Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?


  • Total voters
    95

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
adsH said:
buhto was currupt and had an ego the size of a continent he set the Path of self destruction for Pakistan by not allowing the SEC UN to decide the fate of Bangladesh he made foward looking private banks and institution into backward looking public firms, intern turning them into currupt money draining whole. his entire family has been drain on teh pakistani society, they are filled with corruption and deceit. His daughte EX PM owns mansions and state houses here in england while pakistanis struggle to feed there family.
Bhutto was born with Golden spoon in his mouth. Than his father married him to an older woman than him who was richer than Bhutto him self. But he never tried to take over her property n always said tht the property e owns belongs to his 1st wife & he only uses his own property. He never had any children for his 1st wife. So when he died 1/4th of his propert wnt to Benazir Bhutto. Bhutto's 1st wife was always respected by her step children so when Bhutto family came back to Pak in 1980's she gave away her property to them. Than benazir married Asif Zardari who him self was quite rich. Now with 1/4th of the Bhutto's property, 1/4th of her step mother's property n whole of her Husband's property if Benazir cant afford a mension than I dnt knw who can. Anyways I myself dont like Benzir & her husband but keep it light on ZAB.
Now Bhutto was a national Fighter not a Fighter Jet. We opted for Bhutto in the past lets give advice to PAF to opt for which jet on this thread. GF is already getting irritated. If u wana discuss it make a thread at Political Discussions

Aussie Digger said:
So what would the anti- F-16 crowd around here have to say if the US reversed their position and offered to sell Pakistan as many F-16's (of whatever Block) and basically whatever advanced weapons that they desired?
Well we would be more than happy to see tht happen. But we would still prefer Gripens or some other Jets so would also be disappoinnted. Its not like we hate F-16s. We r not anti F-16 lobby here. Its just we dnt prefer them any longer.
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
First of, this isn't bhutto thread, 2nd he is dead so lets discuss his legacy in politics forum! :nono
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I think new build F-16's (Block 52+ or Block 60) plus an MLU to the same standards for your current fleet would suit your airforce nicely and be a helluva lot cheaper than other new build jets.

Other Countries (Poland for instance) have recently opted for new build F-16 Block 52's over jets such as Gripen, so obviously on at least a value for money basis the F-16 is quite viable, compared to new 4th gen jets. Capability wise it's still very viable too. PAF has it's own support facilities for their current fleet, which could no doubt be easily expanded.

If the US were willing to sell new build F-16's to Pakistan they'd definitely provide support, initially at least which could assist in the development of PAF's own support capabilities and you wouldn't really suffer so much in any future sanction situations.

However, new F-16's would be nice, but an AMRAAM capability is what PAF should be really pushing for from the US, either supplied directly or a similar capability supplied through a 3rd party (such as, France, Saudi Arabia or somewhere). To me that is the single greatest force element missing from the Pakistan defence force's orbat, a legitimate, high level BVR air to air missile capability. That capability is even more pressing than a new gen fighter from my POV. Cheers.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Aussie Digger said:
To me that is the single greatest force element missing from the Pakistan defence force's orbat, a legitimate, high level BVR air to air missile capability. That capability is even more pressing than a new gen fighter from my POV. Cheers.
Wholeheartedly agree, it's the weaps that are critical. There are other platforms that can launch. It's cheaper to rail and port the proper missile system than to get a series of new platforms.
 

adsH

New Member
from my point of view F-16 is the best option armed With Aim-120. I'm sure the F-16 are under negotiations and would go through after the Bush reelection. I ve seen first hand what PAF has spent on F-16 (well ive seen what civilians see when you look at one of there massive Bases) they have A massive training Facility for the F-16 it takes 20 min to drive past the dam Base from one end to the other, i am certain they would try for the F-16 till there last breath. if they wern't considering the F-16 then they would of gone for the grippens but i'm sure they're trying to persuade the US for the F-16, i mean thats almost 5 bn Dollar worth of business then the Support costs. its huge money for anyone.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Hmmm !!! For PAF, F-16 is an itch that only USA can scratch.

well if PAF has to buy them, they should go for block 52+ or Block60. May be both would be better. Training Jets r not needed we ve got them, they only ve to be upgraded along with others jets. They must be BVR missile capable. F-16s r still quite strong Jets, they can battle SU-30 quite easily with Wester equipments specialy from USA.

