US Army buys Bushmasters from Australia

[icelord]

Stryker is named in honor of two American servicemen who were killed in action at different times: Pfc Stuart S. Stryker, who received the Medal of Honor for his actions during World War II and Spc Robert F. Stryker, who received the award for his actions during the Vietnam War.
i knew, while looking for something about the Strykers critics i found out bout the naming. i was poking fun at it. and i recall the canadians calling it the Striker somewhere, may have misread.

 

[Marsh]

A little OT, but I've just seen Icelord's location. Great wine from round there

 

[eckherl]

Stryker is based on the Piranha III, & named as Marsh says - look up Robert F. Stryker. Nothing to do with the words strike or striker, or being "kool".

AFAIK the only AFV called a Striker is the British FV102, the ATGW-carrying member of the CVR(T) (Scorpion, Scimitar, Spartan, etc) family. The FV102 Striker has no connection to the Piranha or Stryker.

Yes - it carried the Swing fire anti tank missile system, they seemed not to keep them on the books though for any length of time.

I had the oppertunity to ride in a Scimitar at Salsbury plains, that thing was moving so fast cross country that it scared the living daylights out of me.

 

[Izzy1]

I had the oppertunity to ride in a Scimitar at Salsbury plains, that thing was moving so fast cross country that it scared the living daylights out of me.

If memory serves - a Jaguar petrol engine, thin aluminium-based armour and a max CC speed of 80kmh. Not surprised you were scared! The CVR/T - if you could catch it, would 'brew-up' regardless. And they wanted to put Prince Harry into a combat zone with a not-too-distant variant.

 

[riksavage]

All CVRT variants are now fitted with Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel engines. No more 'brewing up' worries!

The vehicles have exceptionally low ground pressure, which coupled with the 30mm Rarden cannon make them very popular in Afghanistan supporting infantry units and in Iraq patrolling the Iranian border. They have been upgraded in-theatre with bar-armour to reduce the potential damage caused by an RPG strikes. If you look at the losses when compared against the time and exposure they have had in recent combat zones they have performed extremely well. The German Weasel represents a modern version of the same principle – light, para-deployable, quick and capable of packing a punch.

A recent article published in the UK press quoted how the CVRT’s were deployed in support of an infantry battle-group where they were utilised to shoot Afghan insurgents hiding in trees at extremely long distances. The quote from the Infantry officer on the ground stated it was like ‘watching coconuts fall from a shaken tree.’

With the planned upgrade of Warrior to a 40mm cannon there is no reason why CVRT should not benifit from the same upgrade if FRES continues to be delayed.

The Striker varient is still used in support of a troop of Simitar to provide stand-off cover to protect a screen of recce vehicles advancing across open ground. The Swingfire SACLOS anti-armour missiles have a range of 4000 metres.

 

[RubiconNZ]

USMC just bought another 235 Cougars, so the order seems a little less likely.

Don't be to sure according to this there is plenty of orders to come:

DoD Panel Approves $8.3B for MRAPs Through 2008
By KRIS OSBORN


The Joint Requirements Oversight Council, the top DoD procurement panel, approved in early July spending $8.3 billion through 2008 to produce an unspecified number of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs) as fast as possible.
“The final procurement quantity will be shaped by continual assessment of changing threat conditions, feedback from commanders in theater, and potential changes in strategic landscapes and assigned missions,” said DoD spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin.
DoD sources said part of the reason for the uncertainty is that U.S. forces may not be deployed in Iraq in large numbers after 2008.
The JROC already has authorized the military to buy 7,774 MRAPs: 3,700 for the Marine Corps, 2,500 for the Army, 697 for the Air Force, 544 for the Navy and 333 for Special Operations Forces.
The $8.3 billion will cover these vehicles, and possibly more, Irwin said.
The Pentagon plans to buy a total of 23,200 14- and 21-ton MRAPs, a number that tripled in May after Army Secretary Pete Geren said his service planned to buy 17,700 MRAPs by 2010. In early May, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told the service chiefs to make MRAPs DoD’s top acquisition priority.
Battlefield commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as lawmakers, have called for more MRAPs.
U.S. Army Gen. Richard Cody, the vice chief of staff, said in late June that the MRAP push would continue through 2008.
“Sometime in 2008, we’ll know, based on the commanders’ needs on the ground, what the buy will be,” Cody said. “I don’t know how many we’re going to buy. We have the plan for a one-to-one replacement the commanders asked for, but more important is to maximize the monthly production rate through ’07 and ’08 so we give the operational commander what they need.”
Gina Cavallero contributed to this report.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2882470&C=america

 

[eckherl]

All CVRT variants are now fitted with Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel engines. No more 'brewing up' worries!

