The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[personaldesas]

However, it has been stipulated that deliveries may begin ONLY IN A FEW YEARS.

So it might not matter.

 

[Feanor]

View attachment 55938



So it might not matter.

Then again, it might. Nobody thought we'd be watching the war with no end in sight in 2026, back in '22. It would be terrible but this war could still be ongoing in 2029.

 

[vikingatespam]

in a rational world, where the US and EU isn't obsessed with regime change, NATO expansion and colour revolutions. Russia wouldn't have attacked Ukraine. Ukraine isn't the one fighting, Russia is fighting all of NATO put together, without NATO this war would have been a walk in the garden for Russia, the whole operation would have resembled the Crimea take over.

You are fully aligned, how long will you dismiss valid arguments as whataboutism? we have US and EU toppling leaders of modern countries, kidnapping Presidents in modern times and you are trying to lecture us on modern nationalism. did you expect Russia to sit and watch it's friendly government being overthrown and all its assets and businesses in Ukraine taken over by the west?

Oh lord, here come the Putin apologists, full of Kremlin sponsored lines, again and again.

Trust me, if NATO was fighting RU, the war would of been over long ago. NATO hasnt even woken up and had its morning coffee.

RU attacked UKR twice. Not the other way around. Just accept reality, and you wont have to fight the cognitive dissonance that likely causes your constant head pains.

All of these problems are of Putins making.

 

[vikingatespam]

Two questions then, but please, feel free to give a High Horse speech again...

Are we digging Ukraine's hole deeper and deeper?

No, "we" are not. We are giving material aid to UKR, so Russia can dig its hole deeper.

Continuing the attrition war will be cost free for Ukraine in lives and for NATO in money?

Continuing to fight for your Ukrainian existence will not be free, no matter what aid you get. Putin can end this war tomorrow.

 

[vikingatespam]

Events from more than a decade ago that is still shaping the war and the future of Ukraine today. so you regime change a corrupt leader for another corrupt leader right?

What do you mean "you" ? The Ukrainian people got rid of Yan., not some shadowy conspiracy by NATO and the US.

Your Ruble paycheck, is showing, comrade.

 

[vikingatespam]

good thing you have recovered from the Ukraine is winning fairy tale, now you have jumped on, Russia couldn't take it in 3 days fairy tale. 3 days or 10 years, it don't matter, as long as NATO and CIA remain in Ukraine Ukraine will remain a dysfunctional state till she will cease to exist

I love the smell of rationalization mixed with cognitive dissonance. The piss poor performance of the RU army will be the stuff of military history for the forseeable future.

Look out ! CIA biolabs ! [conspiracy...conspiracy]

Try taking off your tin-foil hat for a few minutes.

 

[vikingatespam]

Russia will not collapse.

What happens when Putin dies ? He's already in overtime. If Putin is running the RU economy into the ground, and there is no clear political successor, what happens then ?

 

[vikingatespam]

Further problems for the VKS. Two Su-34 confirmed by satellite pics, suposedly by a Neptune strike.

On that subject, here is an analysis of the stress on the VKS airframe lifetimes:

While the VKS isnt going to vanish anytime soon, the airframe attrition will probably see increased accidents and losses.

 

[personaldesas]

Then again, it might. Nobody thought we'd be watching the war with no end in sight in 2026, back in '22. It would be terrible but this war could still be ongoing in 2029.

I'm actually trying to dig up some prediction market data to see how far out the markets have put the end of the war over the years. Could be interesting to see.

 

[rsemmes]

What happens when Putin dies ? He's already in overtime. If Putin is running the RU economy into the ground, and there is no clear political successor, what happens then ?

It is interesting that you use the term cognitive dissonance... about others.

Let's see...
What is Zelenski doing to Ukrainian economy? You mentioned Putin doing something...
Russia is paying a price, Ukraine and NATO are paying a price... Sorry, what?
Putin is digging a hole... Is Zelenski making Ukraine great?
After Putin? When is that? The Dutch Military Intelligence report was talking of 2030, Patriots are “expected” to start arriving after that date, what until them? Unicorns and rainbows?

NATO can end the war tomorrow... It is not going to happen.

Why would NATO act to harm itself, by betraying a friend?

We betray a friend because it is in our interest, because we think it is in our interest or because the price of not betraying him is too high. By chance, I am reading about The Pentagon Papers, betraying President Diem or betraying the whole of South VN?
Why should anyone be surprised by real politik?

 

[deyhere]

Oh lord, here come the Putin apologists, full of Kremlin sponsored lines, again and again.

Trust me, if NATO was fighting RU, the war would of been over long ago. NATO hasnt even woken up and had its morning coffee.

RU attacked UKR twice. Not the other way around. Just accept reality, and you wont have to fight the cognitive dissonance that likely causes your constant head pains.

All of these problems are of Putins making.

western propagandist, full of lies, obsessed with regime change and theft of other countries resources.

after US performance in the strait of Hormuz and the Iranian war, i will bet on Russia beating NATO, Russia has the means and the reach to punish all of NATO unlike Iran.

