I'd also caution when talking about total numbers............this MRAP requirement can go very much bigger irrespective of Iraq and Ghan requirements...........
US Army buys Bushmasters from Australia
- Thread starter RubiconNZ
- Start date
The only problem i found with the sunday programs report was that ross greenwood got to drive the Bushmaster around the scrub...lucky bastard
theres video of the story on the site, so bit more detail and showing off of the bushmaster, but you van't help but think something was missing from the story, maybe the second side to the story perhaps?
The US House of Representatives has agreed to spend $4.1 billion to replace the Humvee, the vehicle of choice of the United States military.
They have more than 200,000 Humvees — 17,000 of them in Iraq. Unfortunately for the American forces the Humvee's are highly vulnerable to roadside bombs or IED attack.
Australia's forces in Iraq, by contrast, are protected by one of the best Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles in the world: the Bushmaster, designed and made in Australia.
The Australian makers of the Bushmaster were excited by American overtures and the potential purchase of the vehicle. Unfortunately the quality of the machine, Australia's support of the US in Iraq even the free trade agreement between the two countries wasn't enough to persuade the American government to go forward with the sale. The manufacturers now fear the machine will be copied and produced by the US as an American design.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/feature_stories/article_2256.asp
theres video of the story on the site, so bit more detail and showing off of the bushmaster, but you van't help but think something was missing from the story, maybe the second side to the story perhaps?
The US House of Representatives has agreed to spend $4.1 billion to replace the Humvee, the vehicle of choice of the United States military.
They have more than 200,000 Humvees — 17,000 of them in Iraq. Unfortunately for the American forces the Humvee's are highly vulnerable to roadside bombs or IED attack.
Australia's forces in Iraq, by contrast, are protected by one of the best Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles in the world: the Bushmaster, designed and made in Australia.
The Australian makers of the Bushmaster were excited by American overtures and the potential purchase of the vehicle. Unfortunately the quality of the machine, Australia's support of the US in Iraq even the free trade agreement between the two countries wasn't enough to persuade the American government to go forward with the sale. The manufacturers now fear the machine will be copied and produced by the US as an American design.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/feature_stories/article_2256.asp
'Buy American' pressure may be a factor. Force Protection, the company responsible for the Cougar has developed the Cheetah as a Hummer replacement. The US Marine Corps has expressed interest and is moving to fast-track its evaluation.
Force Protection claims that the Cheetah can withstand a 15 pound/ 7 kg TNT blast anywhere under the vehicle, 30 pounds/ 13.65 kg under the wheels, or 50 pounds/ 22 kg if detonated 6.5 feet/ 2 meters to the side.
They have just opened a brand new plant increasing their production capacity to 400 per month (Cougar or Cheetah).
I seriously doubt the US would repalce the American built Hummer with an overseas offering - too much political fallout.
Force Protection claims that the Cheetah can withstand a 15 pound/ 7 kg TNT blast anywhere under the vehicle, 30 pounds/ 13.65 kg under the wheels, or 50 pounds/ 22 kg if detonated 6.5 feet/ 2 meters to the side.
They have just opened a brand new plant increasing their production capacity to 400 per month (Cougar or Cheetah).
I seriously doubt the US would repalce the American built Hummer with an overseas offering - too much political fallout.
I found that the only thing RIGHT with that Sunday report. Buy US is not holding back the Bushmaster. It certainly isn't holding back the Israeli's who are selling loads of vehicles into MRAP not to mention much of the armour going into Iraq to be stuck on US B Vehicles.
What is holding back Bushmaster on MRAP is being able to deliver. The Thales Australia/Oshkosh Truck Corporation plan is to build the armour monocoque hulls in Australia and ship them over to Oshkosh for fit out as IMVs. This makes sense as OTC has no armour production capability but plenty of truck production lines. If TA/OTC can make this work then MRAP will buy as many vehicles as they can deliver. They have eight vehicles produced at their own expense going through this process now to try and prove it as viable to MRAP.
