Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Russia isn't concerned with that, and has no reason to be.
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
Map of the dam area. I have added in the locations of the Kakhovskaya dam and the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant.
The following is video from Telegram.
Zelenski video of dam break:
Николаевский Ванёк
Російські терористи руйнуванням дамби Каховської ГЕС лише підтверджують для всього світу, що їх треба вигнати з кожного куточка української землі. Жодного метра не можна їм залишати, бо кожен метр вони використовують для терору. Лише перемога України поверне безпеку. І ця перемога буде. Ані...
t.me
Water flow at the Kakhovskaya HPP from a slightly different angle:
Kakhovskaya HPP in the morning today:
As a result of the detonation, the water level in the Kakhov reservoir is rapidly decreasing, which is an additional threat to the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhya NPP:
Николаевский Ванёк
‼️ Підрив рашистами Каховської ГЕС може мати негативні наслідки для ЗАЕС, проте ситуація контрольована Вночі 6 червня 2023 року російські окупанти підірвали греблю Каховської ГЕС. Внаслідок підриву рівень води в Каховському водосховищі стрімко знижується, що є додатковою загрозою для тимчасово...
t.me
Water level at Zaprohizia: ХДніпро
Kherson Island St Maria Fort:
Николаевский Ванёк
Херсон Остров / ул. Марии Фортус ~ 09:00 ⏱️ Если у вас есть фото / видео перепадов воды в районе Херсона, то присылайте @fake_ks @kherson_non_fake
t.me
There is a report of the Hawkei vehicle being provided to Ukraine and providing air defence ,Im not sure if anyone has provided this before the politicians had a chance to announce this
Russia-Ukraine war: Hawkei armoured vehicles bound for front lines in Australian support deal (smh.com.au)
Australian light-armoured tactical vehicles to be rolled as Ukraine support package | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site
Russia-Ukraine war: Hawkei armoured vehicles bound for front lines in Australian support deal (smh.com.au)
Australian light-armoured tactical vehicles to be rolled as Ukraine support package | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site
vikingatespam
Well-Known Member
If a deliberate action on the RU part, there should be consequences for this. This will cause massive ecological and civilian damage as possible downstream consequences for the Zap. nuclear plants.
I cant wait for the RU trolls on other forums to claim UKR did this.
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant's on the edge of the lake, upstream of the the dam. It gets cooling water from the lake for both the reactors & spent fuel pools. A reduction in water level could cause problems.
It's currently under Russian control. It was shut down some months ago. I don't know where the electricity for keeping all the cooling etc, going comes from now.
It's already been reported that the reducing water level is affecting the water supply to Crimea & the occupied parts of Kherson oblast via the North Crimean Canal.
It's currently under Russian control. It was shut down some months ago. I don't know where the electricity for keeping all the cooling etc, going comes from now.
It's already been reported that the reducing water level is affecting the water supply to Crimea & the occupied parts of Kherson oblast via the North Crimean Canal.
This is not the first time that a dam was blown up here seems a similar intent
Ukrainian Activists Draw Attention To Little-Known WWII Tragedy (rferl.org)
Ukrainian Activists Draw Attention To Little-Known WWII Tragedy (rferl.org)
Capt. Ironpants
Active Member
When this first came to light on social media, of course it took a while for the wires to pick it up and carry the story. I wondered, as always, whether it was for real or not. Anyway, in the meantime, there were still lots of earlier news stories to be found on the googles about the dam and the implications if it collapsed after being damaged back in October.
There was an interesting story in the Washington Post explaining how the Ukrainians were able to partially damage the dam to interdict Russian troop and supply movements across the bridges in October, but it is behind a paywall. This biased pro-Russian Lebanese media outlet reported on that WaPo article here:
english.almayadeen.net
The pro-Ukraine pro-US/NATO WaPo story here (behind paywall):
I am not a subscriber and had to check out the WaPo story via the Internet Archive and found Ukrainian Major General Andriy Kovalchuk's quotes were copied correctly from the WaPo article (otherwise, the two articles have a very different spin, of course). I don't know whether links to the Internet Archive are allowed here. If so, and anyone interested, I can provide a working link to the old WaPo article.
