What rank does the PAF stand at now?

[mukul]

shamayel Please ...... we are all discussing.... at what rank the PAF stands ..so before evaluating it rank one should judge about it strengths and weekness .....

so here my answer .....

Dassault Atlantique Maritime Patrol/ Anti-Submarine Plane

DESCRIPTION:
The Atlantic, or Atlantique in French, is a patrol aircraft designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) similar to the American P-3 Orion and the British Nimrod. The aircraft is also suitable to a number of other missions, including anti-ship, reconnaissance, air-sea rescue, fleet escort, transport, and mine warfare.

CREW: 2 pilots, 10 others

Atlantic : First production model; 87 built between 1964 and 1974
Atlantic ANG : Atlantic Nouvelle Generation, original designation for ATL 2
Atlantique ATL 2 : Improved ASW platform with strengthened airframe, new radar, ESM receiver, and magnetic anomaly detector (MAD); France ordered 42 to be built between 1989 and 2001
Atlantique ATL 3

Improved model, details unknown

ARMAMENT: Gun none
Stations 1 internal weapons bay, 4 external hardpoints, and 2 wingtip rails
Air-to-Air Missile up to four Matra Magic
Air-to-Surface Missile up to two AM39 Exocet or AS37 Martel, up to four Armat ARM
Bomb up to six conventional bombs
Other up to eight depth charges, up to eight torpedoes, various equipment pods, sonobouys

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/maritime/atlantique/


A plane which can carry so many armanents can be unarmed? You can't verify that wether plane is armed or not.

But for sure that plane can have air to air missiles and may be it have or not you can't verify.

You can't except Mirages and SU30 close to borders unarmed , so ya and what more in training excersies ? logic .....

that plane is not a innocent unarmed plane but it can hide destructive things under its belly..

 

[Red aRRow]

That data corresponds to the ATL 2 version. Pakistan has ATL1 version. As far as I know, the Atlantic ATL1 does not carry any weapons for air to air combat.

Armament: internal bay carries up to nine torpedoes at various kinds, or depth charges and other stores; four underwing pylons carry rockets or ASMs

http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/satlan.asp

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/atlantique.htm

Armament: 72 acoustic buoys and
9 U-Jagd-Torp. or
8 MU 90 or Mk 46 torpedoes or
4 Lenkwaffen AS12 or
2 Aerospatiale air-to-surface AM39 Exocet missiles

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/atlantique.htm


Another fact that you have ignored is that the plane was inside Pakistan at the time of being shot down and the wreckage was a number of kilometres inside Pakistan.
The video which the IAF released showed Indian soldiers hurriedly picking up the pieces and putting them in a helicopter. This just shows that it was a cowardly ambush and everything was set into place beforehand....the helicopter was waiting, both Mig-21s were "hot" and were ready to jump onto the unarmed plane and inside Pakistani territory and the helicopter flew in as soon as it fell down. Quite a lot of planning went into that ghastly incident.

Anyways the PAF has always had more kills compared with the opposition in any air combat it has ever engaged in, however nowadays because of old aircraft I wouldn't put it on my top 10 in the world list but as more aircraft are inducted it just might end up there.

 

[Sarmad]

Another fact that you have ignored is that the plane was inside Pakistan at the time of being shot down and the wreckage was a number of kilometres inside Pakistan.
The video which the IAF released showed Indian soldiers hurriedly picking up the pieces and putting them in a helicopter. This just shows that it was a cowardly ambush and everything was set into place beforehand....the helicopter was waiting, both Mig-21s were "hot" and were ready to jump onto the unarmed plane and inside Pakistani territory and the helicopter flew in as soon as it fell down. Quite a lot of planning went into that ghastly incident.

Anyways the PAF has always had more kills compared with the opposition in any air combat it has ever engaged in, however nowadays because of old aircraft I wouldn't put it on my top 10 in the world list but as more aircraft are inducted it just might end up there.