Sunday didn't even mention MRAP, they implied that it was a choice of Bushmaster or Hummer for the US Army (not the USMC or other services, but then again they hadn't heard of MRAP), that Bushmaster was the product of Aussie ingenuity (based on a concept developed in Rhodesia, refined in South Africa and a vehicle designed in Ireland and developed by another Afrikaner– though at least he was in Australia) and that the Bushmaster was going to get ripped off by some US company and so on. Considering all they did is speak to the local MP, a TA GM (who of course said 'nothing') and go for a drive that tells you the level of research into the story they did. Another example of the death of Channel Nine.
The folowing link provides an update on the US MRAP prgramme, yet even more new designs are appearing on the radar screen, clealry it's now a very competative market with huge growth potential. Alas no mention of the Bushmaster however.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/more-mraps-1200-maxxpro-mpvs-from-navistar-03344/#more
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/more-mraps-1200-maxxpro-mpvs-from-navistar-03344/#more
As far as I was aware the Bushmaster is based on a Timoney Technology (Irish) design, the MP44.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/timoney/
They designed the hull and suspension.
Correct. AGRA wrote a decent article on the history of Bushmaster but I can't find it on the net
A little closer to home
I think the federal government might be buying a few more bushies if this comes to fruition!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22134638-31477,00.html
"
THE Australian Federal Police will form a 1200-strong paramilitary-style International Deployment Group to be equipped with the latest weaponry including armoured personnel carriers.
Tenders are now being called for the vehicles designed to provide maximum protection for the specialised police unit, which will be capable of being deployed alongside the army on peacekeeping operations......"
They might even have to refurbish a few more M113s as well.
rb
I think the federal government might be buying a few more bushies if this comes to fruition!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22134638-31477,00.html
"
THE Australian Federal Police will form a 1200-strong paramilitary-style International Deployment Group to be equipped with the latest weaponry including armoured personnel carriers.
Tenders are now being called for the vehicles designed to provide maximum protection for the specialised police unit, which will be capable of being deployed alongside the army on peacekeeping operations......"
They might even have to refurbish a few more M113s as well.
rb
Agreed. It would make sense for the new AFP paramilitary wing to standardise as far as possible with the ADF so far as vehicles and weapons are concerned. The Bushmaster seems a logical selection.
Cheers
It will be interesting to see how this new AFP force evolves, hopefully along the lines of GSG9 or HRT, however I'm sure the green machine will be watching closely to ensure their domestic CT role is not impacted upon, or money for gucci kit is not taken away to equip the new force.
The AFP already has all the components for this force including CT/offshore high risk teams with substantial training from SASR. I think they've got two units actually, one domestic and one offshore/overseas. I was mighty impressed by them when I served with them in the Solomons.
But I wouldn't think TAG-E and -W will find themselves under any pressure for the domestic role. This is a force intended for overseas ops like the Solomons and Timor. All the components already exist, too (with the exception of the armoured vehicles) - special ops, Protective Service and General Duties police. I think this will just be a grouping of these components under a unified command, with a wider scope and more funding, and probably intended to relieve pressure on the Army.
The Army isn't really suited for operations like the Solomons. As my old CSM there put it, the Army really only has two force options when push comes to shove - fists, and shoot to kill.
And with the Army so heavily stretched already it will be a great help. This proposed force could pretty much handle the Solomons by itself.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
TAG-E/W has domestic responsibility for a major terrorist action that is true, however the State Police Tactical Teams, bear primary responsibility. Personally I think the 2x TAG's are a waste of resources anyway. The likelyhood of Australia ever facing multiple simultaneous CT scenario's is a bit extreme and in any case the State Tactical Teams possess the capability to resolve them anyway.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Bushmasters are a possibility however Police Tactical Teams are required to equip according to the guidelines laid down by the NCTC (National Counter Terrorism Committee or as it was formerly known - SACPAV).
Hence, this unit will be equipped with that which current equips Tactical Teams in Australia (M4's, H&K's etc).
With a manpower of 1200 I think this is more in the line of French and Italian paramilitary police forces (Gendarmerie, Carabinieri).
