Deltared075
New Member
Help design two major AC? Which two? I only know one only that JF-17 with financial support. what else? A5? F7?adsH said:
Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
The other one is "J-10" itself!!!! Dont you do any research or anything?
The other one is "J-10" itself!!!! Dont you do any research or anything?
Its actualy ignorance because of the jealousy. So its both. If China doesnt sale J-10 to Pakistan than whome would it sell to. Not only J-10 would be availabale to Pakistan but also its technology so Pakistan can produce some of J-10 at home with western technology on board which will make most of the Indian Jets some what inferior to PAF J-10. With West tech on board J-10 IAF Su-27 Flankers are just another Jet & with either of EF-2000 & Rafael in PAF, IAF SU-30 are just another Jet. So he just cant take it.adsH said:
F-16's denial & India's first move to buy new front line jets have given PAF chance to evaluate the best there is in Jets & Indians cant take it. They feel fool to have made the first move.
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Anyways I have herd that it takes about 1 minute for Mirage2000-5 to turn back & thats why PAF is not buying them. I read it in an artical "F-16 story" cant find it now, if I do i ll post it here but in meanwhile can some give reference to this "one minuter turn" of Mirage 2k5.
Uve got a point there. But how can u claim that pakistan would produce J-10s when it refused a production line for K-8s? And in anycase, 40 J-10s (the first batch) wont make much of a difference in the air war. Its a complex SAM system and a large EW complement that will or a combinatin of factors. So basically the sukhois and all wont be just another plane. Aircraft today are more of a system rather than airplanes. And no matter wat u think the PAF wont buy the Ef-2000 and rafale but wud beg for the gripen and take the J10 wid it if it comes or buy it alone if it doesnt.SABRE said:
PS maneuvarability isnt exactly that important in air warfare anymore, electronics is. So it cant be claimed that this hindered the M-2000 deal,.
PS nice nic Sabre. Mine is a quotation of General Niazi at east pakistan when asked why he didnt go on fighting in bangladesh and instead surrenedered. Long live the few heros who still walk on earth.
Hmm. Nice questions. I dont know if K-8 were refused production in Pakistan, I dint realy knw until now when u said this. I dont know may be K-8 were completely Chinese technology thts y they dint give it to us. China might just give the J-10 tech to Pak to increase its production, besides PAF wont use J-10 with Chinese technology. They will have to use western Tech & modify the Jet in away that it best suit PAF. So maybe PAF will ask for the technology. besides it is said that PAF helped in J-10, so this might just be enough for Pak to get the J-10 tech from China. J-10 can be prepared here with JF-17. Both can be manufactured in a way tht they support each other. We will have a J-10 & J-17 sqdn combination. Anyways so far PAF only has to aquire J-10 not the tech.corsair7772 said:
Anyways what makes u think PAF wont get the technology?
you say maneuvarability isnt exacty tht importent, electronics are. Well when two jets both with superior electronic system come across each than
its evened out & what you have left to depend on is the maneuvarability. I dont say ur theory is wrong but it aint right either. Both count.
Why do u think PAF wont buy Rafeal or EF-2000? Any relevent reason.
PS. Do u mean nick or signature. If u mean signature than u r third person to say it. Thanks anyways. I guess we r more interested in what was going on in 1970's than now.
:mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Count me in Sabre. Am the fourth person now to compliment ur signature! Man, those are some tough words!! :smokingc:
Count me in Sabre. Am the fourth person now to compliment ur signature! Man, those are some tough words!! :smokingc:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
K-8 is some what expensive for a trainer as u knw. Its purchase cost is allot & to produce a Jet which has higher cost of production & currently has no international demand is a risk. So its good that Pakistan is not producing K-8. J-10 would be other story. Already many countries are eyeing JF-17. Zimbabwe, Bangladesh few more... & 3rd world countries with even better economy might also buy J-10 & if Pak makes it good they might just purchase it from us, even China might ask for couple of western technology equiped J-10 from us.
The way I see it, Refusal to produce K-8 in Pak, is purely based on business risk factor. Besides Pak would like to sale its Mushak in more quantity than K-8.
: thanks. Think I gotta ask webi to put a poll for it Not only those are tough words, the man walked out on UN Security Council Session at the moment. No one has ever done that. Those were the leaders, leaders we lost.
Oh!!! In that case I dont see Pakistan refusing J-10 technology. Its a fighter Jet not trainer. So PAF Would like to make it the way they want. China would be a cheap mean to quire already made J-10s but it would be faster if Pakistan aquired the technology. Besides who would say no to a 4th Gen Fighter Jet technology. Pakistan would love to see its name in the list of countries which produce world class jets.adsH said:
K-8 is some what expensive for a trainer as u knw. Its purchase cost is allot & to produce a Jet which has higher cost of production & currently has no international demand is a risk. So its good that Pakistan is not producing K-8. J-10 would be other story. Already many countries are eyeing JF-17. Zimbabwe, Bangladesh few more... & 3rd world countries with even better economy might also buy J-10 & if Pak makes it good they might just purchase it from us, even China might ask for couple of western technology equiped J-10 from us.
The way I see it, Refusal to produce K-8 in Pak, is purely based on business risk factor. Besides Pak would like to sale its Mushak in more quantity than K-8.
mysterious said:
: thanks. Think I gotta ask webi to put a poll for it Not only those are tough words, the man walked out on UN Security Council Session at the moment. No one has ever done that. Those were the leaders, leaders we lost.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
If thats the case, then Pak Karma is at a knock down construction level. That is not the same as a complete build capability. It's typically what is assigned to countries that are permitted to build under license.
adsH said:
If thats the case, then Pak Karma is at a knock down construction level. That is not the same as a complete build capability. It's typically what is assigned to countries that are permitted to build under license.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
I think the only full working facility in Pakistan is of Mushaks right now & the second one is under construction for JF-17.
