Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[SABRE]

Love you'r signature Sabre!And love that man!
In actuality, the inservice guys are more in favour of the Typhoon than the Rafale.(both lead the pack in terms of general prefference over other types in the opinion of my PAF acquaintances)

Thanks Umair, I too love my signature ! & love that man!

I would buy EF-2000 over Rafeal but I m giving preference to Rafeal cause its purchase is risk free.

We have empty inventory of 60 to 80 Jets. Why not buy both of them. 40 of each (& go poor for 10 years) ---- M just kidding.

Any one would do, wouldnt it?

 

[ashoaib]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Good idea 40 40 is good. But we need special fighter AC like EF-2000 more than a fighter+bomber. I like your signature too SABRE coz I like this Man too. I had studied about him a lot and finally came to know that he is the real father of Pak Nukes but I dont like his controversal role in dividing Pakistan.

Sorry of the track!!!

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Good idea 40 40 is good. But we need special fighter AC like EF-2000 more than a fighter+bomber.
Sorry of the track!!!

your right the JF-17 is being labeled as the fighter bomber, PAFs requirements are for a high-tech interceptor (tip of the dagger), with Special capabilities like the EF2000 has, to carry out strategic Missions where i guess Swing role capability is preferable.

the 40 40 theory is flawed PAF would never be able to maintain the logistical requirements for both these AC at any one time, since they would lack the resources both in personnel and Monetary funds to keep these two distinctly different AC up and running.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Paks did purchase Rose mirages from Australia, but i doubt if the aussies wanna sell any more planes to paks, especially after they were hit by terrorists, these pple are fragile!

So are you suggesting that Pakistan was involved in the terrorist bombings in Bali??

So far your comments haven't demonstrated much substance and intellectual diligence. Convince me that you aren't

1) a kid
2) a troll
3) feeble in your knowledge of Australian-Pakistani relations.

I wait with baited breath.

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Somebody owes 'uncle' Gary an explanation!

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Good idea 40 40 is good. But we need special fighter AC like EF-2000 more than a fighter+bomber.
Sorry of the track!!!

your right the JF-17 is being labeled as the fighter bomber, PAFs requirements are for a high-tech interceptor (tip of the dagger), with Special capabilities like the EF2000 has, to carry out strategic Missions where i guess Swing role capability is preferable.

the 40 40 theory is flawed PAF would never be able to maintain the logistical requirements for both these AC at any one time, since they would lack the resources both in personnel and Monetary funds to keep these two distinctly different AC up and running.

Your right abt maintaining logistical requirements at one time. But still dont you think buying both will give PAF an edge over its rivals not only in South Asia but in whole of Asaia, even over China. If not 40 40 than 60-20. But gripens might still be on the table & if PAF is considering two 4th gen jets & we get Gripens than we will be trying for Rafael not EF-2000.

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

there is LM F-16 logistical needs to support too(4th gen after MLU), those Birds are going to get an update and would continue to sevice for the forceable future, so there is allot of funds that are going out of the PAF's Account. the JF-17 would be the only cheap serviceable AC in PAF inventory, since PAF would produce its own spares and maintain them selves.

the EF2000 can do everything the Rafael can do and i would even say it can do more then Rafael, so Rafael is not the best choice.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Euro fighter all the way!!!!!!!!.
let me tell you my dream. in the next few year i want PAF to that the gripens euro-fighter and JF-17. just imagine that line-up. . can't see that happenning for a long time thought.

 

[lalith prasad]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

ef2000 costs 75million per aircraft 60 aircrafts will cost around 4.5 billion dollars plus support systems and weapons will cost another 500 million dollars besides there are too many vendors involved in it and you will have to get all their permissions on the other hand you can get a rafale at 60million dollars per aircraft so you can acquire more aircrafts for the same amount,you can also try to use this deal as a means of leverage to prevent india from acq1uiring the m2000-5.besides you already have experience and infrastructure in place for operating the french aircraft the same cannot be said about the ef2000.of late there have been reports regarding software problems and problems with the 23mm gun on the ef2000 fighter besides there will be a big ruckus about selling this aicraft in a potentially conflict zone remember the amount of problem british govt had to face while selling hawks to india(after all a training aircraft with limited combat potential)ef 2000 has lesser weapons load,combat radius,lower operational envelope than the rafale(6500kgs,1650kms,60000feet vs 9500kgs,1850kms70000 feet) also rafale is a deadly naval strike aircraft .you also cannot expext the eu to give you the latest avionics and software for the ef2000 something which the french can do for the rafale. www.airforce-technology.com

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

ef2000 costs 75million per aircraft 60 aircrafts will cost around 4.5 billion dollars plus support systems and weapons will cost another 500 million dollars besides there are too many vendors involved in it and you will have to get all their permissions on the other hand you can get a rafale at 60million dollars per aircraft

Both eurofighter and Rafale cost more then 80 million per piece. European countries want sales and this is why they do not state the actual price of the aircraft. Fighter-planes.com claims that unit cost Rafale costs only 50 million USD which doesnt makes sence.

The US expects its F/A-18C to get more sales then any european semi-stealth fighter. I dont think France will refuse to sell Rafales to any country when it is competing with Amearcan F-53, F/A-18 Hornet and 4 nation Eurofighter.

 

[Roger Smith]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

ef2000 costs 75million per aircraft 60 aircrafts will cost around 4.5 billion dollars plus support systems and weapons will cost another 500 million dollars besides there are too many vendors involved in it and you will have to get all their permissions on the other hand you can get a rafale at 60million dollars per aircraft

Both eurofighter and Rafale cost more then 80 million per piece. European countries want sales and this is why they do not state the actual price of the aircraft. Fighter-planes.com claims that unit cost Rafale costs only 50 million USD which doesnt makes sence.

