Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions
- Thread starter P.A.F
- Start date
Mr. Hussain, answer to your question about the number of years added to life is in your post. There is no separate LM program from a MLU upgrade. They are the same.
ELU does not apply to PAF.
PAF to seek more Chinese aircraft, says air chief
By our correspondent
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) aims to acquire 200-250 JF-17 Thunder (FC-1) fighter aircraft in place of the 150 originally envisaged, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed has said in an interview published in the latest issue of the prestigious Jane’s Defence Weekly, an international defence magazine.
The PAF’s first two JF-17s were displayed publicly on 23 March following their arrival earlier in the month. The Pakistani Air chief also spoke about the controversy surrounding reports of the Russia engines intended to power the JF-17. “We haven’t contracted the Russians on this [the engine], so the deal is between Russia and China.We have no issues related to this, although there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path,” said the Pakistani air chief.
According to Jane’s Russian sources had initially said emphatically, that the RD-93 engines supplied to China and meant to power the JF-17 could not be re-exported to Pakistan. This position was reversed in November 2006, when senior officials from Klimov and China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group said during a joint press briefing at the Zhuhai Air Show in China that a re-export deal was nearing completion.
According to Jane’s the Pakistani Air chief’s reference to “efforts to impede progress” relates to strong lobbying efforts by the Indian government following the Zhuhai statement. JaneÕs adds that Indian sources say, Russian President Vladimir Putin subsequently “assured” New Delhi during his January visit to India that Russian engines would not power the PAF fighters.
But the publication goes on to say, Pakistani sources claim they have a clear understanding from Chinese authorities that there will be no Russian effort to block the supply of the RD-93 engines to Pakistan. “The Chinese have told us the Russians haven’t issued a written licence but the Russians will not block the supply of the RD-93 to Pakistan,” one senior Pakistani government official told Jane’s. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed also told Jane’s that Pakistan should take delivery of another six or seven JF-17 aircraft before 2008, which would be used for testing. “These are all weapons that are on our inventory and we have lots of weapons,” he added, referring to the test programme’s weapon integration phase.
The Pakistani Air Chief expects the first JF-17s to be inducted in a PAF squadron by the end of 2008, with serial production to start at the rate of up to 20 annually. However, the programme’s planned enlargement could see an expansion of production facilities at the Pakistan Aeronautical complex in Kamra or some off-the-shelf acquisitions from China, Jane’s quotes the Pakistani air chief.
On other important projects with China, the Pakistani air chief also revealed that Pakistan is well advanced in negotiations with China on the possible acquisition of up to 40 J-10 fighters which are the most advanced fighter aircrafts so far produced by China. Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf was given a detailed briefing on the J-10 during his last visit to China.
“We are serious in our discussions and, as air chief, I look forward to getting this programme (of the J-10) to a stage where we can contract this. I am looking at two squadrons of aircraft, anywhere between 32 and 40 platforms,” said the Air chief.
The Pakistani Air chief also revealed in the interview to Jane’s Defence Weekly that China has offered Pakistan an airborne warning and control system aircraft. “We have tested and evaluated, finding it fairly good but there are areas where we definitely want improvements, both in the platform and in the radar,” he said, adding that all these objectives should be achievable.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=6815
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PAF is aiming for 200-250 JF-17s instead of 150. Initial plans for J-10 program include 2 squadrons - 32-40 aircraft. Interesting part though is the AWACS - could the PAF be planning to use IL-76 as a platform instead of Y-8?
By our correspondent
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) aims to acquire 200-250 JF-17 Thunder (FC-1) fighter aircraft in place of the 150 originally envisaged, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed has said in an interview published in the latest issue of the prestigious Jane’s Defence Weekly, an international defence magazine.
The PAF’s first two JF-17s were displayed publicly on 23 March following their arrival earlier in the month. The Pakistani Air chief also spoke about the controversy surrounding reports of the Russia engines intended to power the JF-17. “We haven’t contracted the Russians on this [the engine], so the deal is between Russia and China.We have no issues related to this, although there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path,” said the Pakistani air chief.
According to Jane’s Russian sources had initially said emphatically, that the RD-93 engines supplied to China and meant to power the JF-17 could not be re-exported to Pakistan. This position was reversed in November 2006, when senior officials from Klimov and China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group said during a joint press briefing at the Zhuhai Air Show in China that a re-export deal was nearing completion.