Since October, there have been speculations in the media about damage to the dam and implications, even from a few weeks ago. Older stories are much harder to find now, of course, and, as usual, lots of propaganda and accusations flying from both sides.
There was an interesting story in the Washington Post explaining how the Ukrainians were able to partially damage the dam to interdict Russian troop and supply movements across the bridges in October, but it is behind a paywall. This biased pro-Russian Lebanese media outlet reported on that WaPo article here:
Ukraine considered destroying Nova Kakhovka dam: WaPo
The Ukrainian armed forces were considering flooding the Nova Kakhocka dam situated on the banks of the Dnieper river as a "last resort" during the Kherson offensive.
english.almayadeen.net
The pro-Ukraine pro-US/NATO WaPo story here (behind paywall):
I am not a subscriber and had to check out the WaPo story via the Internet Archive and found Ukrainian Major General Andriy Kovalchuk's quotes were copied correctly from the WaPo article (otherwise, the two articles have a very different spin, of course). I don't know whether links to the Internet Archive are allowed here. If so, and anyone interested, I can provide a working link to the old WaPo article.
Since October, there have been speculations in the media about damage to the dam and implications, even from a few weeks ago. Older stories are much harder to find now, of course, and, as usual, lots of propaganda and accusations flying from both sides.
Kahovskaya Dam Update
Military observer thinks that Russia was using the cranes on the dam to do a controlled discharge of water that would have flooded the islands but not done much else and a Ukrainian strike hit the cranes, causing an uncontrolled discharge that subsequently destroyed the dam.
vk.com
Another version though suggests that the damage was not sudden, showing gradual destruction from a few days before the final dam failure. The dam was hit by repeated HIMARS and artillery strikes to damage the crossing so it's possible this was just a cumulative effect of the fighting.
vk.com
The flooding is spreading, including the town of Novaya Kahovka, the town of Aleshki, and many of the islands in the Dnepr. The water level is expected to go down after a few days. Evacuation of civilians is in progress.
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vk.com
vk.com
vk.com
Lower sections of Kherson itself are also experiencing flooding.
vk.com
Footage of the dam before and after.
t.me
vk.com
A road used by Russian forces has also flooded.
t.me
Russian forces practically swimming out of the flooded area.
vk.com
Russian artillery fires against Ukrainian forces evacuating the islands.
vk.com
A supposed map of Russian fortifications in the flood zone.
t.me
Allegedly Russian mines detonating after getting washed out by the flood.
t.me
Military observer thinks that Russia was using the cranes on the dam to do a controlled discharge of water that would have flooded the islands but not done much else and a Ukrainian strike hit the cranes, causing an uncontrolled discharge that subsequently destroyed the dam.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
Another version though suggests that the damage was not sudden, showing gradual destruction from a few days before the final dam failure. The dam was hit by repeated HIMARS and artillery strikes to damage the crossing so it's possible this was just a cumulative effect of the fighting.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
The flooding is spreading, including the town of Novaya Kahovka, the town of Aleshki, and many of the islands in the Dnepr. The water level is expected to go down after a few days. Evacuation of civilians is in progress.
Colonelcassad
1. Разлив речки Кошевая рядом с Херсоном. 2. Затопление прибрежных районов Новой Каховки.
t.me
Colonelcassad
Вниз по течению Днепра уже и дома плывут с затопленных островков и прибрежных районов.
t.me
Colonelcassad
Кстати, когда разлив воды из Каховского водохранилища закончится и будут ясны границы подтопления, можно будет на практике оценить прошлогодние мотивировки связанные с отводом группировки ВС РФ с правого берега Днепра. PS. В центре Новой Каховки плавают лебеди. Как заявляют власти, через 3-4...
t.me
Colonelcassad
Один из островов к югу от Каховской ГЭС частично ушел под воду. Видео https://t.me/vosmerkaZ
t.me
Colonelcassad
1. Затопленный ДК в Новой Каховке. 2. Подтопленные островки к югу от Каховской ГЭС. 3. Подъем воды в районе Каховской ГЭС. PS. На обеих берегах Днепра сейчас проводятся эвакуационные мероприятия. В ближайшие недели сторонам предстоит изучать новые оперативно-тактические реалии после...
t.me
Colonelcassad
Подтопления в районе Новой Каховки. Также идет подтопление островов ниже по течению и частного сектора в районе Херсона.
t.me
VK.com | VK
vk.com
VK.com | VK
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VK.com | VK
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Lower sections of Kherson itself are also experiencing flooding.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
Footage of the dam before and after.