Very good idea in my eyes.
For peacekeeping operations such formations are often enough better suited than purely military forces.
Very good idea in my eyes.
For peacekeeping operations such formations are often enough better suited than purely military forces.
Also the Portuguese paramilitaries, which Australian military and police served alongside during the recent troubles in East Timor, and which have been cited as influencing the decision.
It is definitely a very good idea. There is a capability gap between the Army and Police that has been badly exposed by recent operations in Timor and the Solomons. They need either to train the Army to cover some policing functions, or train the Police to cover some military functions. I think they have correctly chosen the latter.
I think the Italian Carabinieri are reckoned to have done a good job in a few peacekeeping missions. They bring a more policing-oriented attitude to the job than a regular army, but have the training, firepower & equipment to deal with situations where conventional civil police would be in deep trouble.
I agree that beefing up police is the right way to go. Should be easier to give the police the additional skills needed than to re-educate soldiers into a policing mindset.
kizilsungur
New Member
Bushmasters are powerfull ACVs. We product in Türkiye by FNSS.
Bushmasters are not ACV's - and they're not produced in Turkey.
Please also note that oneliner responses are not permited. Please read the Forum Rules before posting again. Other Mods have warned you already, the next breech will result in a short term ban being applied.
Jezza
Member
ITs all over
MRAP: Oshkosh Entries Stalled on 2 Fronts
It has been one of the most puzzling features of the MRAP competition to date. Thales Australia's Bushmaster vehicle was one of the first mine-resistant vehicles on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq, where it has served successfully with Australian and Dutch forces. Yet it reaped none of the "low risk deployment" orders issued at the competition's inception, and has received none since. Now Thales Australia makes it official: with over 80% of allotted vehicles ordered, the Bushmaster Category II JERRV vehicle is out of the race for MRAP-I competition orders.
The announcement means that both of Oshkosh's partnered entries have washed out, coming as it does on the heels of reports that their PVI, Inc. partnership's Alpha Category I MRUV vehicle had failed MRAP testing. The Aug 8/07 Thales Australia
"The Thales Bushmaster vehicle offer for the US MRAP Phase 1 Program was not selected due to an evolving requirement, not due to a lack of marketing or lobbying effort…. Thales and OSHKOSH remain confident of future potential sales of Bushmaster under ongoing Phases of MRAP in the US."
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mrap-oshkosh-entries-stalled-on-2-fronts-03629/
Oshkosh still has options, but it's now a long way behind truck rivals Navistar (1,960 MRAP orders) and Stewart & Stevenson (now BAE, 1,170 orders) in its efforts to capitalize on this major land vehicle trend.
Maybe down the track but dont hold your breath
MRAP: Oshkosh Entries Stalled on 2 Fronts
It has been one of the most puzzling features of the MRAP competition to date. Thales Australia's Bushmaster vehicle was one of the first mine-resistant vehicles on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq, where it has served successfully with Australian and Dutch forces. Yet it reaped none of the "low risk deployment" orders issued at the competition's inception, and has received none since. Now Thales Australia makes it official: with over 80% of allotted vehicles ordered, the Bushmaster Category II JERRV vehicle is out of the race for MRAP-I competition orders.
The announcement means that both of Oshkosh's partnered entries have washed out, coming as it does on the heels of reports that their PVI, Inc. partnership's Alpha Category I MRUV vehicle had failed MRAP testing. The Aug 8/07 Thales Australia
"The Thales Bushmaster vehicle offer for the US MRAP Phase 1 Program was not selected due to an evolving requirement, not due to a lack of marketing or lobbying effort…. Thales and OSHKOSH remain confident of future potential sales of Bushmaster under ongoing Phases of MRAP in the US."
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mrap-oshkosh-entries-stalled-on-2-fronts-03629/
Oshkosh still has options, but it's now a long way behind truck rivals Navistar (1,960 MRAP orders) and Stewart & Stevenson (now BAE, 1,170 orders) in its efforts to capitalize on this major land vehicle trend.
Maybe down the track but dont hold your breath