against AWACs is that it becomes a redundant operation - and the Phalcon is going to have superior detection capabilities in some cycles.

the only way to deal with an AWACs is to push it back if you can't neutralise it - and that means trying to launch against it before it can vector in DEAD and air supremacy assets.

 

[mysterious]

That would mean, PAF creating a long-ranged land based radar network towards its eastern border with modern long-ranged SAMs deployed to take full opportunity at bringing down a Phalcon, IMHO.

 

[yess]

Pakistan pilots get bravery award

Two Pakistani pilots who carried out a daring rescue of a mountaineer are to be given Slovenia's top award for bravery, Pakistani officials say.

Slovenian Tomaz Humar got stranded on the western end of the 8,125m Nanga Parbat mountain in the Himalayas two years ago.

He remained for around a week on top of the world's ninth-highest peak.

The helicopter pilots plucked the 38-year-old from an icy ledge 6,000m up the peak known as "killer mountain".

The Slovenian president will present Lt Col Rashid Ullah Beg and Lt Col Khalid Amir Rana with the Golden Order for Services in the country's capital, Ljubljana, this month "for risking their lives during the rescue mission", a Pakistan army statement said.

Isolated

Correspondents say that Mr Humar - climbing alone - was saved in one of the most daring rescue operations carried out by the Pakistani air force.

He was unable to get off the mountain after slipping onto an isolated icy ledge, and was further constrained by a combination of altitude sickness and poor weather, the army said in its statement.

He was further endangered by falling rocks and avalanches.

At the time the rescue operation was "unprecedented" at such a height, the army said.

The statement said he would not have been rescued if it had not been for the pilots' "incredible professional skills and undaunted courage".


hey guyz is this like the first time a foreign air force is getting bravery??

 

[mysterious]

No. Bravery awards have been received by other Air Forces too. As for the PAF, great demonstration of skills by the two pilots who saved Mr. Humar but PAF pilots have received medals and awards from foreign countries before as well. Take the serving PAF chief for example, he has received highest honors from Turkey, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc.