Why ASEAN matters - in the era of great power competition

OPSSG

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Sandhi Yudha

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The first ever ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise (#ARNEX) will be held from 1 to 3 December 2021.
The exercise is aimed at increasing interoperability between the #ASEAN Member States Navies and Russian Navy to ensure the safety of maritime economic activity and civil navigation. It will be conducted in two phases: Harbour Phase (virtually) and Sea Phase.

According to some sources, the Sea Phase will be held near the west coast of Sumatra.
 

OPSSG

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Post 1 of 3: Geopolitical context of the 1st ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise

Please bear with me, as I share some incoherent thoughts.
The first ever ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise (#ARNEX) will be held from 1 to 3 December 2021.
1. By failing to stand with fellow ASEAN members, Indonesia is a leader with no followers within its own organisation. While ASEAN should engage in cooperation in the Russians in the civil sphere, for COVID recovery, it is highly inappropriate of Indonesia to set the tone that the Russian military can get away with invading their neighbours and shooting down a civilian airliner of an ASEAN member state. If might is right, the TNI AL is not mighty. It is in fact weak and can be easily bullied by China.

Q1: Why are we as ASEAN WASTING time on increasing interoperability with the Russian Navy in 2021?
  • We should remember that in July 2014, the little green men of Russia shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur in Ukraine).
The exercise is aimed at increasing interoperability between the #ASEAN Member States Navies and Russian Navy to ensure the safety of maritime economic activity and civil navigation.
2. There is no interoperability between the Russian Navy and Indonesian Navy (or Singapore Navy). Indonesia and Singapore are the largest and as the most capable navies in ASEAN, respectively. While there is value in working the Russian Navy in coordinating regional responses against maritime terrorism and piracy threats in Southeast Asia, there is little or no value trying to build ‘real’ interoperability at war fighting with the Russians.

3. There is no scenario where the Russians will take ASEAN’s side in any South China Sea dispute with China over EEZ claims by Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, or the Philippines — correctly understood, these are confidence and security building measures (CSBMs) — naval CSBMs, like a PASSEX, are in general limited activities, with little or no ‘real’ attempt at increasing interoperability.

4. Indonesia could have and should have delayed the conduct of this exercise by 2 to 3 years, at the very least — due to current Russian military activity that is seen as hostile to many in the EU.

5. If the TNI AL host the exercise, it is their responsibility to put out the press release with the correct talking points and ‘increasing interoperability’, cannot be a correct talking point. If the word ‘interoperability’ must be used, put it in a proper non-war fighting context, like joint search and rescue operations. Let me write a sample text (without the use of the word ‘interoperability’):
“The TNI AL conducts regular PASSEXes with foreign navies to enhance mutual understanding and strengthen friendship with other navies. These professional interactions at sea has enabled the TNI AL to keep our ties warm with our <insert country> navy counterparts, especially amidst the ongoing COVID-19 situation.”​

Q2: How can ASEAN want support from the EU (with regards to our concerns over the South China Sea)?
  • Thanks to misguided Indonesia, ASEAN is working to improve ties with the Russian military, which is engaging in a hybrid war at the border of the EU.
  • ASEAN must be aware of Russia’s military advance on the border with Ukraine and their role in supporting the move of vulnerable migrants from Belarus (against ASEAN partners in the EU) — as part of the Russian hybrid warfare playbook.
Q3: How can ASEAN under Indonesia be so tone deaf on Japanese and Korean security concerns with regard to Russian overflight of their military aircraft over their respective ADIZs?
  • In Dec 2020, 4 Chinese and 15 Russian aircraft penetrated the Korean Air Defense Identification Zone — this intrusion appears to represent an upgrade of Sino-Russian military cooperation, while probing a lack of defense coordination between Japan and South Korea.
Q4: How can Indonesia pretend not know that the Russians are working with the Chinese to threaten other NE Asian countries?
  • I know that Indonesia is deeply concerned with Chinese military flights over yours and Malaysian EEZs. There will come a day where ASEAN will want other states, like Japan and South Korea or supra-national organisations like the EU, to be of help/support with regards to PLAAF and PLA(N)AF overflights in the South China Sea that threaten Indonesia.
  • TNI AL needs increased interoperability with the JMSDF, the RAN and even the ROKN (but not with the Russian Navy). Alternatively, the TNI AL needs to host mini-lateral exercises, like the recent one held between the navies of India, Thailand and Singapore.
  • Indonesia’s decision to increase military-to-military cooperation with Russia, through an ADMM Plus exercise, is not wise. There is no upside only downside risks to be managed.
6. Indonesian leaders like to take pains to note that ASEAN has options other than the US (like the Russians). This tactic has historically been an effective one, but is unlikely to work going forward with China’s rise. There is going to be blow back for helping the Russians move with swagger in ASEAN, with absolute disregard for Japanese concerns.

7. AT TIMES like this, it becomes clear that ASEAN is ineffective because the military and civilian leadership in Indonesia have got their priorities wrong, when they are supposed to set the tone for other ASEAN member states at the ADMM Plus level. Saying NO to Russia (in 2021), is just as important as saying, yes.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
TIMES like this, it becomes clear that ASEAN is ineffective because the military and civilian leadership in Indonesia have got their priorities wrong, when they are supposed to set the tone for other ASEAN member states at the ADMM Plus level. Saying NO to Russia (in 2021), is just as important as saying, yes.

I agree on the concern on ASEAN has to take more stance on Geopolitical position personally. However Politically it's different matter. Indonesia is not the only one in ASEAN that want to keep Russia engaged. Put the article on Vietnam Navy ship already arrived for the ASEAN - Russia Naval exercise.

Vietnam also actively encourage Russian engagement with ASEAN. Talking with some friends that work with Foreign ministry few years ago, shown within ASEAN Vietnam is one active voice on putting Russia still within ASEAN engagement. Not saying Indonesia are not the one of voices to keep Russia engaged, but only saying Indonesia is not the only one.

As where the stance on defense actually are, for me the tones will be set not only in military exercises, but more importantly where the Military Procurement and defense industry Partnership sources come from.


For one thing Frenchie shown more and more willingness to become Indonesia big defense supplier. Also the procurement and industry co-op recently also either with Italian and UK. If Indonesia stubbornly keep raising defense engagement with Russia, and it will continue on Su-35 and other Russian Amphibious armour for Marines, regardless on CAATSA. However that's not the case. Most of Russian defense procurement (especially the latest contract) now put in hold, and big potential will be stop if lobby with US on getting advance assets got through.

Politically I sense going with French is one 'middle ground' since some of those faction that doesn't want to be seen Indonesia become too deep within US camp, now switch toward French. That's why I said in Indonesia AF Thread, eventough F-16V is the ideal choice for TNI-AU, but however Political choices with Rafale seems going to be taken looking on the momentum.

Within Indonesia, eventough there's significant Political faction that want to increase engagement with Russia, but the ones that want to increase engagement with US and West is actually much larger. However within Indonesia Political tradition, in the end some balance must be achieved.

This kind of engagement with Russia in Naval exercise is that kind of balance. However if we compared with US-Indonesian recent Garuda Shield exercise, this ASEAN-Russian naval is relatively pale in comparison. Shown the level of engagement between TNI and US Armed Forces is far larger then Russia. This's the subtlety of diplomacy tone are.

This exercise is between ASEAN and Russian Navy. I don't have latest information yet on whose asside Indonesia and Vietnam that will send ships in this exercise. However anyone else that going to participate, will done so not due Indonesia setting the tone, but due to their own balancing act. Despite Indonesia influence with ASEAN, I don't think any members no matter who can independently set the tone by without some kind of consensus.

In the end getting the consensus is the ASEAN game, and so far the balancing act still have to be done. Whether the balance shift toward more US and West, I can see it already happen but done so gradually. Still diplomacy voices must see in my opinion on ASEAN case on subtle language.
 
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OPSSG

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Post 2 of 3: Geopolitical context of the 1st ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise

Within Indonesia, eventough there's significant Political faction that want to increase engagement with Russia, but the ones that want to increase engagement with US and West is actually much larger. However within Indonesia Political tradition, in the end some balance must be achieved.
8. Agreed. 23 Nov 2021, marked the 19th Indonesia-U.S. Security Dialogue, with the next meeting to be held in Jakarta. I look forward to substantive outputs in 2022 and 2023 — with Team Biden trying to use carrots to lobby hard for US interests (by working with Indonesian decision makers). Compared to Russia, US access to decision makers is not to be underestimated.

