The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[rsemmes]

What do you mean by "not improving its negotiating position"? Vis-a-vis who?

There is only one negotiation, Russia vs Ukraine. The nuance is that Ukraine is in the menu, not at the table; as I read somewhere.

Obviously, Ukraine will be at the table, if it's still in the fight, but, whatever Zelenski says, it will be completely irrelevant. If the EU is paying for 80% of Ukraine’s financial needs, what is the point of Ukraine sitting at the table?
I think that it is evident that if Ukraine cannot keep the country running, not just the war, Ukraine will not negotiate, it will simply accept whatever terms Russia wishes to dictate.
Running out of money this year, begging for a lot more to survive next year and... negotiating with what in 2028? I cannot see Russia running out of tanks or money in 2027. The Ukrainian position has been deteriorating since 2022 and its fall is accelerating now. 80%? There is no Ukrainian economy!
There is no negotiating position for Ukraine, that is what I mean.

It would be a strange coincidence, considering what may happen next year and if 80% is the real number, that, even if we want to keep Russia in the fight, France (Ukraine) gives up Indochina (the war).

Edit.
Not that bad. The EU is paying for 80% of Ukraine’s external financial needs. It is possible that Ukraine will be able to finance between 35% and 60% of its budget. Expectations are great for 2028, I guess Ukraine will be able to repair everything and it will suffer no further damages.

 

[personaldesas]

NATO trained troops, NATO shells, NATO weapons, NATO financed and planned in a NATO HQ.
Oh, yes... The cannon fodder was Ukrainian.

Ukrainian when you're counting the dead, NATO when you're naming the offensive. Convenient how the people doing the fighting only count when they serve your argument.

Anyway, onto my ignore list you go. If I ever want more of your arguments, I might as well cut out the middleman and go straight to Solovyov.

 

[rsemmes]

Ukrainian when you're counting the dead, NATO when you're naming the offensive. Convenient how the people doing the fighting only count when they serve your argument.

Anyway, onto my ignore list you go. If I ever want more of your arguments, I might as well cut out the middleman and go straight to Solovyov.

My argument was, as it has been posted repeatedly, that this has never been NATO's war, no matter what Zelenski has been begging, requesting or demanding; so, Robotine was never a NATO offensive.
At the same time, it is evident that Russia is fighting Ukraine and NATO and that NATO wants to keep Ukraine in the fight. Since the end of 2022, how many pensioneers would had starve to death, how many hospitals would be still functioning, how many soldiers paid, how many shells would had Ukraine been firing whithout NATO?
It was never a NATO offensive and it would had never been possible without NATO.

 

[Redshift]

No.
Before you asked I used Zelinki's “acknowledged the reality” to point out that, according to his own words (Zelinki's, not mine), Ukraine is not serious about peace.

If you want to go for History, a lot of people is, and has been, claiming a lot of things. Hitler didn't claim the Manifest Destiny, Hitler didn't claim the Monroe Doctrine. Israel is in Lebanon, S. Arabia in Yemen, the US is bombing Iran (not right now), any claims there?
Maybe you noticed that I didn't say that Russia is not a corrupt state; we all take that for granted. Maybe you noticed that I mentioned the UK joining the EU again.

"Ukraine is not serious about peace if it does not make significant territorial concessions." Where did you notice that, in "what a peace agreement would look like"? Ukraine is at the receiving end, Ukraine will make concessions, I see that as a logical conclusion. Looking at the situation today, and answering what I think, as I explained, was your question, that is, IMO, what a peace agreement would look like.
I also think that you misread or purposely misread my post.

You do realise that if Russia stopped attacking Ukraine, then Ukraine would almost certainly stop fighting back by attacking Russia? Chances are the Russian offensive and defensive war inside Ukraine would continue, but even that would stop if Russia ceased it's offensive there as well?

 

[Redshift]

My argument was, as it has been posted repeatedly, that this has never been NATO's war, no matter what Zelenski has been begging, requesting or demanding; so, Robotine was never a NATO offensive.
At the same time, it is evident that Russia is fighting Ukraine and NATO and that NATO wants to keep Ukraine in the fight. Since the end of 2022, how many pensioneers would had starve to death, how many hospitals would be still functioning, how many soldiers paid, how many shells would had Ukraine been firing whithout NATO?
It was never a NATO offensive and it would had never been possible without NATO.

The answer is none of Russia stopped attacking. No missiles if any sort would be fired by Ukraine if Russia stopped firing theirs first, very simple.