Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[corsair7772]

fieldmarshel, u claim that the article is hogwash but you havent managed to produce a single link against it. The grifo really isnt the hottest thing in town exactly why the Italians are willing to let us produce it. :roll Ive read that it doesnt even have multiple target engagment capability.

These are some links on the Grifo-7.

http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/om/200103/om61.htm

http://www.acig.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?forum=6&start=162&topic=179

www.pac.org.pk/KARF/griffo.htm

www.pakdef.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-3373

Will get more soon.

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Sorry, but for me, more than three different AC platforms being in service with an airforce is a bit non-sensical.

 

[VICTORA1]

Re: Restoring the PAFs Qualitative Edge

Zubair-Ansari,
Good buddy, PAF is already overwhelmed and the purchase of 50 mirages 3's and 5's is like that little dutch boy trying to plug the holes in the dikes with his fingers to stop the flooding. Our situation is like that of a chameleon---which puffs itself up and changes colors so that the enemy thinks that it is deadlier than it actually is.

 

[corsair7772]

babriet.tripod.com/airforce/stat/statgrifo.htm

www.aeronautics.ru/fc1a

N heres da rest.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Restoring the PAFs Qualitative Edge

if pakistan keeps it's current jets up to date and inducts 60 Gripens & AWAC + 150 JF-17's by 2007-8 then we could put up a good fight with the indians and will probably(75%) beat then to the fight. otherwise were just gonna get run over.
nice article zubair ansari .

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Sorry, but for me, more than three different AC platforms being in service with an airforce is a bit non-sensical.

Ok than for u its:

1) Gripen
2) F-16
3) JF-17

4) J-10 (if we dont get gripens)
5) Mirage 2000-9 (to compansate F-16s if v dnt get them)

Anyways I always 4 get to ask when J-10 are coming out of production lines and into the Chinese inventory??

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

in my point of view in 2010 PAF should look like this:
JF-17 150
Gripens 60 including a AWAC's to make them more effective.
f-16 32
mirage III/5 130
f-7 150

the last two & JF-17 should be used for attack and the first 3 should be used for air combat. they should all be upgraded to better avionics to keep the quality advantages. ooh and one more thing. they should all be linked to the AWAC's
what do u think?

 

[lalith prasad]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i doubt if you will get mirage2000's because today in star news they have said that india is going to acquire 125 mirages from france and the scorpene subs.that will be nearly 6billion dollars worth deal for france over the next 10 years.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

well congratulations to the indians. anyway can you discuss that in another thread. this ones to discuss which aircraft is most suited to PAF.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

and as for u thinking that PAF r not going to get mirage 2000's. well i think you right. i don't think PAF is intrested in that AC anymore. .

 

[corsair7772]

The PAF tends to maintain only four aircraft at a time people! (except in the 90s when we were replacing ur F-6s)

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

...... first you need an inverse mould, then you need the Composite/carbon type material( which is pre prepped for its role, tailor made) and then a long winded process of cutting out Composite material and placing it on the mould evenly. then various other process take place before the recipe is complete the whole Mould is then placed in a high pressure Heating oven. the right temperature is required for the right kind of material.

Fundamentally that is the process involved. The difficulty for laying carbon fibre is the size of the panels that must be created. The larger the panel, the more complex and delicate the accuracy of the laying and curing process becomes.

It is a frighteningly expensive process on large scale panels

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

...... first you need an inverse mould, then you need the Composite/carbon type material( which is pre prepped for its role, tailor made) and then a long winded process of cutting out Composite material and placing it on the mould evenly. then various other process take place before the recipe is complete the whole Mould is then placed in a high pressure Heating oven. the right temperature is required for the right kind of material.

Fundamentally that is the process involved. The difficulty for laying carbon fibre is the size of the panels that must be created. The larger the panel, the more complex and delicate the accuracy of the laying and curing process becomes.