There r two chances now for PAF for getting F-16. 1st to get LockHeed Martin get involved in this political situation. They r coming in IDEAS2k4 n will be visiting PAF F-16s n the overhauling facility. 2nd is that Bush be relected. 1st is quite easy as it will automaticaly take place with LockHeed deligation arriving in Pakistan for IDEAS2k5, 2nd depends on the ppl of US. Bush wont win in NY hope he pulls off other states. If Bush has made any promisses or deal with Mushi on F-16s than InshAllah he will give us F-16s b4 elections. But even for tht I dnt c any movement by Republicans to satisfy the Congress on this matter so far. And Bush wont be there for long. IF he wins than 4 more yrs, if he loses than 2 weeks n tht even to pack his bags. So even if we get F-16s in between either of both periods we might again end up back to the current situation with this or next democratic victory. So this deal must contain a security on its contract by both US govt & LookHeed-Martin.
 

P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

well if we get these f-16's (which i think is unlikely) then how many should the PAF get?
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

P.A.F said:
well if we get these f-16's (which i think is unlikely) then how many should the PAF get?
40 new F-16s now. Upgrade of 35+ already in inventory. This makes it to 75+ F-16s. PAF must take the number up to 100. I think over all of 100 F-16s will do the job. So 40 now & 20 later. More than 100 would be nice, very nice but we should try n buy other jets also. PAF cant be turned into only F-16 dependent AirForce. Remember even if US gives us F-16s they will bar its supply & its componenets supply to PAF in case of War with India.

Hey GF n adsH. Do u think tht PAF could have provided F-16s to China not for them to study the basics n develop J-10 but rather study its components n develope similar cloned components so PAF could some how manage to make its own components than rather askin US for them?
 

P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

SABRE i think 100+ F-16's is being a bit hopefull :D: . if we do get some from the US brand new then where likely to get less then 50. :smokingc:. i think gripens would do the job for now :)
 

adsH

New Member
i think its unlikely that PAF gave one of its Active F-16, its possible they-allowed Chinese engineers to look at the Grounded fleet to analyze the AC and offer alternative chinese Parts that could act as substitutes to the US made parts. but i doubt it was PAF who gave Chinese the Specs of F-16 i think it was the Lavi Israel program that gave the chinese an understanding of the F-16. F-16 is not important anymore to the US the New Raptors are the front end fighters. F-16 are old and would be phased out as this decade passes. however it is a very capable platform.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

P.A.F said:
SABRE i think 100+ F-16's is being a bit hopefull :D: . if we do get some from the US brand new then where likely to get less then 50. :smokingc:. i think gripens would do the job for now :)
100+ is over all number of jets m saying PAF should have. Right now m saying PAF should buy atleast 40+. Read my post again P.A.F little buddy.

adsH said:
i think its unlikely that PAF gave one of its Active F-16, its possible they-allowed Chinese engineers to look at the Grounded fleet to analyze the AC and offer alternative chinese Parts that could act as substitutes to the US made parts. but i doubt it was PAF who gave Chinese the Specs of F-16 i think it was the Lavi Israel program that gave the chinese an understanding of the F-16. F-16 is not important anymore to the US the New Raptors are the front end fighters. F-16 are old and would be phased out as this decade passes. however it is a very capable platform.
But still do u think PAF might have approached Chinese to make substitue components after Chinese learned abt F-16 core structure from Israeli Lavi projetc.
 

P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

oh sorry i misunderstood your post SABRE. anyway i don't think the PAF would be able to get it's hands one new f-16 now. gripen and french+chinese aircraft are the high flyers. ;)
 

XEROX

New Member
Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s

Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s
14 Sep 2004 14:17:14 GMT
Source: Reuters


By Amir Zia

KARACHI, Sept 14 (Reuters) - The United States has given an indication it may sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, but Islamabad is looking at other options as well for the purchase of high technology aircraft, its air force chief said on Tuesday.


Pakistan has been unable to buy high technology aircraft for the last two decades because of sanctions, the chief of the Pakistan Air Force, Air Marshal Kaleem Sadat, told reporters.

The press briefing took place on the first day of an international defence exhibition that formally opened in Karachi under tight security.

Exhibitors and delegates from more than 50 nations, including the United States, Britain, Russia, China and France, are participating under a security blanket because of fears of terror attacks from al Qaeda and local Islamic militant supporters.


"The Western countries were denying us access to their markets and their products," Sadat said. But after Pakistan joined the U.S.-led war on terror after the September 11, 2001 attacks, this attitude was changing, he added.

"Now there is a change in their attitude. They have indicated that they are ready to give us F-16s. The work (on such a sale) has stopped because of the (U.S.) elections.


"There is a possibility that we will get more F-16s," he said. "This is not a rumour, it is from the American government."

Sadat said the United States had been generous in giving billions of dollars in economic aid and writing off debt.

"But Pakistani public opinion is still against Americans because ... they think the Americans want to keep them weak," he said. He added that he had been urging Americans to change this perception.