9. Under the theme “Together We Can,” the TNI AD hosted a thousand U.S. Army troops from the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg North Carolina, and the 25th Infantry Division out of Schofield Barracks Hawaii, for Exercise Garuda Shield in Aug 2021.

10. The two-week Garuda Shield joint-exercise continues to solidify the U.S. – Indonesia Major Defense Partnership and advances cooperation in support of a free and open Indo-Pacific region. "The most powerful thing that’s happening at Garuda Shield is relationships," said Col. Neal Mayo, commander of Task Force Warrior, 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division.

This kind of engagement with Russia in Naval exercise is that kind of balance. However if we compared with US-Indonesian recent Garuda Shield exercise, this ASEAN-Russian naval is relatively pale in comparison. Shown the level of engagement between TNI and US Armed Forces is far larger then Russia. This's the subtlety of diplomacy tone are.

This exercise is between ASEAN and Russian Navy. I don't have latest information yet on whose asside Indonesia and Vietnam that will send ships in this exercise. However anyone else that going to participate, will done so not due Indonesia setting the tone, but due to their own balancing act. Despite Indonesia influence with ASEAN, I don't think any members no matter who can independently set the tone by without some kind of consensus.
11. Yes, given Indonesia’s desire to burn fishing boats of other ASEAN nations fishing in disputed EEZ waters and the ramming of TNI AL vessels by Vietnamese vessels, the ASEAN consensus is every country acting for itself. This is a failure of leadership and vision but that is to be expected given Indonesian domestic politics.

12. In 1993, Russia and Vietnam signed a contract to ensure the continued use of SIGINT facilities in Cam Ranh Bay. Russia wanted to continue using the electronic eavesdropping base to monitor Chinese communications in the South China Sea. The facility at Cam Ranh Bay is well placed to monitor communications around Hainan Island. It is important that we should keep in mind that Russia under Putin decided to abandon Cam Ranh Bay between 2001 —2004, never to return to Vietnam.

13. At this stage, communist Vietnam is eager for any engagement, as a counter weight to both China and the U.S. — given the Russia is the main arms supplier for Vietnam’s dated military.
(a) The Vietnamese Navy is taking tiny ineffective steps in its modernisation efforts as it cannot buy top-of-the-line Western weapons. Vietnam’s 4 Gepard-class frigates (Project 1166.1) and 6 Kilo class submarines are hopelessly over-matched in the South China Sea, should shooting erupt over EEZ claims viz a viz China.​
(b) For some strange reason, some fanboys in Vietnam and Indonesia hold the mistaken impression that Russian weapons will work against the PLA(N), when the Chinese have access to the same Russian tech. Vietnam has no choice but to learn from the Russians, whose CONOPS is out-dated and ineffective against the rapidly modernising PLA(N). In the Indo-Pacific, only the JMSDF and the USN are a match the Chinese efforts in naval power projection.​

In the end getting the consensus is the ASEAN game, and so far the balancing act still have to be done. Whether the balance shift toward more US and West, I can see it already happen but done so gradually. Still diplomacy voices must see in my opinion on ASEAN case on subtle language.
14. IMO, China’s geopolitical heft (in the military and economic spheres) will tilt any future attempt at balancing by Indonesia. China’s belt & road is a powerful tool to whip Indonesia (if your political elites miscalculate).