According to Jane’s the Pakistani Air chief’s reference to “efforts to impede progress” relates to strong lobbying efforts by the Indian government following the Zhuhai statement. JaneÕs adds that Indian sources say, Russian President Vladimir Putin subsequently “assured” New Delhi during his January visit to India that Russian engines would not power the PAF fighters.
But the publication goes on to say, Pakistani sources claim they have a clear understanding from Chinese authorities that there will be no Russian effort to block the supply of the RD-93 engines to Pakistan. “The Chinese have told us the Russians haven’t issued a written licence but the Russians will not block the supply of the RD-93 to Pakistan,” one senior Pakistani government official told Jane’s. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed also told Jane’s that Pakistan should take delivery of another six or seven JF-17 aircraft before 2008, which would be used for testing. “These are all weapons that are on our inventory and we have lots of weapons,” he added, referring to the test programme’s weapon integration phase.
The Pakistani Air Chief expects the first JF-17s to be inducted in a PAF squadron by the end of 2008, with serial production to start at the rate of up to 20 annually. However, the programme’s planned enlargement could see an expansion of production facilities at the Pakistan Aeronautical complex in Kamra or some off-the-shelf acquisitions from China, Jane’s quotes the Pakistani air chief.
On other important projects with China, the Pakistani air chief also revealed that Pakistan is well advanced in negotiations with China on the possible acquisition of up to 40 J-10 fighters which are the most advanced fighter aircrafts so far produced by China. Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf was given a detailed briefing on the J-10 during his last visit to China.
“We are serious in our discussions and, as air chief, I look forward to getting this programme (of the J-10) to a stage where we can contract this. I am looking at two squadrons of aircraft, anywhere between 32 and 40 platforms,” said the Air chief.
The Pakistani Air chief also revealed in the interview to Jane’s Defence Weekly that China has offered Pakistan an airborne warning and control system aircraft. “We have tested and evaluated, finding it fairly good but there are areas where we definitely want improvements, both in the platform and in the radar,” he said, adding that all these objectives should be achievable.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=6815
=====================
=====================
PAF is aiming for 200-250 JF-17s instead of 150. Initial plans for J-10 program include 2 squadrons - 32-40 aircraft. Interesting part though is the AWACS - could the PAF be planning to use IL-76 as a platform instead of Y-8?
Not so surprising (at least not for me). After the lates upgrades that took place on JF-17 I had a feeling the number would be increased. Many were asking "What aircraft will replace Mirage-V as maritime aircraft?" - the answer now clearly seems JF-17. Sometimes back I had a feeling that Mirage-V might be replaced by Chinese FBC-1, but that seems too far away an Idea. On the other side, there is an itch that says "China might buy good numbers of JF-17", when scratch it - but I won't be too certain about it.
On the AWACs. The 1st thing is that the Y-8 it self is an aircraft, you cant put it on IL-76, that would be like making A-380 in some way
. The AWACS from China is called KJ-200 (correct me someone if I am wrong). I cant say much about the IL-76, although I have seen IL-76 at Karachi & Islamabad airports - PAF might be evaluating it. But on the other hand PAF got A-310s from Qatar, we might see them as KJ-200's platform. (I am just speculating this).
* Current status of SAAB 2000/ERIEYE = Unknown (to me)
* SAAB 2000 for PIA = 7 units (delivery date = I think in late 2007 or some where in 2008)
* There first ERIEYE AWACS, according to past reports would come in 2009.
You know what I meantOn the AWACs. The 1st thing is that the Y-8 it self is an aircraft, you cant put it on IL-76, that would be like making A-380 in some way
Actually the reason why I think its IL-76 is because the PAF reportedly ordered 4 IL-78 Midas in-flight refueling aircraft. Logistically it would make sense to have as much commonality as possible. For that I think PAF is likely considering the IL-76.
PAF can consider, but KJ-2000 is one of the things that China won't export anytime soon.You know what I meant
Actually the reason why I think its IL-76 is because the PAF reportedly ordered 4 IL-78 Midas in-flight refueling aircraft. Logistically it would make sense to have as much commonality as possible. For that I think PAF is likely considering the IL-76.
Pakistan really has no need for something with the range and payload of JH-7.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant the PAF may be considering to put KJ-200 on the IL-76 to reduce logistical stress as it is reportedly procuring IL-78. Right now it appears that the PAF would use the KJ-200 as a basis for something that has longer range and better capability than the Erieye.