As I said before, may be Pak doesnt want to take risk with high cost of production of K-8 & wants rather China to do it.
Thats what I have been thinking. May be it is.gf0012-aust said:
I think the only full working facility in Pakistan is of Mushaks right now & the second one is under construction for JF-17.
As I said before, may be Pak doesnt want to take risk with high cost of production of K-8 & wants rather China to do it.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
China has a larger internal market, it has a permanent customer to sell its products to, Pakistan is new in the Business and the only solid customer of Pakistani AC is PAF, and paf usually doesn't have that much funds to procure any AC in large quantities, so Producing the shell and then building the whole thing is time time consuming and waste of limited resources that could be diverted toward research on Avionics and stress testing and other various mods.
Its not feasible for PAF to produce all the Chinese AC at home since its cheaper to just buy them from China and China is a relatively cheap and reliable source of AC and there Airframes.
China has a larger internal market, it has a permanent customer to sell its products to, Pakistan is new in the Business and the only solid customer of Pakistani AC is PAF, and paf usually doesn't have that much funds to procure any AC in large quantities, so Producing the shell and then building the whole thing is time time consuming and waste of limited resources that could be diverted toward research on Avionics and stress testing and other various mods.
Its not feasible for PAF to produce all the Chinese AC at home since its cheaper to just buy them from China and China is a relatively cheap and reliable source of AC and there Airframes.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Thats what I have been saying in my previous post. Pakistan is avoiding the risk caused by K-8's high cost of Producation. It currently has very low international demand. So Pak wont likewaisting time & money on the product which no one wants to buy yet.adsH said:
Sorry to say but from what i've read ZAB was an arrogant drunk
the UN is important because Pakistan has obvviously signed some agreements which thay are subject too - if they didnt want that then they should never have signed etc
Anyway I dont consider ZAB that great sorry but thats my opinion
AS for Pakistans Aircraft requirements I think they should firstly concentrate on the JF17 to the extent that the can eventually modify them in so 10 years time - the ability to make advance version with composite materials would be important for Pakistans Independence
they will also need to add a few suplimentary aircraft also but i very much doubt that the eurofighter/typhoon is idea - it cost the british tax pay a tremendous amount and i doubt it worth the cost to PAF also
A few more F16 (E?) would hold us in good stead
Well u ve free will. U can like him or hate him but the truth is he was the 1st elected PM of Pakistan & the 2nd man to lead the nation as a whole after Jinnah. If he was drinking it was his personal life, but many have also seen his other side, the religious one. Before he excepted 1973 constitution he took Quran in his hands n started to weep. When he went to Mecca some one said "bhutto what a sinner like u is doing here" he grabed the Kaba's Ghilaf n started to weep when King Faisal grabed him from his sholder n said "Congrats u will be martyred, we believe that the one who grabs the ghilaf & weeps will be award great honor by Allah & what could be greater honor than being a Martyer" than King Faisal grabed the Ghilaf & started to weep & turned back & said to Bhutto "Congrates now I ll be a Martyer too". He was a brave man so brave when they were taking time to hang him he got irritated & shouted "Get on with it ! Get on with it!"---non of us here have these gutts the Bhutto had.corzair said:
(Dont delete it webii, Let this stay here. Many ppl liked my signature those who ask y I ve put this signature,let them know y I have. Besides this signature thing started here on this thread-----ppl if u have to discuss Bhutto come to political discussions)----------------------------------------------------------------
Another new comer with F-16 on his mind. Buddy stay arround this forum u will start to get irritated by this word F-16. Ur mind will be changed.corzair said:
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
So what would the anti- F-16 crowd around here have to say if the US reversed their position and offered to sell Pakistan as many F-16's (of whatever Block) and basically whatever advanced weapons that they desired?
So what would the anti- F-16 crowd around here have to say if the US reversed their position and offered to sell Pakistan as many F-16's (of whatever Block) and basically whatever advanced weapons that they desired?
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Sabre my friend; Bhutto was a national hero! Respect him as much as you do bro!! The way I understand his life's end was that he was almost succeeding in creating an Islamic bloc which the "West" did not like and so it put up Zia-ul-Haq to try n somehow get Bhutto out of the way before he accomplishes the biggest thing ever! Bhutto was truly a patriot and a person who (if he had lived) would've changed Pakistan's future for the better. :smokingc:
Sabre my friend; Bhutto was a national hero! Respect him as much as you do bro!! The way I understand his life's end was that he was almost succeeding in creating an Islamic bloc which the "West" did not like and so it put up Zia-ul-Haq to try n somehow get Bhutto out of the way before he accomplishes the biggest thing ever! Bhutto was truly a patriot and a person who (if he had lived) would've changed Pakistan's future for the better. :smokingc:
buhto was currupt and had an ego the size of a continent he set the Path of self destruction for Pakistan by not allowing the SEC UN to decide the fate of Bangladesh he made foward looking private banks and institution into backward looking public firms, intern turning them into currupt money draining whole. his entire family has been drain on teh pakistani society, they are filled with corruption and deceit. His daughte EX PM owns mansions and state houses here in england while pakistanis struggle to feed there family.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Note the topic title:
Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Note the topic title:
Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?