15. I am not sure simple balancing is a viable strategy from 2031 onwards, for Indonesia or for ASEAN. This is why, in recent years, Singapore has invested a stronger defence relationship with the Australians, the Americans, the French and the Germans and also in hard power with a range of new network centric weapon platforms and military tech from these countries that include: 4 Type 218SGs, 8 LMVs, 8 Seahawks, 16 H225Ms, 10 CH-47Fs, up to 12 F-35Bs and the up-coming 5,000+ ton MRCV (to replace the Victory class).
(a) Platform investments ensure that the RSN has 12 first line fighting frigates and air power, to enable the SAF to project power into islands nearby. The 130 metre long MRCVs, under development by ST Marine (as the Vanguard 130 design), is much more interesting, to me, than the JMMS. Each of the 12 Singapore frigates will significantly extend the power projection range of SAF helicopters, with the H225Ms able to fly 700km before refuelling.​
(b) The central role of helicopters, UAVs and USVs in distributed naval war fighting CONOPS of the Singapore Navy will be facilitated through Q-LARS 2.0 (a motion stabilised & heave compensated handling system for LAR for RHIBs and USVs) and ASIST. Q-LARS 2.0 will be used on the MRCV, to enable seamless launch and recovery of USVs and RHIBs at rough sea states. And ASIST will be used in the Formidable class/MRCVs to recover helicopters up to sea state 5. There is a growing range of tiny sensor pods that are COTS, for UAVs and helicopters that are superbly capable for their weight & size.​
(c) To augment and extend the Singapore Navy’s organic over-the horizon targeting capability (via Scaneagle UAVs on the soon to be retired Victory class corvettes), ST also makes its own Veloce 60 UAV that has a 5 m wingspan and a MTOW of up to 70 kg, while flying at payload-dependent speeds of between 50-70 kt and staying aloft for 12-14 hours.​
(d) At some point in the future, 7SIB will conduct an exercise in which H225Ms and CH-47Fs will move a vertical launch & recovery UAV system, and it’s associated equipment from a ship to shore to demonstrate an over the horizon targeting ability for the Singapore Army’s HIMARS system.​
 
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Vivendi

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Japan and Vietnam on Tuesday signed a cybersecurity agreement as the two Asian nations rapidly step up their military ties amid concerns over China’s growing assertiveness.

Japan’s Defense Minister Kishi Nobuo told reporters that the cyberspace agreement aimed to address a “strong sense of urgency” over activities in the Indo-Pacific region that challenge the existing international order, indicating China without identifying any country by name.

Kishi said talks with his Vietnamese counterpart, Phan Van Giang, had taken “defense cooperation between the two countries to a new level.”
Tuesday’s deal comes only two months after the two countries struck a deal allowing Japan to provide defense equipment and technology to Vietnam. Details of the transfer of specific equipment, possibly naval vessels, are still being discussed.

Vietnam is the 11th nation with which Japan has signed a defense equipment and technology transfer deal as Tokyo seeks to support its own struggling defense industry. Japan is also looking to expand military cooperation beyond its longtime ally the U.S., and has signed similar agreements with Britain, Australia, the Philippines, and Indonesia.
Japan, Vietnam Look to Cyber Defense Against China – The Diplomat

It will be interesting to see how this develops, and what these agreements actually entails. Also interesting that Japan now has agreements with the Philippines and Indonesia, in addition to Vietnam. What is the relationship between Japan and the other ASEAN countries in terms of defense?
 

tonnyc

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11. Yes, given Indonesia’s desire to burn fishing boats of other ASEAN nations fishing in disputed EEZ waters and the ramming of TNI AL vessels by Vietnamese vessels, the ASEAN consensus is every country acting for itself. This is a failure of leadership and vision but that is to be expected given Indonesian domestic politics.
Two things. First, unless you are giving credence to China's Nine Dash Line and Vietnam's similarly expansive though unnamed claim, I have no idea what you are talking about.

The boundaries of Indonesia's Exclusive Economic Zone is settled. In the Celebes Sea with Philippines it was settled by treaty in 2014. With Malaysia other than around Ambalat, there is no dispute. With Papua New Guinea there is no dispute. Same thing with Australia. Not aware of any dispute with Timor Leste. Or India either. With Singapore I believe it's also settled by treaty.

In South China Sea our EEZ is clearly delineated by drawing the line from Natuna Islands. Malaysia, whose territorial sea and EEZ is affected by this, does not dispute this because the Natuna island chain does interpose themselves between the Peninsula and Borneo.

China's claim over the SCS is similar to Vietnam's claim in that both assert "historical ownership from times immemorial" and the southern border of that claim is based in drawing lines around rocks incapable of supporting an independent population rather than inhabited islands. If we look at the map, we should see that Vietnam is far enough away that claims of overlapping EEZ doesn't make sense unless we buy into the same kind of arguments China use.

Second, we don't burn the captured boats. What we did, once the boats had been legally confiscated by the court, was scuttle them with carefully placed explosives. This created a new place for coral and other marine life. This policy was done because it was discovered that previously, confiscated boats tend to find their way back to the original owner via cutouts. The boats would be auctioned, and a middleman would buy it, and then "sell" it back to the original owner. If we raise the minimum price so this practice is not profitable, then no one buys it (the boats are usually not in good condition, so no one really wants it) and it sits in the harbour costing money every day from docking fees and upkeep.

