Turkey Tank Tender

[orko_8]

Newsflash: South Korean ADD/ROTEM has been selected as the foreign sub contractor for the Turkish Main Battle Tank project after today's Defense Industry Executive Committee meeting.

 

[eckherl]

Newsflash: South Korean ADD/ROTEM has been selected as the foreign sub contractor for the Turkish Main Battle Tank project after today's Defense Industry Executive Committee meeting.

What will they be contributing to as far as components go.

 

[Waylander]

Would be interesting to see how mech tech transfer the Koreans are willing to give.
I think this the amount of tech transfer versus pure component support was the most important factor in choosing the foreign help.

 

[eckherl]

Would be interesting to see how mech tech transfer the Koreans are willing to give.
I think this the amount of tech transfer versus pure component support was the most important factor in choosing the foreign help.

Yes - this will be interesting, it looks like Turkey is making a commitment to actually go to the next step for the design phase of their own tank, we shall see.:unknown

 

[beleg]

It will be a very interesting period. Personally i wonder the direction this project will eventually go.. Will it be like K9/T155 where Korean K-9 was localized successfully? Or will Otokar design a completely different tank with some assistance.. I guess we will all wait and see.. I just hope it doesn't become an Arjun..

 

[Akinci-Raider]

It will be a very interesting period. Personally i wonder the direction this project will eventually go.. Will it be like K9/T155 where Korean K-9 was localized successfully? Or will Otokar design a completely different tank with some assistance.. I guess we will all wait and see.. I just hope it doesn't become an Arjun..

Is that Korean tank similar Abrams1?

 

[beleg]

K1 was similar to M1 but with aluminum based armor. K2 has much more advanced systems however the armor is still likely to be Al based. Maybe Korean friends can enlighten us.

 

[Dae JoYoung]

Korea in Huge Arms Export Deal to Turkey

Korea will export its next-generation tank XK-2 Heukpyo, a.k.a. Black Panther and training plane KT-1 Ungbi to Turkey. The contract is worth more than W500 billion (US$1=W938), the second largest arms export deal in Korea’s history. Turkey is buying 30 of the planes.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration on Thursday said the Turkish government announced that it launched negotiations with Korea Aerospace Industries to purchase the training planes. DAPA added that the technology to manufacture the Heukpyo tank will be exported to Turkey and the vehicle will be produced there. The tanks cost W8.3 billion each.

They have a 120-mm gun and can protect themselves from chemical, biological and radioactive attacks. They run at a maximum speed of 70 km/h with a 150-horsepower engine and can function under 4.1 m of water. The Agency for Defense Development and Rotem, an affiliate of the Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group, invested W200 billion over the past 12 years in development of the tank. It will be put into service in 2011.

Developed by the Agency for Defense Development in 1988, the first KT-1 went into service in November 2000 and the Korean Air Force uses 85 of them. A DAPA official said 12 KT-1s have been exported to Indonesia. The training plane has a top speed of 574 km/h with a 950-horsepower engine.

([email protected] )

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200706/200706220024.html
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*I really don't like this arms deal to Turkey.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/26/wkurd126.xml


pANTHER 2 IN aCTION:nutkick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1seG7MHZU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2_Black_Panther

Yet to be tested. I would imagine it would see action at some point.

 

[beleg]

Care to elaborate why you don't like the arms deal ? Because we are taking action against some terrorists?

Why are you building these tanks and weapons? Because you love N.Koreans? Just be serious please..

 

[Dae JoYoung]

Turkey's armed conflict with the Kurds may be inevitable, but I don't think Koreans should get involved in this at all. I don't like the idea of Korean arms being used to kill innocent people.

Whatever problems the Turks have against the Kurds is their problem. 'Understand that Korea is an American Allie and that can create problems in the long run regarding Kurdistan.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/27/turkey.terrorism/

That region is an ugly mess, but, I am not stupid either. The Turks are eying the rich Iraqi Oilfields in Kirkuk. :unknown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkuk

 

[beleg]

Buddy as long as you watch/follow only American news you will not have insight into the political mess of the region. You will only believe what you are fed.