Pakistan bought 40 F-16s in the early 1980s when the country was serving as a base for the U.S.-backed resistance against the former Soviet Union's occupation of Afghanistan.

But another order for the purchase of 70 F-16s in the late 1980s failed to materialise because the United States imposed sanctions on the country for its clandestine nuclear programme.


After almost a decade Pakistan got its money back, having paid for the planes in advance.

SANCTIONS HIT PAKISTAN AIR FORCE


Sadat said Pakistan's air force had suffered because of the sanctions. The disparity between Pakistan's and India's air forces had widened as a result of Pakistan's inability to buy frontline fighter aircraft, he said.

"You do not need mathematics to tell that."

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence in 1947, and came close to a fourth conflict in 2002.


While the nuclear-armed neighbours have embarked on a tentative peace process, Pakistan complains of India's growing superiority in the sphere of conventional weapons.

Besides F-16s, Pakistan has been looking to equip its air force with Swedish Grippen and Chinese F-10s, Sadat said.


Sadat explained that JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, co-produced by Pakistan and China, were expected to be inducted into the air force some time in 2006. "The JF-17 Thunder is aimed to replace Mirage 3 and 5, A-5 and F-7 aircrafts," he said. He said the medium-technology aircraft matched the Mirage in performance, but its avionics and weapons were better.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ISL113456.htm

Instresting, i wonder what block they are offering pakistan
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
Probably C/D Block 40 or 50 but I don't expect 52+ to be offered or just mebbe.
I'll let you guys know something as soon as I hear something about this from my sources.
 

adsH

New Member
Re: Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s

"There is a possibility that we will get more F-16s," he said. "This is not a rumour, it is from the American government."
I guess GF was right about this too there were and are deals going onn which are not made public, this deal must be rock solid thats probably the reason why the ACM is blabbering it out. but i think they still would go form a new generation Front line fighter. or they may insist on building part of the Avionics at home.
 

ashoaib

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Good News Guys Finally US become willing to sell F-16s to Pakistan said by Air cheif marshal Kaleem Sadat today. Officially, decision will be declared after elections. Is it worthwhile to have F-16s alomg with JF-17 because both are same line of ACs. Is it not worthwile to have fourth gen ACs like EF-2000, Rafale or Gripen?
 

Dream Guy

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

ashoaib said:
Good News Guys Finally US become willing to sell F-16s to Pakistan said by Air cheif marshal Kaleem Sadat today. Officially, decision will be declared after elections. Is it worthwhile to have F-16s alomg with JF-17 because both are same line of ACs. Is it not worthwile to have fourth gen ACs like EF-2000, Rafale or Gripen?
New Generation F-16s are not the in same class of jf-17. They are the true 4th generation fighters. So it will be worthwhile having jf-17s with f-16s together. But the problems are sanctions.
 

Dream Guy

New Member
Re: Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s

adsH said:
"There is a possibility that we will get more F-16s," he said. "This is not a rumour, it is from the American government."
I guess GF was right about this too there were and are deals going onn which are not made public, this deal must be rock solid thats probably the reason why the ACM is blabbering it out. but i think they still would go form a new generation Front line fighter. or they may insist on building part of the Avionics at home.
i hope it will be right but we should be very carefull as we all knows thse americans.
 

mysterious

New Member
Re: Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s

I think that if the F-16 deal does go through, then Pakistan should ask some level of ToT just as Lockheed was offering to India. Now Pakistan should let them know that we have other options too so if you want to sell us your plane, make the deal a bit enticing and worth commiting to!! :smokingc:
 

Wajahat

New Member
Re: Pakistan's air chief says U.S. may sell it F-16s

mysterious said:
I think that if the F-16 deal does go through, then Pakistan should ask some level of ToT just as Lockheed was offering to India. Now Pakistan should let them know that we have other options too so if you want to sell us your plane, make the deal a bit enticing and worth commiting to!! :smokingc:
I fail to understand why people can't stop dreamming. If and that is a big if US goes ahead to release F-16s , these will be the ones that were built already for us or they will be from there reserves i.e old model A and B's and that is not bad at all in the current situation.
And the numbers we are talking about is 18 not 70 or like that (just read that in DAWN).
In the end these planes will be little more than a cosmetic move by US to gain support with the masses in Pakistan that it is standing by with its ally. The move will have no effect on the balance of air power in the sub continent (as oppsed to when we got our 1st batch of F-16s when it really created an impact in the indo pak scenrio). But when you concider PAFs existing state even 18 early model F-16s will make a big difference (enough to raise one more Squadran, concider now we have only 2!)
 
Top