NATO regime changed a Russian friendly Ukrainian democratically elected government and seeks to make Ukraine a NATO member, something the Russians have warned against for more than a decade. you need to wake up from your fairy tale dream and face the reality that if NATO didn't regime change the government in Ukraine. Ukraine would have been fine today.

all the problem comes from NATO expansion and the desire to steal, not Putin

 

[deyhere]

What do you mean "you" ? The Ukrainian people got rid of Yan., not some shadowy conspiracy by NATO and the US.

Your Ruble paycheck, is showing, comrade.

the Ukrainian people got rid of Yan using NATO money, NATO intelligence, NATO sanctions. there was a big presence of NATO officials sharing bread and supplies edging the protesters on.

you can't keep lying and spinning stories, these days people are well informed

 

[deyhere]

I love the smell of rationalization mixed with cognitive dissonance. The piss poor performance of the RU army will be the stuff of military history for the forseeable future.

Look out ! CIA biolabs ! [conspiracy...conspiracy]

Try taking off your tin-foil hat for a few minutes.

this is an old story, especially with the huge embarrassment Iran served the US in the middle east

 

[Aleks.ov]

I speak English, that doesn't mean my loyalty is to England.

Language is only a marker, you omit the rest of the context. Historically, in the south-east and in Crimea, other cultural and political orientations predominate, and there is no mass social base there for Ukrainian radical nationalism or an “endless partisan war.”

Elections to the oblast councils, nationalist party VO “Svoboda,” October 2010.

 

[Redshift]

Ad hominen because it is all subjective, because they are my post.

they explain their reasoning, What do I don't explain?
are making good arguments, How is that measured?
and engage in good faith. How does he obtain any knowledge of my faith?
They do write in a way that one can follow their thinking. He cannot follow my thinking, can he ask?
Your posts here are low quality How is that measured?
low effort. How is he measuring that?
You keep recycling cheap slogans, And he is providing what examples?
and your arguments are so poorly presented that it’s often hard to follow what you’re even trying to say. If he cannot follow my thinking, can he ask?
That dilutes an otherwise substantive discussion We all wander away , even if me a bit more than usual; I did explained that.
and weakens the very positions you’re trying to defend. I thought he couldn't follow my thinking.

swerve has been asking me questions that I have been able to answer.
"Brace for the mother of all whataboutisms.
You’ll get a string of questions about everything the West has ever done to anyone, a lecture on how anyone who doesn’t accept the inevitability of full Russia’s victory is just delusional, and no actual answer."
That is him to swerve, that looks to me like fortune telling, he had already decided what I was going to say. Ad hominen because it is confirmation bias, he has decided about my post beforehand; not that we cannot do that.

Ad hominen because it is all subjective, because they are my post.

they explain their reasoning, What do I don't explain?
are making good arguments, How is that measured?
and engage in good faith. How does he obtain any knowledge of my faith?
They do write in a way that one can follow their thinking. He cannot follow my thinking, can he ask?
Your posts here are low quality How is that measured?
low effort. How is he measuring that?
You keep recycling cheap slogans, And he is providing what examples?
and your arguments are so poorly presented that it’s often hard to follow what you’re even trying to say. If he cannot follow my thinking, can he ask?
That dilutes an otherwise substantive discussion We all wander away , even if me a bit more than usual; I did explained that.
and weakens the very positions you’re trying to defend. I thought he couldn't follow my thinking.

swerve has been asking me questions that I have been able to answer.
"Brace for the mother of all whataboutisms.
You’ll get a string of questions about everything the West has ever done to anyone, a lecture on how anyone who doesn’t accept the inevitability of full Russia’s victory is just delusional, and no actual answer."
That is him to swerve, that looks to me like fortune telling, he had already decided what I was going to say. Ad hominen because it is confirmation bias, he has decided about my post beforehand; not that we cannot do that.

You do not successfully explain anything, you refer constantly to o

Definitely many mistakes we made and Russia is in a bad position. There were surely infinite better scenarios than this. But I am talking about the current situation and what the best course of action is for Russia.

@Redshift
You started to reply to me but only posted this:

Sorry mistake.

 

[rsemmes]

You do not successfully explain anything, you refer constantly to o

I did explain that, as of today, no money has been promised for Ukraine for 2028, not even mentioned, that means the social and economic collapse of Ukraine in 2028; if it doesn't happen in 2027.
Maybe you want to use "in a way that I like what you say" instead of "successfully"?

We still wonder what is "o", that if you don't like it, it is ridiculous, maybe?

 

[vikingatespam]

It is interesting that you use the term cognitive dissonance... about others.

I know you are trying to be ironic, but its very hard to agree or disagree given how you type out your response.

Let's see...
What is Zelenski doing to Ukrainian economy? You mentioned Putin doing something...

Here is the first example. What exactly does Zel./UKR economy have to do with my point about uncertainty in the future of RU given the observable facts (Putin is old, RU economy in stress, no clear political successor) ?