You are hundred percent correct. There was a planning behind this incident plus there were also some people who leaked out the information about the flight path of the P.N. Atlantiq. The indians had observed that the PN's Atlantic adopted that flight path as an alternate flight path if anything had to be changed. The Atlantiq was unarmed, since it was on a routine training mission. There is nothing unusal about it flying close to the borders since the aircraft of the Indian Navy and Airforce also used to fly close to the border, but on their side during these days.
Now the plan on the indian side was that two Mig-21s would be present near the border but at low level.When the Atlantiq would come near to the border within the air-to-air missle range of the Mig-21s, they would then suddenly gain height at full speed and would cross the border and would fire their AAMs on the P.N. Atlantiq. Two Migs with 4 air-to-air missles had only 15-20 sec. to pull up, fire and then make a run for at low level and high speed. When the Karachi radar picked the Migs, two Mirages of No.8 Squadron were diverted but at the time the Mirages were being directed the Migs had done their job. Indian helicopters were present near the border and as they had less time they were just able to pick a few pieces from the wreckage. The helicopters were using jamming techniques and they were detected only when they again soared in the air after picking the pieces of the wreckage. This act was planned and was performed up to the mark but it was aimed only to avenge the loss of the Indian Migs shot down over Kargil. It was a shamefull act by the Indian Airforce and there is nothing being proud on this shamefull act.
Pakistanis are no kids. If they really wanted to photograph indian targets or attack indian installations they had the Mirages for that and even if they decided to use the Atlantic they would surely would had prepared some defence for the plane since it is a sitting duck to SAMs and opposing fighters. No one is that much foolish to send this type of plane in an enemy country with no defence element and that also at normal height [ during offensive strikes in any air war, the aircraft has to sneak in the territory at low altitude with jammers and SEAD elements for its protection]. This prooves that the plane did not went near to the border for any hostile activity but it was on a routine training mission.
During nowadays while flying at Kamra AFB we spot indian aircraft flying near the border and it is very easy for us to go their and shoot them down using special tactics but we are not supposed to shoot them since they are not posing a threat to us and we are not at war.
If people want to see our interception capabilities then they must take a look in the news of June 2002 when an indian UAV was shot down inside Pakistan by the PAF defenders. This is a thing to be appreciated. We shot down an intruding aircraft which was posing a threat to us. We didnt shot down an unarmed indian aircraft in the indian territory without any reason because we are defenders of Pakistan and we like peace. We want to live and let live but if we are provoked then we can perform as the best airforce in the world and the proof of fighting with limited resources and producing great result is the tradition of the Pakistan Airforce.

 

[saraab]

No one is that much foolish to send this type of plane in an enemy country with no defence element and that also at normal height [ during offensive strikes in any air war, the aircraft has to sneak in the territory at low altitude with jammers and SEAD elements for its protection]. This prooves that the plane did not went near to the border for any hostile activity but it was on a routine training mission.

now that is something no one can deny

 

[mukul]

Another fact that you have ignored is that the plane was inside Pakistan at the time of being shot down and the wreckage was a number of kilometres inside Pakistan.
The video which the IAF released showed Indian soldiers hurriedly picking up the pieces and putting them in a helicopter. This just shows that it was a cowardly ambush and everything was set into place beforehand....the helicopter was waiting, both Mig-21s were "hot" and were ready to jump onto the unarmed plane and inside Pakistani territory and the helicopter flew in as soon as it fell down. Quite a lot of planning went into that ghastly incident.

Anyways the PAF has always had more kills compared with the opposition in any air combat it has ever engaged in, however nowadays because of old aircraft I wouldn't put it on my top 10 in the world list but as more aircraft are inducted it just might end up there.

Well when plane was shoot it was in high speed and becasue of high altitude ..... the wreakage can fall on either becasue of high speed plane might get cross over back to pak before crashing ..... i hope i don;t have to explain that fact.

Even though the plane wreagke was infact cloase to border and both side has aggreement that plane will not come within 10Km of IB.

So we can say that PAk break the rule ......that even prove that wreakge was infact very cloase of boader and within 10km of IB.

Well after plane went down PAk also send the search and rescue ... and if Indian Copter able to land in PAk land then this is alos shows pak inability ... frist to stop INdian MIG and then not able to stop to copter.

 

[umair]

Mukul u remind me of someone.Mods u thinking what I'm thinking? :roll

Mukul, you should post source of your info or else...

 

[mysterious]

Forget it guyz. Its a useless debate. Mukul knows it was a setup by IAF to shoot that Atlantique down but its ok we understand his feelings to defend his airforce on this matter. NOW keep to the topic! :cop

 

[The Watcher]

yeah they shot an unarmed plane wow indian pilots are so good.

 

[mysterious]

Hey Watcher! Didnt I just say keep to the topic? :mad

 

[Red aRRow]

I'm locking this topic. All points have been exhausted and now it is just turning into a flame war. Lets concentrate on other topics now. :cop

 

[umair]

Awww man! I had a few points to add to the debate :?
Anyhoo saving them for someother time .
Locked again.