We are not fighting innocent people we are fighting terrorists. Turkey is a part of NATO an ally of USA and USA recognizes PKK as a terrorist organization as well.. Period! TSK fights against PKK not Kurds.

Luckily your military and political leadership has better insight than you. At least many Koreans i talked to remember how Turkish soldiers died for Koreans despite the fact that we had no great reason to get involved.. You are definitely not stupid but surely mislead.

 

[f-22fan12]

Buddy as long as you watch/follow only American news you will not have insight into the political mess of the region. You will only believe what you are fed.

We are not fighting innocent people we are fighting terrorists. Turkey is a part of NATO an ally of USA and USA recognizes PKK as a terrorist organization as well.. Period! TSK fights against PKK not Kurds.

Luckily your military and political leadership has better insight than you. At least many Koreans i talked to remember how Turkish soldiers died for Koreans despite the fact that we had no great reason to get involved.. You are definitely not stupid but surely mislead.

You are certainly right. They are just defending themselves from terrorist attack.

 

[Marsh]

According to Jane's, Rotem's bid was based on technology transfer while KMW's was founded on a workshare deal. There may well have been other considerations, though re: the PKK discussion I don't think there was a political dimension as there was over Pz 2000s.

 

[Soner1980]

Ofcourse there was a political thing till the German economy collapsed in 2001-2002. Remember the Tank-2000 tender: The Greens boycotted Turkey in all military goodies. The Leopard-2A6 was chosen the best tank survived the test results and with many problems 1 tank was sold to Turkey to get used in the tank test. The whole german parliament turned into chaos class and the Germans did not accepted to co-work with the Turkish factories. $ 7 billion lost...

In 2003, when Recep Erdogan was prime minister, the Germans announced that they will sell 1000 Leo-2A6 or license built them in Turkey. But Recep Tayyip Erdogan rejected with: No, we don't need your tanks anymore, we will produce our own tank indigenously.

So, comming to my story: The Korean industry is just for 'help' in Turkey. Otokar has announced that many heavy industries must advance one level higher to acquire the industrial base to produce a MBT. The Korean industry will give us (or teach us) some information and/or assist in the design to produce our own tank. But when the deal was made, Turkey have to sell some weapons also from Korea: 30 Trainer planes and 250 Black Panter tanks.

 

[jedigman]

The Turkish tank will be the direct descendant of the Korean K2 tank. It will have Turkish Fire control system from Aselsan and a composite Armour from Tubitak.

Tubitak recently tested the composite Armour to 10kg of TnT, 30mm Armour piercing rounds and the LAW rpg, all of them failed to penetrate the inch thick Armour.

 

[Lostfleet]

Do you know how heavy this tank will be? ( Just curious if it is heavy as M1 or a lighter Tank with the same punch)

 

[jedigman]

Do you know how heavy this tank will be? ( Just curious if it is heavy as M1 or a lighter Tank with the same punch)

This what i know...

Turkish tank features

As known the Turkish tank (code name MITUP) will be largely based on the Korean XK2-PIP (XK2 enhanced)

Maneuverability and offensive features:
- XK2 features a new 1,500 horsepower engine, similar to MTU-890, developed by Korean companies.
- A small gas-turbine engine capable of outputting 100 horsepower act as an auxiliary power unit for the tank to power its onboard systems even when its main engines are turned off. It will allow the tank to conserve fuel when idling and reduce the vehicle's overall thermal and acoustic signatures.
- The vehicle can cross rivers as deep as 4.1 meters
- Armed with an indigenous 120 mm smoothbore gun, 55 caliber in barrel length, developed by ADD, with a total ammunition capacity of 40.
- The autoloader taken by GIAT’s Leclerc enables the tank to fire up to 15 rounds per minute, or one round every four seconds, without being affected by the gun's angle.
- Can fire variety of munitions: APFSDS, HEAT and KSTAM (Korean Smart Top-Attack Munition) rounds, similar to the SMArt 155.
- The turret is driven by electrical motors.
- The tank will also be equipped with a millimeter band RADAR system, along with the traditional LASER range-finder and crosswind sensor, combined with next-generation FCS, that will allow it to track and engage low-flying aircraft with the main gun quickly and accurately as well as detect incoming projectiles fired at the tank. A "lock-on" mode will be available for the tank's FCS to keep its target locked on to the targeting system, with the system calculating, adjusting and updating the target's information constantly, allowing the tank to fire while moving without any loss of accuracy. The lock-on mode can acquire and track its target using thermal optics wired to the FCS up to 9.8 km away.
- Ability to link up with C4I and features an IFF/SIF system compliant with STANAG 4579.
- Active In-arm Suspension Unit and integrating the suspension system with a high-resolution automatic terrain-scanning system that can scan nearby terrain from 10 to 50 meters away from the tank in all directions, which will allow the vehicle to "plan ahead" and calculate the most optimal position the bogies need to be at in order to improve handling of the vehicle and further lessen the vehicle's vibration.