You see, I have never made any claims about the UKR economy being healthy, or "winning" or anything positive. The UKR economy is in dire shape given the wartime emergencies.

Therefore, your attempt at being ironic re: cognitive dissonance, simply fails.

Maybe that phrase doesnt mean what you think it means ?

Russia is paying a price, Ukraine and NATO are paying a price... Sorry, what?

Another perfect example of the difficulty in trying to parse what you write. The readers have no context about the point you are trying to get to, given this is a sentence without context. You have been asked repeatedly to provide context. You have failed to do so.

Putin is digging a hole... Is Zelenski making Ukraine great?

OK, so here we finally have a glimpse at the irony you are trying to find.

Can we all agree that Putin is digging a hole for RU ? Do you agree or disagree with the following statements:
[Agree] [Disagree] RU has lost tremendous political capital, becoming more of a political pariah
[Agree] [Disagree] Putin is driving the RU economy into deeper stress
[Agree] [Disagree] RU has suffered severe military losses, including burning through most of its cold war stocks

Lets see if you are willing to participate in this discussion, shall we ?

So, back to your statement about holes. Putin is digging a huge hole....is Zelensky "digging a hole" ? Well, I suppose thats debatable. Was Stalin digging a hole when resisting the German invasion ? If UKR gets to "win" be retaining its independent status from RU, isnt that a huge win for them ? What is the "win" for Putin ? What "win" for Putin was worth the price ?

I suppose you could say both leaders are "digging a hole", but in the case of Ukraine, Putin was handing out the shovels.

After Putin? When is that? The Dutch Military Intelligence report was talking of 2030, Patriots are “expected” to start arriving after that date, what until them? Unicorns and rainbows?

Another fine example of your (badly done in this cae) whataboutism. What do future Patriot deliveries have to do with my thesis about RU digging its own hole deeper. I have made no statements about Patriot deliveries. Any informed reader will know intuitively that any Patriots will happen some time from now.

NATO can end the war tomorrow... It is not going to happen.

If NATO/EU and US stopped all aid tomorrow the war would continue because collectively the Ukrainians dont want to be Russian.

You dont seem to get that.

We betray a friend because it is in our interest, because we think it is in our interest or because the price of not betraying him is too high. By chance, I am reading about The Pentagon Papers, betraying President Diem or betraying the whole of South VN?
Why should anyone be surprised by real politik?

Whataboutism. Irrelevent.

 

[personaldesas]

Language is only a marker, you omit the rest of the context. Historically, in the south-east and in Crimea, other cultural and political orientations predominate, and there is no mass social base there for Ukrainian radical nationalism or an “endless partisan war.”

Elections to the oblast councils, nationalist party VO “Svoboda,” October 2010.


View attachment 55942

Why use Svoboda’s vote share or language as a proxy when there are surveys asking about these preferences directly around that time?

 

[vikingatespam]

western propagandist, full of lies, obsessed with regime change and theft of other countries resources.

Im confused. When I say "RU attacked UKR twice" (observable fact), that makes me a western propagandist ?

Can you please point out any statements I have made about being obsessed with regime change and theft of resources ?

Please put your answer in the space below so we can all see it:

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after US performance in the strait of Hormuz and the Iranian war, i will bet on Russia beating NATO, Russia has the means and the reach to punish all of NATO unlike Iran.

Nice whataboutism. This subject belongs in another forum, so stop trying to deflect the clown show that describes the RU army. The RU army isnt even the second army of the world, its barely second best in Ukraine. Had Serdyukov managed to reform the Army and instill a professional NCO core, things might have been different. Well, that didnt happen, so all we have to look froward to is an endless line of virtualy untrained contracnicks being driven into the fields of slaughter.

NATO regime changed a Russian friendly Ukrainian democratically elected government and seeks to make Ukraine a NATO member,

NATO has already said "no" to UKR memebership, by its own rules. Deyhere, meet reality. Its invigorating.

something the Russians have warned against for more than a decade. you need to wake up from your fairy tale dream and face the reality that if NATO didn't regime change the government in Ukraine. Ukraine would have been fine today.

Your entire premise is that NATO caused the regime change. Totally false. You just cant grasp that the UKR people dont want to be Russian.

all the problem comes from NATO expansion and the desire to steal, not Putin

Putin was the biggest recruitment advocate for NATO. He managed to push SWE and FIN into NATO. {clap clap clap}

 

[vikingatespam]

the Ukrainian people got rid of Yan using NATO money, NATO intelligence, NATO sanctions. there was a big presence of NATO officials sharing bread and supplies edging the protesters on.

NATO money ? Where ? Show me.
NATO intelligence ? Show me.
NATO sanctions ? What.are.you.babbling.about ? NATO doesnt have "sanctions".

Sharing cookies doesnt make for a conspiracy of support.

you can't keep lying and spinning stories, these days people are well informed

Oh deyhere, I hate to break it to you but the sound of laughing here is people laughing AT you, not WITH you.

The vast majority of informed ready know what the invasion of UKR is about. Pure RU expansionism, to feed the ego of Putin.