The PAF does classify the KJ-200 as an AWACS - or at least a potential one - while Erieye is an AEW&C. Is it possible to scale down the KJ-2000 for export purposes?
The reference here was of Y-8/KJ-200 not IL-76/KJ-2000.
Well the need is of course decided by the Pakistani officials & the threat level. Current threat level may not require range of JH-7 but long term threats are more importent as well. But it was just a distent idea. I dont think there is need for JH-7 on any level (at least not at this moment).
I think the MirageV for the Navy should be eventually replaced by the Rafale F3. If the Marlins are ordered from DCN, i believe PN should use this opportunity to upgrade its older French weapons systems. Same goes for the ancient Atlantiques, they need to be replaced by current configurations.
Atlantiques will be replaced by the new P-3Cs. Although the PN is adding a fighter squadron to its aviation wing, I doubt they will jump straight to Rafale F3. Would bring a smile if they can procure a squadron of F-16C/Ds.
ANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - APRIL 04, 2007
________________________________________
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed: Pakistan's Chief of Air Staff
Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad
'We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10'
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is undergoing a transition, positioning itself to acquire some of the latest versions of the US-built F-16 multirole fighter aircraft while increasing its reliance on China as a key supplier of hardware through the induction of the JF-17 'Thunder' fighter and future plans to acquire the J-10 fighter aircraft. Pakistan's reliance on China reflects something of a fail-safe philosophy following Islamabad's experience of sanctions imposed on the country in the 1990s.
Against this background, PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed aims to maintain his fighter fleet at a strength of 400 aircraft, including the induction of new aircraft from China and the US.
"We might end up buying another high-tech aircraft from the Chinese; the J-10 is something we're looking at along with the JF-17, which will in fact form the backbone of the Pakistan Air Force in the future," said ACM Ahmed. The PAF has received its first two JF-17s and these flew at the country's Resolution Day ceremony on 23 March in Islamabad. The service expects to receive a total of eight or nine JF-17s by the end of this year, although formal induction into the PAF will begin in just under two years. ACM Ahmed said the PAF had increased its initial target of buying 150 JF-17s to acquiring up to 250 aircraft. The future development of the JF-17 will allow Pakistan to induct its own choice of avionics and weapons already in stock.
"The shape of the JF-17 you see today is slightly different from the first prototype. We have added aerodynamic variations to make it more versatile and more manoeuvrable. We now hope that this particular shape will reflect the final configuration and we'll add the other capabilities of the aircraft," said ACM Ahmed. The JF-17 programme has not been without controversy, mainly surrounding the status of the aircraft's Russian-built RD-93 engine. A number of reports during the past three years claimed that Russia had not approved the re-export of the RD-93 engines from China to a third country - in this case Pakistan. The arrival of the two JF-17s equipped with the RD-93 engines has, however, confirmed what Western analysts are beginning to understand: that the Russians may have given verbal agreement to the re-export without issuing formal licences. According to Western defence analysts, the transaction may have been conducted in this manner as Russia is reluctant to annoy India, with which it has had a long-term partnership in defence sales. India, the analysts argue, has quietly lobbied to block the engine sale as a way of disrupting supplies to Pakistan.
"Frankly, the engine issue is between the Russians and the Chinese. We haven't contracted with the Russians on this so the deal is between Russia and China and we have no issues related to this," said ACM Ahmed, adding that "there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path, but I don't think they will work". For the moment, the ACM is content with plans to buy a mix of new F-16 Block 50/52 C/Ds (an initial 18 and an option for an additional 18) and some 26 older F-16A/B models, under an agreement with Washington that gives Pakistan the status of a non-NATO US ally. This effectively means that Pakistan can be supplied with excess defence equipment where there is no cost involved for the platform but Islamabad is required to pay for upgrades.
The acquisition of the F-16A/B models has recently been the subject of some controversy. While the US Air Force is willing to release 12 of its older F-16s, the US Navy has refused to release up to 14 aircraft designated for Pakistan. ACM Ahmed said this could change the number of used F-16s that Pakistan plans to purchase, but the plan to buy a mix of new and used F-16s remained on track. "I am quite hopeful that the US Air Force will be able to release the 12 aircraft but we are not sure of the US Navy - we are working with them but we are not sure if they will release those aircraft for us," he said. "If they don't, the US Air Force will probably look at other aircraft in their inventory. They have a large number of A/Bs which could be made available."
