The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[vikingatespam]

this is an old story, especially with the huge embarrassment Iran served the US in the middle east

?? Rabid conspiracy stories of CIA biolabs has exactly what to do with Iran/US ?

 

[rsemmes]

I know you are trying to be ironic, but its very hard to agree or disagree given how you type out your response.



Here is the first example. What exactly does Zel./UKR economy have to do with my point about uncertainty in the future of RU given the observable facts (Putin is old, RU economy in stress, no clear political successor) ?

You see, I have never made any claims about the UKR economy being healthy, or "winning" or anything positive. The UKR economy is in dire shape given the wartime emergencies.

Therefore, your attempt at being ironic re: cognitive dissonance, simply fails.

Maybe that phrase doesnt mean what you think it means ?



Another perfect example of the difficulty in trying to parse what you write. The readers have no context about the point you are trying to get to, given this is a sentence without context. You have been asked repeatedly to provide context. You have failed to do so.



OK, so here we finally have a glimpse at the irony you are trying to find.

Can we all agree that Putin is digging a hole for RU ? Do you agree or disagree with the following statements:
[Agree] [Disagree] RU has lost tremendous political capital, becoming more of a political pariah
[Agree] [Disagree] Putin is driving the RU economy into deeper stress
[Agree] [Disagree] RU has suffered severe military losses, including burning through most of its cold war stocks

Lets see if you are willing to participate in this discussion, shall we ?

So, back to your statement about holes. Putin is digging a huge hole....is Zelensky "digging a hole" ? Well, I suppose thats debatable. Was Stalin digging a hole when resisting the German invasion ? If UKR gets to "win" be retaining its independent status from RU, isnt that a huge win for them ? What is the "win" for Putin ? What "win" for Putin was worth the price ?

I suppose you could say both leaders are "digging a hole", but in the case of Ukraine, Putin was handing out the shovels.



Another fine example of your (badly done in this cae) whataboutism. What do future Patriot deliveries have to do with my thesis about RU digging its own hole deeper. I have made no statements about Patriot deliveries. Any informed reader will know intuitively that any Patriots will happen some time from now.



If NATO/EU and US stopped all aid tomorrow the war would continue because collectively the Ukrainians dont want to be Russian.

You dont seem to get that.



Whataboutism. Irrelevent.

The "context" is your post, I am responding to your post. You see the future terrible economic situation of Russia but you don't want to see what the economic situation of Ukraine is today. Considering that the war is between Russia and Ukraine (with NATO support), some people may think that the economic situation of Ukraine could have something to do with it; like Ukrainians fighting forever, with sticks and stones, once Ukraine has no money.
I could also mention (as cognitive dissonance, unless your are a psychologist and you are using the term in a strictly medical sense) that you point out at Patriots, but not at 2030, the Report or... Unicorns and Rainbows.

I use irony, thank you, that you are able to read (or it is not that difficult to read or you are a genius) to point out a selective vision of reality. For some reason, I consider NATO support (or lack of) and Ukraine's economy relevant to a war between Russia and Ukraine.

 

[rsemmes]

Any call to "meet reality" in this thread, or forum, is, indeed, invigorating. (vikingatespam)

Sadly, "Expectation tended to outrun execution." (From an American Civil War History book.)

 

[Aleks.ov]

Why use Svoboda’s vote share or language as a proxy when there are surveys asking about these preferences directly around that time?

View attachment 55945

That is exactly why protests against the forceful seizure of power in Kyiv (on the Maidan) broke out in Donetsk. I repeat: cultural-political orientations in the South-East radically differ from the western regions. Ukraine is a young state with a deeply split society, which has a rather clear electoral-geographical division, and that is exactly why it should have remained a buffer neutral state and not enter into economic or military unions with the West.
Voting in the 2010 presidential elections: conditionally pro-Russian candidate Yanukovych - 48.95%, and conditionally pro-Western Tymoshenko - 45.47%.

 

[swerve]

Western countries were refusing to allow it into either NATO or the EU. By attacking Ukraine, Putin forced it to abandon neutrality & align completely with the west, & induced the west to accept it as an ally because the alternative was seeing it turned into a puppet of Russia.

Would you like to explain to Putin how he cocked up?

 

[personaldesas]

That is exactly why protests against the forceful seizure of power in Kyiv (on the Maidan) broke out in Donetsk. I repeat: cultural-political orientations in the South-East radically differ from the western regions. Ukraine is a young state with a deeply split society, which has a rather clear electoral-geographical division, and that is exactly why it should have remained a buffer neutral state and not enter into economic or military unions with the West.
Voting in the 2010 presidential elections: conditionally pro-Russian candidate Yanukovych - 48.95%, and conditionally pro-Western Tymoshenko - 45.47%.

View attachment 55947

Almost all countries have regional political divisions. Not sure if we can infer anything from that perse.



Voting for Yanukovych does not establish support for every foreign-policy position attributed to him. Why infer those preferences from an election when surveys asked about them directly?