The policy has also been rescinded by the new fisheries minister. So now the Vietnamese owners can buy it back or pay the fine and go back to fishing ASAP. If we are that bloodthirsty, surely we would have continued the policy.

And yes, Vietnamese Coast Guard's behaviour does weaken ASEAN unity. But the responsibility lies on Vietnam, not Indonesia. People think that Vietnam's claim is just the Paracel Islands or maybe the Spratleys, but Vietnam is claiming almost the entire SCS just like China. It's only a little bit smaller than China's Nine Dash Line. Moreover, of late the Vietnamese fishermen are often discovered in the territorial waters (12 nm northward of the islands or sometimes they went south past the islands). So it's not even mostly in the disputed SCS anymore. We get it, the Chinese fishermen are pushing the Vietnamese fishermen off their traditional fishing grounds, and thus they went south where they only have to push against Indonesian traditional fishermen and the weak Indonesian coast guard and navy. But being pushed away by China does not grant them fishing rights in Indonesia. If they want to, buy a license and obey our fishing laws.
 
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OPSSG

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Post 3 of 3: Geopolitical context of the 1st ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise
The policy has also been rescinded by the new fisheries minister. So now the Vietnamese owners can buy it back or pay the fine and go back to fishing ASAP. If we are that bloodthirsty, surely we would have continued the policy.
16. Your expansion on my prior post is detailed and accurate. Really appreciate your insight and thank you for updating me on the new Indonesian fisheries policy.

And yes, Vietnamese Coast Guard's behaviour does weaken ASEAN unity. But the responsibility lies on Vietnam, not Indonesia. People think that Vietnam's claim is just the Paracel Islands or maybe the Spratleys, but Vietnam is claiming almost the entire SCS just like China. It's only a little bit smaller than China's Nine Dash Line. Moreover, of late the Vietnamese fishermen are often discovered in the territorial waters (12 nm northward of the islands or sometimes they went south past the islands). So it's not even mostly in the disputed SCS anymore. We get it, the Chinese fishermen are pushing the Vietnamese fishermen off their traditional fishing grounds, and thus they went south where they only have to push against Indonesian traditional fishermen and the weak Indonesian coast guard and navy. But being pushed away by China does not grant them fishing rights in Indonesia. If they want to, buy a license and obey our fishing laws.
17. Like you, I agree that Vietnam’s coast guard’s decision to ram a fellow ASEAN member’s vessel is a significant the problem. Hopefully, ASEAN members will score less own goals going forward — but given some of the background ASEAN issues THAT outsiders cannot understand, I suspect scoring further own goals is almost inevitable.

18. As I see it, the bigger problem is the strange the concerns of Indonesian fanboys (who want more Russian weapons and closer ties with the Russian Navy). These fanboys are lacking in a proper understanding how military capability is raised, trained and sustained.
(a) Both the TNI AU and TNI AL need significant help from advanced air forces and navies, in particular:​
(i) the TNI AU need to train and sustain a fighter squadron dedicated to flying SEAD and anti-ship mission profiles, with OCA support from another squadron;​
(ii) the TNI AL need to get much better at ASW (which is a true team sport), as that requires coordination between MPAs, ASW helos and towed arrays from frigates to detect and localise Chinese submarines that are growing quieter by year; and​
(iii) the TNI AL task groups need better tactics for surface warfare. Instead of fighting as individual ships (which is the current standard), Indonesian frigates need to form-up as a distributed task group that is linked via an encrypted network, with MPAs feeding info to the task group.​
(b) To my mind, the Russians may make interesting weapons but they are not an advanced navy, nor are they experts at SEAD. The Russians are not an air force that can meet Indonesia’s threat matrix, consequently, they are of little value as training partners for Indonesia.​

19. The upside of news of Prabowo’s trips to solicit for weapons, is the long queue of European and American weapon suppliers keen to do business with a G20 country and the leader of ASEAN. Indonesia has weapons procurement choices that Vietnam can only dream of.