For the future, the PAF is positioning itself to buy up to two squadrons of Chinese J-10 fighters as it seeks to diversify its inventory of top-of-the-range aircraft. ACM Ahmed said negotiations for the purchase have begun, with the PAF outlining its preference for avionics and weapon systems. "We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion]," he said.
Additionally, the PAF has been in negotiations with Beijing for the future purchase of Chinese-built airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft. While declining to specify which specific Chinese AEW is under consideration, ACM Ahmed noted: "We have tested and evaluated [the AEW aircraft] and [found it to be] fairly good, but there are areas where we definitely want improvement, both in the platform and radar."
This article was posted by crobato on www.sinodefenceforum.com he found it so credit goes to him
As PAF Chief said ….
“ We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion] “
well that’s kinda news for me I saw some of cockpit pictures at www.sinodefenceforum.com I don’t have detail of current avionics being used on J-10 perhaps it doesn’t satisfy Pakistan’s needs or rather is it the process to diversify the equipment and test its ability to compare it with Chinese systems as we know PAF and PLAAF may share the experience in future well not sure but certainly it’s a little surprise.
Cheers
________________________________________
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed: Pakistan's Chief of Air Staff
Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad
'We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10'
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is undergoing a transition, positioning itself to acquire some of the latest versions of the US-built F-16 multirole fighter aircraft while increasing its reliance on China as a key supplier of hardware through the induction of the JF-17 'Thunder' fighter and future plans to acquire the J-10 fighter aircraft. Pakistan's reliance on China reflects something of a fail-safe philosophy following Islamabad's experience of sanctions imposed on the country in the 1990s.
Against this background, PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed aims to maintain his fighter fleet at a strength of 400 aircraft, including the induction of new aircraft from China and the US.
"We might end up buying another high-tech aircraft from the Chinese; the J-10 is something we're looking at along with the JF-17, which will in fact form the backbone of the Pakistan Air Force in the future," said ACM Ahmed. The PAF has received its first two JF-17s and these flew at the country's Resolution Day ceremony on 23 March in Islamabad. The service expects to receive a total of eight or nine JF-17s by the end of this year, although formal induction into the PAF will begin in just under two years. ACM Ahmed said the PAF had increased its initial target of buying 150 JF-17s to acquiring up to 250 aircraft. The future development of the JF-17 will allow Pakistan to induct its own choice of avionics and weapons already in stock.
"The shape of the JF-17 you see today is slightly different from the first prototype. We have added aerodynamic variations to make it more versatile and more manoeuvrable. We now hope that this particular shape will reflect the final configuration and we'll add the other capabilities of the aircraft," said ACM Ahmed. The JF-17 programme has not been without controversy, mainly surrounding the status of the aircraft's Russian-built RD-93 engine. A number of reports during the past three years claimed that Russia had not approved the re-export of the RD-93 engines from China to a third country - in this case Pakistan. The arrival of the two JF-17s equipped with the RD-93 engines has, however, confirmed what Western analysts are beginning to understand: that the Russians may have given verbal agreement to the re-export without issuing formal licences. According to Western defence analysts, the transaction may have been conducted in this manner as Russia is reluctant to annoy India, with which it has had a long-term partnership in defence sales. India, the analysts argue, has quietly lobbied to block the engine sale as a way of disrupting supplies to Pakistan.
"Frankly, the engine issue is between the Russians and the Chinese. We haven't contracted with the Russians on this so the deal is between Russia and China and we have no issues related to this," said ACM Ahmed, adding that "there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path, but I don't think they will work". For the moment, the ACM is content with plans to buy a mix of new F-16 Block 50/52 C/Ds (an initial 18 and an option for an additional 18) and some 26 older F-16A/B models, under an agreement with Washington that gives Pakistan the status of a non-NATO US ally. This effectively means that Pakistan can be supplied with excess defence equipment where there is no cost involved for the platform but Islamabad is required to pay for upgrades.