The US expects its F/A-18C to get more sales then any european semi-stealth fighter. I dont think France will refuse to sell Rafales to any country when it is competing with Amearcan F-53, F/A-18 Hornet and 4 nation Eurofighter.

EF-2000 at the rate and cost of $5 billion to equipped several squadron in PAF is out of reach for Pakistan and for that matter most of underdeveloped countries air forces.

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

EF-2000 at the rate and cost of $5 billion to equipped several squadron in PAF is out of reach for Pakistan and for that matter most of underdeveloped countries air forces.

Su-30MKI will not be a big threat to PAF after the induction of JF-17 since JF-17 has superior BVR capability. Plus, Su-30 will be made by HAL which is famous of making coffins like MiG-21s, 23s and Jaguars. :

The JF-17s can fulfil PAFs F-16s needs. So 20 Rafales are enough for now.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

this is what i think the PAF should aim for with 3 - 3.5 billion in hand.

F-16 (upgraded by lockeed) 40
jf-17 150
Mirage III/5 50
f-7 150
gripen 60
eurofighter 20

can't see that happenning soon thought

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

EF-2000 at the rate and cost of $5 billion to equipped several squadron in PAF is out of reach for Pakistan and for that matter most of underdeveloped countries air forces.

Su-30MKI will not be a big threat to PAF after the induction of JF-17 since JF-17 has superior BVR capability. Plus, Su-30 will be made by HAL which is famous of making coffins like MiG-21s, 23s and Jaguars. :

The JF-17s can fulfil PAFs F-16s needs. So 20 Rafales are enough for now.

First off Sukhois BVR capability is more Advance since the SU30mki has superior radar and fire control systems, the BVR is proven in Battle, HAL is just fine nothing special but it can make quality aircrafts the Russians and the Israelis are helping out so its not too bad. about the JF-17 being better i doubt that, but if you put a good pilot in the JF-17 it would hard for any one to Defeat the JF-17,
the SUkhoi and other Russian platforms have a higher maintenance requirement they are not built or designed to the same standard of a western fighter.

the Price of each EF2000 is about 60 mill US$ so its not that bad since PAF only wants 40 of them, the tricky part is not the initial purchase price but the maintenance cost, since the Aircraft is made out of exotic materials it should have higher cost when the hull has to be repaired.


40 EF2000 and 40 F-16 would make a formidable front-line.

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

about the JF-17 being better i doubt that, but if you put a good pilot in the JF-17 it would hard for any one to Defeat the JF-17,

Read my post again dude. I said "The JF-17 has superior BVR capability". The Su-30MKI uses R-77 which is being upgraded by Russians themselves.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i'm affraid i can't agree with you there oqaab. indias su-30MKI's have israili avionics in it making it a very advanced aircraft. the JF-17 is a good fighter to be put up against the su-30 but it sure doesn't have better bvr capibilities. the best i can do is use h-2 and h-4 missiles along side the chinese one whereas indias su-30MKI's fire israili & russian bvr weapons which are far supieior to the h-2 and h-4. not sure about the SD-10 or something like that.

 

[Roger Smith]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

EF-2000 at the rate and cost of $5 billion to equipped several squadron in PAF is out of reach for Pakistan and for that matter most of underdeveloped countries air forces.

Su-30MKI will not be a big threat to PAF after the induction of JF-17 since JF-17 has superior BVR capability. Plus, Su-30 will be made by HAL which is famous of making coffins like MiG-21s, 23s and Jaguars. :

The JF-17s can fulfil PAFs F-16s needs. So 20 Rafales are enough for now.

You are day dreaming!

If the Su-30MKI are no match to JF-17 in some factors, than the Chinese should hand over its Su-27 to PAF and maintain JF-17/FC-1 for itself. :

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

You are day dreaming!

If the Su-30MKI are no match to JF-17 in some factors, than the Chinese should hand over its Su-27 to PAF and maintain JF-17/FC-1 for itself. :

Listen, I m only comparing the BVR capability of the two aircrafts. JF-17 have advanced missile, the SD-10. On the other hand, everybody using R-77 missile is worried about its capabilities. Even Ur India will replace its R-77 with Astra.

i'm affraid i can't agree with you there oqaab. indias su-30MKI's have israili avionics in it making it a very advanced aircraft. the JF-17 is a good fighter to be put up against the su-30 but it sure doesn't have better bvr capibilities. the best i can do is use h-2 and h-4 missiles along side the chinese one whereas indias su-30MKI's fire israili & russian bvr weapons which are far supieior to the h-2 and h-4. not sure about the SD-10 or something like that.

Do some research before U reply. If U are not sure about SD-10s capabilities then go and check Sinodefence or other chinese websites.

As Ive said before, I m NOT comparing the electionic systems and other capabilities of Su-30 with JF-17. Only BVR.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

cool it down a bit bro. i know you talking about bvr capibilities but before making comments like that THINK. you go and find me a source saying that the jf-17's bvr capibilities r superior to that of the su-30MKI :?:

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

cool it down a bit bro. i know you talking about bvr capibilities but before making comments like that THINK. you go and find me a source saying that the jf-17's bvr capibilities r superior to that of the su-30MKI :?:

Dont be lazy dude. Go to Sinodefence > Airforce > Weapons and click SD-10. You will fine SD-10 more capable(improved seeker) then R-77 which is carried by Su-30.