Armor and defensive features
- composite armor and an Active Defense System utilizing Explosive Reactive Armor blocks.
- VIRSS grenade launchers fire off VIRSS grenades which can effectively block visual, RADAR and thermal sights, using the vehicle's millimeter band RADAR system. The vehicle's computer can automatically detect any incoming projectiles.
- hard-kill anti-missile defense system like AwiSS or similar:

The system comprises of search and track Ka band radar, capable of operation in low visibility conditions. After the threat is detected by the radar, the directional countermeasure unit is rapidly traversed, at rapid slewing rate (over 600 degrees/sec.) aiming at the general directional of the threat. At this stage the target is handed over to the launcher mounted sensor, which performs the ballistic calculations for the final intercept. Each launcher has three-or four canister launchers that fire grenades ahead of the vehicle, in the direction of the incoming threat.
AWiSS uses a 3kg grenade, which can engage anti-tank missiles and anti tank rockets (such as RPGs). The system has a response rate of 355 ms - detecting incoming threats at a range of 75 meters and engaging them with a grenade at a range of 10 meters from the target. AWiSS is designed to defeat RPGs and other Anti Tank munitions fired from close range, as well as standoff AT missiles. It also offers significant reduction of a Kinetic Energy (KE) projectile's penetration capability.

Specifications
Weight: 55 tonnes
Length: 10 m (7.5m chassis)
Width: 3.1 m
Height: 2.2 m
Crew: 3 (commander, gunner, driver)
________________________________________
Armor: Layers consisting of soft- and hard-kill anti-missile defense systems, ERA, NERA, modular & new unknown type of composite armor
Primary armament: 120 mm, 55 caliber smoothbore gun (40 rounds)
Secondary armament: 1× .50 cal.(12.7 mm)(3,200 rounds), 1x 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun (12,000 rounds)
Engine: 4-cycle, 12-cylinder water-cooled diesel (similar to MTU-890) 1,500 hp
Power/weight: 27.2 hp/tonne
Suspension: In-arm Suspension Unit
Operational range: N/A
Speed: 70 km/h (acceleration of 0-32 km/h with in 7 seconds)

Last but not least Turkish main additions will be
- FCS developed by Aselsan
- LAHAT like anti tank/ anti helicopter laser guided missile firable from the main gun (in development by Roketsan)
- Tank communication electronics (by Aselsan)
- Composite armour (by Tubitak)

:shudder

 

[Lostfleet]

Thanks a lot for the info,

do you think auto-loader will be reliable enought to use in battle situations( it is the riskiest machinery, once it jams or broken the tank would be defenceless in the middle of the battlefield)

 

[Stimpy75]

i can only quote what i ´ve read in savunma ve havcilik #121 defence magazine,which says that there will be no automatic loading system in the MITUP....hmm,perhaps the next batch will have AL-system,who knows:unknown
but if Al-systems jams or is broken,you can still load it manually or use it in semiautomatic mode,it´s not like the russian AL-system of the T-90/T-80,where once it´s broken you just have your MG to defend yourself....if i can find the link for the AL-system i will post it
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t55agma.php
at the bottom there are the operations mode for the AL-system,including the emergency(manual) mode,ok it´s not the korean system,but i guess it works the same way.....

 

[Lostfleet]

than it will be a four crew tank? ( maybe a little higher than specified above because of the loader?)