The acquisition of the F-16A/B models has recently been the subject of some controversy. While the US Air Force is willing to release 12 of its older F-16s, the US Navy has refused to release up to 14 aircraft designated for Pakistan. ACM Ahmed said this could change the number of used F-16s that Pakistan plans to purchase, but the plan to buy a mix of new and used F-16s remained on track. "I am quite hopeful that the US Air Force will be able to release the 12 aircraft but we are not sure of the US Navy - we are working with them but we are not sure if they will release those aircraft for us," he said. "If they don't, the US Air Force will probably look at other aircraft in their inventory. They have a large number of A/Bs which could be made available."
For the future, the PAF is positioning itself to buy up to two squadrons of Chinese J-10 fighters as it seeks to diversify its inventory of top-of-the-range aircraft. ACM Ahmed said negotiations for the purchase have begun, with the PAF outlining its preference for avionics and weapon systems. "We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion]," he said.
Additionally, the PAF has been in negotiations with Beijing for the future purchase of Chinese-built airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft. While declining to specify which specific Chinese AEW is under consideration, ACM Ahmed noted: "We have tested and evaluated [the AEW aircraft] and [found it to be] fairly good, but there are areas where we definitely want improvement, both in the platform and radar."
This article was posted by crobato on www.sinodefenceforum.com he found it so credit goes to him
As PAF Chief said ….
“ We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion] “
well that’s kinda news for me I saw some of cockpit pictures at www.sinodefenceforum.com I don’t have detail of current avionics being used on J-10 perhaps it doesn’t satisfy Pakistan’s needs or rather is it the process to diversify the equipment and test its ability to compare it with Chinese systems as we know PAF and PLAAF may share the experience in future well not sure but certainly it’s a little surprise.
Cheers
TheDefender
New Member
Can someone here trace any deal between US and PAK other then the Planes,MLU kits,A-A Missiles,A-G Missiles and bombs.I can to know through my resources that these is a deal going on between the US and PAK which does not includes the AC and objects related to that.Something is related to the ground I think
I think SABRE,PAF or Pshamim can help but they seem to be on vacations what should I do now
I think SABRE,PAF or Pshamim can help but they seem to be on vacations what should I do now
PAF F-16s will go through something similar to MLU3.
PAF MLU F-16s will have JHMCS, AN/APG-68(V9), Link 16 and I believe most avionics and ECM/EW as the Block 52+.
PAF gets fighter squadron
The link is:
http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/20/top8.htm
PAF gets fighter squadron
ISLAMABAD, April 19: A new fighter squadron “No 27 Tactical Attack Squadron” was added to the Pakistan Air Force at a ceremony held at the PAF Base, Rafiqui (Shorkot), on Thursday.
The squadron would be equipped with modernised Mirages, specialised in night attack role, said a press release issued here.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, Chief of the Air Staff, was the chief guest at the ceremony.
He congratulated personnel of the squadron and the PAF on the achievement.
“The specialist night strike role of the squadron directly augments Pakistan’s war potential, as night fighting capability becomes an indispensable element in the present day air warfare,” he said.
The squadron personnel are called “Zarrars”, named after Hazrat Zarrar Bin Al Azwar, the favourite lieutenant of Hazrat Khalid Bin Walid.—APP
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Another good news for the PAF.
Pakistan Prime Minister is already on China visit these days, and some important agreements would be signed including the procurement/ joint ventures in the defence field. This would particularly help the PAF in upgrading/ modernising the fleet, and the related equipment.
The link is:
http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/20/top8.htm
PAF gets fighter squadron
ISLAMABAD, April 19: A new fighter squadron “No 27 Tactical Attack Squadron” was added to the Pakistan Air Force at a ceremony held at the PAF Base, Rafiqui (Shorkot), on Thursday.
The squadron would be equipped with modernised Mirages, specialised in night attack role, said a press release issued here.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, Chief of the Air Staff, was the chief guest at the ceremony.
He congratulated personnel of the squadron and the PAF on the achievement.
“The specialist night strike role of the squadron directly augments Pakistan’s war potential, as night fighting capability becomes an indispensable element in the present day air warfare,” he said.
The squadron personnel are called “Zarrars”, named after Hazrat Zarrar Bin Al Azwar, the favourite lieutenant of Hazrat Khalid Bin Walid.—APP
====================
Another good news for the PAF.
Pakistan Prime Minister is already on China visit these days, and some important agreements would be signed including the procurement/ joint ventures in the defence field. This would particularly help the PAF in upgrading/ modernising the fleet, and the related equipment.