The vehicles have exceptionally low ground pressure, which coupled with the 30mm Rarden cannon make them very popular in Afghanistan supporting infantry units and in Iraq patrolling the Iranian border. They have been upgraded in-theatre with bar-armour to reduce the potential damage caused by an RPG strikes. If you look at the losses when compared against the time and exposure they have had in recent combat zones they have performed extremely well. The German Weasel represents a modern version of the same principle – light, para-deployable, quick and capable of packing a punch.

A recent article published in the UK press quoted how the CVRT’s were deployed in support of an infantry battle-group where they were utilised to shoot Afghan insurgents hiding in trees at extremely long distances. The quote from the Infantry officer on the ground stated it was like ‘watching coconuts fall from a shaken tree.’

With the planned upgrade of Warrior to a 40mm cannon there is no reason why CVRT should not benifit from the same upgrade if FRES continues to be delayed.

The Striker varient is still used in support of a troop of Simitar to provide stand-off cover to protect a screen of recce vehicles advancing across open ground. The Swingfire SACLOS anti-armour missiles have a range of 4000 metres.

Good information - I thought that they took the Strikers out of inventory many years ago.

 

[buglerbilly]

The Scimitars and other members of the same family of vehicles also now have Plasan Sasa add-on armour, and in some cases Bar Armour as well.

 

[peterAustralia]

I was watching TV this morning, the 'Sunday' program on channel 9 (Australia). They say that the deal has fallen through.

Apparently this was due to political motivations inside the US, as opposed to a pure military decision. The labor member for Bendigo (where Australia builds its bushmasters) claimed that the US was putting the interests of American defence contractors above that of lives of their soldiers. I do not know whether his claim is true or not true, but from my memory this is a reasonable retelling of his words.

The TV said that the Dutch have 24 bushmasters and that one had survived an IED in Afghanistan, as has an Australian bushmaster in Iraq. The TV program was very complementary about the vehicle. Sunday is a distinguished TV program with an excellent reputation, thus I would assert it's stories have more weight than possibly some others.

 

[Todjaeger]

I was watching TV this morning, the 'Sunday' program on channel 9 (Australia). They say that the deal has fallen through.

Apparently this was due to political motivations inside the US, as opposed to a pure military decision. The labor member for Bendigo (where Australia builds its bushmasters) claimed that the US was putting the interests of American defence contractors above that of lives of their soldiers. I do not know whether his claim is true or not true, but from my memory this is a reasonable retelling of his words.

The TV said that the Dutch have 24 bushmasters and that one had survived an IED in Afghanistan, as has an Australian bushmaster in Iraq. The TV program was very complementary about the vehicle. Sunday is a distinguished TV program with an excellent reputation, thus I would assert it's stories have more weight than possibly some others.

I don't know the veracity of the story, but unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be true. I'm of the opinion that much of the kit the US uses in Iraq and Afghanistan is really not suited to the roles and environments that they are operating in. It would be understandable that in the initial period, or even the first year or two, some kit might end up being used in ways it wasn't intended for and doesn't perform well in, due to a lack of an alternative. The part I find questionable (and truthfully makes me angry) is that there are a number of existing solutions that aren't being implemented, or are being implemented slowly, while more of the less than effective continues to enter service.

To put a point on it, the up-armoured Humvees which can, after up-armouring, take a 7.62mm AP hit come to mind. Having watched what happens to the windshield after such a hit, it's very difficult to see out of (meaning the vehicle can't really be operated safely). Due to the increase in weight from the additional armour, the vehicle's suspension is under greater stress than was designed for and as a result the vehicle wears out faster. The vehicle hull is still a relatively flat surface, leaving the passengers vulnerable to mines and IEDs.

Given the available alternatives that are in service, with South Africa having several proven designs, as well as two Australian designs available (Thales-ADI Bushmaster & Tenix S600) and that only limited numbers of these types of vehicles have been purchased by the US... It makes me wonder if this had been done so that a domestic contractor can design their own IM-type vehicle without assistance from other countries/companies.

Time will tell.

 

[Jezza]

I was watching TV this morning, the 'Sunday' program on channel 9 (Australia). They say that the deal has fallen through.

Apparently this was due to political motivations inside the US, as opposed to a pure military decision. The labor member for Bendigo (where Australia builds its bushmasters) claimed that the US was putting the interests of American defence contractors above that of lives of their soldiers. I do not know whether his claim is true or not true, but from my memory this is a reasonable retelling of his words.