Colonelcassad
Каховская ГЭС. До и после. Стоит напомнить, что в 2017 году США целенаправленно разрушали Дамбу Табка в Сирии на Евфрате, что привело к затоплению удерживаемой ИГИЛ Ракки. США отрицали свою причастность к повреждению дамбы.
t.me
VK.com | VK
vk.com
A road used by Russian forces has also flooded.
Colonelcassad
Утренние кадры снятые в районе Голой Пристани. Наши военные катят по заливаемой водой дороге.
t.me
Russian forces practically swimming out of the flooded area.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
Russian artillery fires against Ukrainian forces evacuating the islands.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
A supposed map of Russian fortifications in the flood zone.
Moscow calling
Предположительная карта затопленных территорий Херсонской области. Помимо значительной части Херсона и других городов, в неё попадают и созданные РФ линии обороны на левом берегу. А это значит, когла через неделю-другую уровень воды начнёт спадать, эти участки окажутся "голыми" для возможного...
t.me
Allegedly Russian mines detonating after getting washed out by the flood.
Рыбарь
Очевидцы выкладывают в Сеть кадры детонации мин, которые течением воды вынесло на берег Днепра. Местные власти уже подтвердили размыв минных полей потоками воды. Одновременно с этим продолжается эвакуация населения: на безопасном отдалении от мест разлива реки создаются пункты временного...
t.me
Update on the Vrem'yevskiy Bulge.
This area has been the sight of some back and forth fighting. It seems to have gone beyond probing attacks. After the initially unsuccessful probing attacks, Ukraine committed additional forces and took the village of Novodonetskoe. Russian reportedly counter-attacked and retook the village. Ukraine is now attacking the village again, with the village itself contested. This is the area where Ukraine appears to have lost 3 AMX-10RCs, consistent with the 37th MarBde being reported in the area. The scale of the fighting is still relatively small, much smaller then Ukraine's fall attacks in Kherson region. I'm still of the opinion that this is an attempt to force Russia to pull their forces to the area, and to distract from a real blow landing elsewhere.
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This area has been the sight of some back and forth fighting. It seems to have gone beyond probing attacks. After the initially unsuccessful probing attacks, Ukraine committed additional forces and took the village of Novodonetskoe. Russian reportedly counter-attacked and retook the village. Ukraine is now attacking the village again, with the village itself contested. This is the area where Ukraine appears to have lost 3 AMX-10RCs, consistent with the 37th MarBde being reported in the area. The scale of the fighting is still relatively small, much smaller then Ukraine's fall attacks in Kherson region. I'm still of the opinion that this is an attempt to force Russia to pull their forces to the area, and to distract from a real blow landing elsewhere.
Рыбарь
❗️ Времьевский выступ обстановка по состоянию на 12.00 6 июня 2023 года На востоке от Времьевского выступа после потери Новодонецкого ВС РФ перегруппировались и отбили село. Штурмовые отряды морпехов за ночь зачистили Новодонецкое от присутствия украинских формирований. За два дня боёв...
t.me
Colonelcassad
Времьевский выступ обстановка по состоянию на 18.00 6 июня 2023 года После освобождения нашими войсками Новодонецкого и нескольких часов затишья ВСУ перегруппировались и начали новый штурм наших позиций в селе. Сейчас со стороны дамбы на северную окраину Новодонецкого зашли четыре украинских...
t.me
vikingatespam
Well-Known Member
Are there any past statements from RU officials stating they have mined the dam for explosion ? The internet Putin brigades are already in denial mode about the apparent RU destruction of the dam.
I don't believe so. I believe at this point it's unclear who if anyone blew the dam. Again it's also possible the dam failed due to neglect and battle damage from previous strikes.
EDIT: Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs is blaming Ukraine for the destruction of the dam.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
I am well aware of the definition. Thanks.