20. The Vietnamese are not going to leap frog into new capabilities, whereas, Indonesia can do so, if domestic politics don’t intervene. The value of buying American fighters is the rich array of targeting pods and specialist missiles, like HARM, to fit the threat matrix. The Russians just don’t have the resources to develop cutting edge tech that can defeat the Chinese Navy’s destroyers formed up as a task group. Consequently, they are of little value as a weapons supplier for Indonesia.

21. Unlike Singapore, who has real hard power, Indonesia needs to grow its hard power for more options against constant bullying by China. Growing closer to Russia does nothing to help the TNI AL & TNI AU.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Just put this link on old article from 1979. Despite the talk on Indonesia increase military presence during Jokowi era, but actually Natuna being militerise already happen since Soeharto era due potential dispute on Vietnam claim to Natuna waters even Natuna itself.

Ranai AB was build as military AB able to handle Fighters wing from that era. The first large combine TNI/ABRI excercise was done in Natuna by Soeharto basicaly to demostrate Vietnam that Indonesia have capabilities for large military inter islands projection toward Natuna. Something that in 80's only Indonesia in SEA that capable toward that large scale inter islands military projection. One of A4 squadron being station in Pontianak AB in West Kalimantan (now equip by Hawk 200), with regular presence of A4 air wing in Ranai AB.


However after Vietnam become fellow members in ASEAN there's continues serious effort to settle EEZ dispute. Especially after both Indonesia and Vietnam realise that settling their dispute, also help to solidified position against China nine dash line claim.

Indonesia position actualy is simple; Indonesia is inheritor of Dutch East Indies. Thus any EEZ base on whatever islands that belong to Dutch East Indies. Asside East Timor episode, Indonesia actualy only claim any border dispute base on whatever islands that Dutch East Indies claim. Even Soekarno during "Konfrontasi" actualy never claim North Borneo teritory, he just want North Borneo rules by 'Revolutionary' minded anti collonial factions. Early on during East Timor episode, Soeharto's regime thinking was not to absorb East Timor, but to support any factions but the left wing Fretelin. Only after Fretelin getting stronger and clearly in winning side, the thinking changes.

18. As I see it, the bigger problem is the strange the concerns of Indonesian fanboys (who want more Russian weapons and closer ties with the Russian Navy). These fanboys are lacking in a proper understanding how military capability is raised, trained and sustained.

(a) Both the TNI AU and TNI AL need significant help from advanced air forces and navies, in particular:​
…​
The so call Nationalist factions that support Russian defense procurement is also related to Rosoboron Agents here. So their support to Russian or Chinese assets also related to business interest. Not surprising though, afterall Indonesian Political circles always interconnected to business interests. Thus the fan boys supporters on Russian assets, I always watch their political thinking mostly related to that factions.

However asside Flankers and some Russian armoured in Marines, practically TNI brass not showing much interest on Russian assets. The Russian Kilo submarine projects being getting prolong negotiation, just to be drop for DSME 1400. I do also suspect that Su-35 negotiation being prolong not only to incompetence of previous term MinDef, but also some in MinDef it self that hoping to stop Su-35 process.


This's comment on new TNI Chief Andika Perkasa (previous Army Chief), already create some hot discussion on Indonesian forums, online sites, even between various fan boys factions. He's comment that his talk with Prabowo's on getting realistics defense assets toward available budget. This make many speculate especially for Fighters that he support assets that shown commonality with current assets. Thus speculation on Andika try to convince prabowo's on US assets, as this already have support ecosystem within TNI operation.

Andika himself in my opinion is very close to US. He's like SBY is US miltary educated, he even has some property in US (he's father in law is ex Inteligence Chief turn business man). The large scale Garuda Shield exercise with US Army is part on to his effort. Some speculate US Lobby has a hand on persuading Jokowi to put him as TNI Chief.

Thus US lobby game on Indonesian defense procurement and cooperation is far from over, and by look on it just getting stronger.
 
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OPSSG

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Wasting of time by ADMM

1. As I understand it, wars are not linear in terms of their trajectory. They're based on a continuous fiction or interaction, of opposite forces (to use Clausewitzian phrase), between ASEAN forces and the enemy, and then policies and strategies shift over time. The PLA(N) and the Chinese Coast Guard may be forecasting an easy victory over certain weaker navies (like the Philippines or Malaysia); but they neglect view of the the larger, or more capable navies operating over the horizon in the South China Sea, if shooting starts.