The TV said that the Dutch have 24 bushmasters and that one had survived an IED in Afghanistan, as has an Australian bushmaster in Iraq. The TV program was very complementary about the vehicle. Sunday is a distinguished TV program with an excellent reputation, thus I would assert it's stories have more weight than possibly some others.

Oh well their loss. We actually made something fantastic but the USA
loves its politics

 

[Manfred2]

Not so sure if it was just politics, but that probably had something to do with it.

Don't forget, the Stryker just came into service, and standardization is the name of the game in military procurement.

Since they were destined for Iraq, they would probably have been turned over to the Iraqi Army. Perhaps the Baghdad government had an objection to something the Australian Defense minister said recently, and quashed the deal because of that?

 

[Todjaeger]

Not so sure if it was just politics, but that probably had something to do with it.

Don't forget, the Stryker just came into service, and standardization is the name of the game in military procurement.

Since they were destined for Iraq, they would probably have been turned over to the Iraqi Army. Perhaps the Baghdad government had an objection to something the Australian Defense minister said recently, and quashed the deal because of that?

Yes, but the intended role of the Stryker is different from that of an IMV like the Bushmaster. The Striker is designed to be a light and mobile combat vehicle, hence the 25mm cannon. An IMV is intended to transport troops in relative comfort and safety, in areas where attacks are possible/likely but are not intended for frontline combat duty like an APC or IFV is. An IMV in a troop convoy would replace the Humvee and 6x6 trucks, not the Bradley.

-Cheers

 

[Waylander]

The Stryker is carrying no 25mm.

RWS with a .50cal is the name of the game.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The Stryker is carrying no 25mm.

RWS with a .50cal is the name of the game.

For the present, until the new 25mm airburst weapons come into service...

 

[Waylander]

New 25mm airburst weapons?
Do you mean ABM ammo/capability for the existing 25mm weapons or a new system?
Could you please give further informations?

Edit:
I did a bit of research and is it right that you mean the new ATK 25mm lightweight gun (LW25)?

Hmmm, makes me wonder what would be the better option. A 40mm AGL or the new LW25.
In the end you have to decide if the advantage in penetration of the LW25 is worth the less HE payload compared to a 40mm.

 

[Aussie Digger]

New 25mm airburst weapons?
Do you mean ABM ammo/capability for the existing 25mm weapons or a new system?
Could you please give further informations?

Edit:
I did a bit of research and is it right that you mean the new ATK 25mm lightweight gun (LW25)?

Hmmm, makes me wonder what would be the better option. A 40mm AGL or the new LW25.
In the end you have to decide if the advantage in penetration of the LW25 is worth the less HE payload compared to a 40mm.

I guess we'll see. Australia is conducting it's Land 40 Phase 2 program in 2007/8 with "second pass approval" (ie: ADF's preferred system) to be authorised and project funding released.

Land 40 phase 2 is to acquire new direct fire support weapons with a 40mm AGL or 25mm cannon as the primary weapon to be acquired under the project. Personally I think the 25mm will be selected...

And yes, the LW25 is what I was referring to.


Cheers

AD.

 

[Waylander]

Thanks for the informations.

 

[riksavage]

62.7% of the US MRAP program's 7,774 vehicle orders have now been issued according to a recent press release. BAE Systems' share of orders to date rises to 34.9% (31 RG-33, 170 RG-33 SOCOM, 314 RG-33L, 16 RG-33L Ambulance = 531 vehicles + Armor Holdings 1,170 Caimins), vaulting them into a close second place behind Force Protection, Inc's 36.5%.

Based on these figures there may still be hope for Bushmaster yet, however as mentioned previously the design offers very similar capabilities to the RG-33, so why buy both?

 

[buglerbilly]

Based on these figures there may still be hope for Bushmaster yet, however as mentioned previously the design offers very similar capabilities to the RG-33, so why buy both?

There are a number of overlaps between various designs not just RG-33 and Bushies. The same comment could apply to a raft of others.

However it's not the number of types that is the problem for the USA it's the factual numbers they need to be in the field right now.

There are production problems for all of the manufacturers which is one reason why parts such as Tyres, Engines, Drive-shfts, etc etc have been given a DX classification in the supply chain, basically giving them Priority over everything else.

Thales ADI & Oshkosh still have a long way to go to bring this matter to a successful conclusion, and the longer this drags on the less likely it becomes they will succeed, thats a simple fact of life.

Regards,

BUG