It is a frighteningly expensive process on large scale panels

that is exactly what i am trying to explain to people here, Building a UAV out of composite material and build in a Jet is completly differnt. GF so technically Modular pannels of smaller sizes would be a better idea since they would be less complex to build and cheaper to replace.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

that is exactly what i am trying to explain to people here, Building a UAV out of composite material and build in a Jet is completly differnt. GF so technically Modular pannels of smaller sizes would be a better idea since they would be less complex to build and cheaper to replace.

Yes. smaller construction would be better from the perspective that it would allow an "introduction" to the issues of dealing with complex shapes and load bearing forces on critical components.

I had to look at some carbon fibre and conformal panels for some F1 racing cars a few years ago. The base plate (which is about the size of table tennis table in area was over 1 million Euro. to "buy". The curing processes could only be done in a few places in the UK - and was out of the technology capability of a number of other EU states who had sophisticated technologies - but not the facilities required.

 

[Salman78]

I think Pakistan should wait for a few more years before acquiring any modern fighter plane. It whould build its economy and save some money. Next door there is the new congress govt. Dosnt matter what india is doing. we shouldnt be following them. we r not going for a war with india anytime soon and it dosnt seem likely in the near future.

so lets say by 2009/2010 we should go for F-35 and upgrade our JF-17's and get some F-10's.

200 JF-17's (multirole)
150 F-35 (ground attack/multirole)
100 F-10 (purely air superiority)

This combination is realistic, not very expensive and easy to maintain/support as there wont be more then 3 types of front line planes. This should be PAF's 2015 vision. atleast thats what i'd suggest.

Eurofighter is having a lot of troubles, JAS-39, the swedes wont sell and Rafale has no export customor and very expensive. F-35 is not even in production but atleast 8 countries r part of this massive project. Spares would be easy to accuqire and lots of friendly countries to exercise with.

Lets see what our airforce chief's opt for.

 

[Salman78]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

An upgraded J-10
upcoming F-35
& JF-17

a potent mix of high and medium tech. cheap & affordable.

 

[Salman78]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Eurofighter is way too expensive and yet to prove itself. Its suffering from major software problems so i wouldnt advice PAF to aquire it.

If only SU serious was up for grabs

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Eurofighter is way too expensive and yet to prove itself. Its suffering from major software problems so i wouldnt advice PAF to aquire it.

If only SU serious was up for grabs

The latest iteration of the EF2000 is not plagued with software issues. Gen 1 was (and even then it wasn't as bad as some of the teething probs of the raphael)

 

[Salman78]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Eurofighter is way too expensive and yet to prove itself. Its suffering from major software problems so i wouldnt advice PAF to aquire it.

If only SU serious was up for grabs

The latest iteration of the EF2000 is not plagued with software issues. Gen 1 was (and even then it wasn't as bad as some of the teething probs of the raphael)

I wish i could type the whole news article here . Ill try to keep this as short as possible...


"in answer to a question in the house of commons on may 24, it was revealed that the ministryh of defence is considering passion on early production EF2000's intended for the RAF to export customers straight from the production line. MP Norman Lab asked the question and Armed forces minister Adama Ingram replied"

"The revelation came soon after a classifed release to service recommendations report by QinetiQ at Boscombe down was leaked to the UK media on May 24 highlightn "significant safety issues with the plane "

"extremely significant with regard to safety and unacceptable for release to service "

the article detaild the problems later on
there is no Gen 1 or 2... these first eurofighters are the tranche 1 and only in mid 2009 will the trance 3 be realsed and EF2000 will become a true multirole plane...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

there is no Gen 1 or 2... these first eurofighters are the tranche 1 and only in mid 2009 will the trance 3 be realsed and EF2000 will become a true multirole plane...

sigh.... internally within the project they are known as gen 1. PD is referred to Tranche levels.

BTW, I suggest you look at the minister involved, check for motive and then trawl up pilots reports.

Don't believe everything you read on the net or out of a political process.

Just out of curiosity, how many hours do you have on type?