2. IMHO, ASEAN neglected what was necessary to consolidate gains with the setting up of ADMM and it’s early inaugural exercises in 2013. This makes ASEAN much less relevant to addressing regional security concerns going forward — compared to its relevance in the 1980s — in the wake of Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia in late Dec 1978 to remove Pol Pot. Gratitude is not forthcoming from Cambodia, where hostility towards the Vietnamese remains ubiquitous. It is an enmity born of conflicts between ancient emperors and kings, of lost territory.

(a) This misguided focus on the unimportant creates waste, in not just money but time. Time is a commodity we don’t have enough of to get stronger and to prepare for the next conflict — this is why, I don’t like time wasting with ADMM trying to work with the Russians.​
(b) But time wasting is nothing compared to the harm ASEAN can do to itself by having Cambodia assume the role of ASEAN chairman for the next year. As we all know, Cambodia is in China’s pocket.​

3. ONE day, in future, Indonesia political leaders will wake up to the idea, "Well, heck we do have to do more for ASEAN." At that time, they will realise that America, over the years, actually provided a whole bunch of military assistance, with a great deal of enthusiasm and no finesse. Likewise China with its Belt & Road has dumped money into some developing countries beyond their absorptive capacity. China would be not the first great power to use finance to help build global influence, power and leverage. Just look at the way the formation the EIC was deeply intertwined with the creation and expansion of the British empire.

Admiral Panteleyev
KD Lekiu 30
KDB Daruttaqwa 09
Kraburi 457
KRI RE Martadinata 331
Kyan Sittha F12
Ly Thai To 012
RSS Vigour 92
4. Thanks for the list. By the standards of the larger ADMM Plus exercises, the ships and platforms mobilised for the 2021 exercise with Russia is modest.
(a) In the May 2016 Maritime Security and Counter-Terrorism Exercise in Brunei, Singapore sent a Endurance-class LPD, a frigate, a civil resource ship, 4 Super Puma and 2 Chinook helicopters, a Heron 1 UAV, a CBRE team and medical assets.​
(b) In the Jun 2013 ADMM-Plus HADR/Military Medicine Exercise, Singapore sent an Endurance class LPD, 4 Super Puma helicopters as well as military medical and combat engineer assets.​

5. For the 2018 ASEAN-China exercise and the 2019 ASEAN-US exercise, Singapore Navy sent a frigate both times. This time, they sent a 32 year old corvette. This way, solidarity is shown within ASEAN. Not to over-rate the importance of Russia — a limited participation — shows respect for Indonesia but a distinct lack of enthusiasm for Russia.
 
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STURM

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List of Warships that will participate in the first-ever ASEAN-Russia Naval Exercise around North Sumatra.
Thanks for the list. It's more poltical than anything else, ASEAN's desire to be mates with everyone [even if it doesn't lead to actual tangible benefits] and Russia's desire to be seen as a Asia Pacific player, albeit a minor one.

Over the years Russian ships have performed PASSEXs with regional navies. Neither side under any illusions that it actually leads to any tangible benefits, merely diplomacy at play.
 

STURM

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Even Soekarno during "Konfrontasi" actualy never claim North Borneo teritory, he just want North Borneo rules by 'Revolutionary' minded anti collonial factions.
His prextext for "Dwikora" or "Ganyang Malaysia" was that it was an inperialist plan by Britan to maintain control over the country and that it was against the wishes of the people of North Borneo and Sarawak [untrue].

It's an interesting conflict worthy of further research. Only a handful of books have appeared. It involved a Indonesian para drop on Malaysia, cross border raids by the SAS which renained classfied well into the 1970's [Benny ,Moerdini came close to being killed], AURI Mustangs, Mitchells and Badgers flying over North Borneo, AURI Badgers coming close to being intercepted by RAF Javelins, ALRI SSKs off the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia, terrorist attacks on Singapore, RMN ships intercepting ships on multiple occasions in the Melaka Straits, RMAF planes on a leaflet drop over Bintan Island, Malaysian army arty firing on Sebatik Island, raids by Chinese leftists on Malaysian territory [Malaysia and Indonesia later conducted joint ops against these former Indonesian supported fighters], a Malaysian army platoon being badly mauled in a surprise Indonesia attack in North Borneo, a Singaporean unit being ambushed in Johore, infiltration attempts in Sabah by Indonesian frogmen, an intel campaign, plans by the RAF and RAAF to hit Sumatra and Java, etc. Some aspects of the conflict remains classified in Britain.