Politicizing the term is actually what using it the current environment does, and the denial of doing so just exemplifies it. There is no difference between this unit of the UA military and any other, in the broad sense. They are enlisted by the Ukrainian military, are on the Ukrainian military payroll, and are part of the Ukrainian military; they are not partisans or terrorists, as referred to by either side (politicizing). While Kiev declares them to be “Russian partisans” operating within Russian borders, insinuating that there is an uprising and fight against “the regime” in Russia, which is absurd and there is no such thing, currently. This unit is no different from Azov, for example, which some of the RVC members have been a part of or have ties to, or the Polish unit mentioned above.
Some terms have similar meanings but the subtle differences and the environment they are used in are purposefully meant to portray the situation that is significantly different from the reality. That’s politicizing and propaganda and should be avoided.
Neither does being born in Russia makes the members of the other group fighting inside Russia (sometimes, but mostly in Ukraine) any more partisans than the Poles. In fact, we don’t even know if all of them are, in fact, Russian, which isn’t relevant anyway.
Aside from both being part of the Ukrainian forces, another common thing between two units is both appear to primarily consist of neo-nazis (at least from my brief reads on the Polish unit). Like someone already mentioned, the more of these fellas end their road while “partisanning” or fighting in Ukraine, the better it is for the world, I guess.
vikingatespam
Well-Known Member
I don't believe so. I believe at this point it's unclear who if anyone blew the dam. Again it's also possible the dam failed due to neglect and battle damage from previous strikes.
EDIT: Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs is blaming Ukraine for the destruction of the dam.
Assuming the destruction was deliberate, I am unsure as how UKR could be responsible. RU was in control of the bridge for a year, and we have no reports of UKR air or missile activity in the area. Was there any activity at the dam, in terms of playing with water buildup and release that could be responsible ?
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
The Deputy Minister of Special Services of Poland says Poland isn’t (officially) involved:
I don’t think it changes much because I do not think there is any difference between the two units and it doesn’t matter whether they are Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, or someone else. But things are on the path of escalation nonetheless, in my opinion.
I have seen reports that there was a water buildup in the days immediately prior to the rupture. Note the Kahovskaya dam is one of 6 dams on the Dnepr and the other 5 are under Ukrainian control. There are some claims of a Ukrainian strike against the dam, but it's a bit murky.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Could be prior damage/destruction:
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
What are the thoughts on which side will benefit from this and how?
Edit: I am talking about fighting, of course.
Edit: I am talking about fighting, of course.
Apparently we have our first confirmed destruction of a PzH-2000. Someone with sharper eyes then me can hopefully take a look and confirm if the vehicle ID is correct. It's partially obscured by foliage so its hard to see but it looks like one. This is near Artemovsk/Bakhmut and we know for a fact some are engaged in that area.
t.me
Colonelcassad
Уничтожение немецкой САУ Panzerhaubitze 2000 в бою под Артёмовском На флангах Артёмовска (Бахмута) враг активно применяет артиллерию НАТО, наши войска ведут контрбатарейную борьбу. На днях артиллеристы отдельной гвардейской мотострелковой бригады Северного флота вступили в артиллерийскую дуэль...
t.me
Not Ukraine. It's a significant setback. Instead of a lake with clearly defined banks, & below that a river flowing between defined banks, there'll soon be 240 km of river with a sea of mud on each side, no roads, no wharves, & below that a river flowing through marshland. It'll be much harder to attack across it. It also destroys the road across the dam, which the Ukrainians might have hoped to capture & use as a crossing.
Aso, all the affected land is part of Ukraine, & is either under Ukrainian control or targeted for recovery by Ukraine. Putin obviously doesn't give a toss about damage to Ukraine, but the Ukrainians do. They live there.
vikingatespam
Well-Known Member
The flooding will render a crossing below very unlikely for some time (think of the issues of the Roer river crossing in Feb.1945). There will likely be wide plains of muddy terrain that wont dry out for a while. The dam road is of course gone. I think this helps RU prevent any serious crossing. It also forces UKR to make efforts on damage mitigation, and if forced to leave UKR entirely, serves as a final "f$ck you" to UKR.