Something else interesting is that following an Indonesian request, Malaysia returned a small stock of captured AKs the Indonesians wanted for the East Timor invasion. This was told to me by Ken Conboy who has done a number of excellent books on the Indonesian military. Not related to Konfrontasi per see but the movie "Year Of Living Dangerously" accurately depicts the political climate in Indonesia during that period.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Nice reading article from CSIS. I'm not always in agreement with CSIS think tank thinking. However I do agree that Cambodia leadership will provide challenge in creating common ground against China interest.

On the other hand ASEAN it self never been in same voice regarding China interest or Myanmar. It's quite surprising and bit of achievement for ASEAN other 9 members can decide to 'hold' Tatmadaw representative in involvement within ASEAN.

However what after that ? An University friend of mine in foreign ministry once told me, the problem with Tatmadaw is it's an institution. It's easier dealing with a regime based on a dictactorship (like Soekarno's and Soeharto's regime), then dealing with an Institutional regime like Tatmadaw. Moreover it's the only institution in Myanmar that have effective solidified thinking.

Myanmar Civilian opposition basically only following Aung San Suu Kyi as symbol. They're now only have one common ground agenda to oppose Tatmadaw. However no single agenda on how to implement that. That's why the talk on armed insurgency only big with outside media, not in Myanmar it self.

My assessments on this I confess coming from talking with some people that have business in Myanmar before. However in that kind of situation, I don't know how effective ASEAN any move will be. Will freezing Myanmar membership will be effective ? Will that only cornering the only effective institution (no matter how brutal they're lately) ?

We already see how dismantling an effective institution can be a problem on any authoritarian nation. We see that in Middle East. Personally I just don't see good progress in Myanmar can be achieved by ASEAN with sidelining the only effective institution in Myanmar currently.

Add:

Well as predicted Aung San Suu Kyi herself already begin facimg sentence from multiple allegations facing her. Whether this is part of Tatmadaw effort to sideline her politically, or part for pushing the civilians with Tatmadaw prefer "compromise", is yet to be developed.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Secretary Blinken in Jakarta as part of ASEAN tour to reinstate Biden US reengagement with ASEAN. I don't really agree with the commentators comments that Trump disengage with ASEAN or Asia in the matter. Trump doing it differently and more erratically in my opinion can be call more appropriate.


And yes, Blinken plane 'coincidently' arrive close with Putin's Security Head plane. However I don't buy either both US and Russia does not now this as the one commentator put it.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
the problem with Tatmadaw is it's an institution. It's easier dealing with a regime based on a dictactorship (like Soekarno's and Soeharto's regime), then dealing with an Institutional regime like Tatmadaw.
Why is it harder dealing with a dictatorial regime than an institutional one? Can't a dictatorial regime also in some ways be a dictatorial regime?

Also what is your personel definition of an insitution? Not to get off topic but given the position it holds in society, the long historical connection and other factors, in your opinion can the TNI be called an institution?

We see that in Middle East.
As in the case with the Iraqi Baath party which despite its various flaws was the one able to hold the country together. We saw that in the former Yugoslsvia where Tito did the same.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Why is it harder dealing with a dictatorial regime than an institutional one? Can't a dictatorial regime also in some ways be a dictatorial regime?

Also what is your personel definition of an insitution? Not to get off topic but given the position it holds in society, the long historical connection and other factors, in your opinion can the TNI be called an institution?
Ive the feeling that you read and answered in a rush.
TNI, Tatmadaw, USCG, RNLAF are all institutions.

And yes its easier to deal with a dictator/political party than a complete armed force.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Ive the feeling that you read and answered in a rush.
No I didn't actually. I asked the question I did based on this - "An University friend of mine in foreign ministry once told me, the problem with Tatmadaw is it's an institution. It's easier dealing with a regime based on a dictactorship (like Soekarno's and Soeharto's regime), then dealing with an Institutional regime".

I may have not understood or misunderstood what he meant - hence the question - but I didn't read it in a rush. I also asked what his personal definition of an institution was, wasn't suggesting he was incorrect in his comments.
 
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