The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

koxinga

Well-Known Member
The fact that Finland is now almost certain to join NATO means more Russian forces will have to be deployed along their border for a just in case moment means Russia is even more limited in what active forces they can field or deploy in Ukraine.
Not in the near term. Their focus is on the Ukrainian theater and will remain so in the foreseeable future.

I'll expect political and economic gestures in the short term (expelling diplomatic staff, sanctions, disruptions to cross border trade/movement, playing the energy card) and maybe some token military movements.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
The personnel and equipment wasted trying to take Kiev and Kharkov and even pushing beyond Kherson are all resources that would have been better utilized in their current percieved objectives. IMO the Russian strategy seems to have gone from aiming for the greatest objective and after wasting resources and personnel in the failure then lowering the standards but not having the resources or personnel for those lower standards because they were wasted on the impossible.
Soviet doctrine called for success to be reinforced; if failure was met in a certain sectors; resources would be shifted to areas where there was progress. Russian planning called for 3 thrusts [schwerpunkt/main point of effort] on widely separated axis; sound on paper/in theory. In reality the lack of resources plus the unexpected level of Ukrainian resistance resulted in failure; the Russians then forced to call off/abandon the thrust up north and focus on the east. Such a course of action was all they could realistically do.

IMO Russian strategy [3 separate simultaneous thrusts on Kiev, Kharkov and other areas] was sound but was let down by assumptions made by the political leadership; a lack of tactical proficiency amongst many units and a military that was not prepared for a strategic offensive of this scale. All these years the general expectation or assumption was that the wars Russia would be involved in would be non protracted and against a much weaker enemy.

Even if it becomes a dig in and hold strategy it still isn't a good one. It isn't a fixed well manned front line preventing any enemy encroachment; to which apparently Ukrainian forces have used to strike wel behind Russian lines (such as that tank that is claimed to have been taken out with an ATGM some 12km behind the lines, if my memory serves me).
May not be a good one but it may be it has to adopt out of sheer necessity and has advantages. The Russians will be in static positions on the defence; less challenging compared to waging an offensive/war of maneuver; arty will find it easier to hit preregistered targets rather than time sensitive/moving targets and the Russian air force would find it easier providing support to troops holding ground as opposed to on the move.

Given the Russian army is not the Soviet army but a lot of Russian doctrine is still based on Soviet era doctrine. Doctrine has it it that going on the defensive is a temporary measure until such a time when conditions are more ideal to go on the offensive in order to gain set objectives. Whether this will be the case here remains to be seen. As one of the speaker's in the video I posted said; there is strong possibility that Russia might be forced to abandon much of its gains; including even giving up Kherson. Doing so would place them on the defensive and would in turn create more challenges for the Ukrainians.
 
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Exonian

Member
I would think that some Russian units relatively well; it wasn't a case of every single unit being comprised on badly motivated and ill discipline troops.

As was mentioned in a video I posted previously; amidst all the mention of demoralised and ill trained Russian troops it's worth noting that there have not been mass surrenders or desertions [this time around they aren't NKVD troops in the rear waiting to use PPSHs on anyone retreating].
I am sure that is the case. However Russia will not have enough highly trained, well equipped, and well motivated units to be everywhere at once. The more that Ukraine can sow seeds of doubt in the mind among Russian units the better from the defence point of view.

edit - Of course Ukraine will suffer similar problems, motivation might not be such an issue, but they will be short of well experienced, well equipped units in the short term.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
However Russia will not have enough highly trained, well equipped, and well motivated units to be everywhere at once.
Granted but if indeed Russia is forced to go on the defensive its troops don't have to be everywhere; just mainly concentrated on a few specific areas.

In the long run the issue of manpower might also be a problem for the Ukrainians. They've already fully mobilised and call up most of their manpower and only so many foreign volunteers are available.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
Granted but if indeed Russia is forced to go on the defensive its troops don't have to be everywhere; just mainly concentrated on a few specific areas.

In the long run the issue of manpower might also be a problem for the Ukrainians. They've already fully mobilised and call up most of their manpower and only so many foreign volunteers are available.

Given the new Western 155mm systems flowing into UKR with RAP ranges in the 40-50km range static defensive positions would be extremely vulnerable to precision strikes and IMO untenable. Growing western SAM deliveries would also work to thwart VKS efforts to target these new systems
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I agree. On the surface almost everything seems to be in Ukraine's favour. They are fully mobilised; morale is sky high; they have the full support of NATO and much of the international community and they've won the information war. The Russians on the other hand are bogged down; not fully mobilised and are weakened politically/diplomatically, militarily and economically.

The Russians however can respond and they can innovate [history clearly shows this]. Against long range Western supplied artillery they can rely on long range MLRSs and IRBMs; it will be a two way street; the Russians won't be completely defenceless or unable to respond. If they go on a wide offensive the Ukrainians will be more vulnerable and their command/control and logistics will come under greater strain compared to when they were mainly on the defensive.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
That requires successful Russian offensives & the capture of at least one more big city. Since capturing Kherson early on, the only city of any size they've captured is Mariupol, and that was the only city they've attacked which was completely cut off from help. It took them three months with massive material & numerical superiority, far more than they could muster for an attack on Zaporizhzhia. It's twice the size of Mariupol, & difficult to isolate. It'd be a meatgrinder for the Russian army.
I think this is the big question. It seems highly likely that Severodonetsk and Lisichansk are going to fall, and quite plausible that Kramatorsk-Slavyansk are next. Those are doable, though not guaranteed at this point. But then what? Unless the Ukrainian military starts to crumble from an organizational level, and this isn't impossible between the major losses of men and materiel, Russia will have many more uphill battles to fight.

I think they're more likely to try to hang on to the parts of Zaporizhzhia oblast they already hold & focus on the east. And even there, their attempts to seize all of Donetsk & Luhansk oblasts are struggling. Consider the recent river crossing attempt. They only tried it because other lines of attack had been blocked. And the Ukrainians have been whittling away the northern arm of the big pincer movement the Russians've been trying.
The real "whittling" has come to the front line north of Kharkov. This is the first successful Ukrainian counteroffensive, beyond local battles, and it has operational implications for the Russian push. I suspect Russia will have to deploy fresh forces to the Kharkov front line. Some sources on the Russian side have already speculated that Ukraine had excellentintel, striking the lines shortly afterline Russian units were sent towards Izyum, and LNR reservist units were put in their place, in an attmept to "hold the line". It does appear that two LNR reservist regiments (or rather elements of) were involved in the fighting there though it's hard to be certain how much of a difference this has made.
 

kefalo84

New Member
Hi,

To those who know more about this than me, does Russia have the resources to mount an Odessa assault? From what I can see so far, the frontline is stalled somewhere in the Kherson-Mikolayev area?? Idk if the Russians stalled to wrap up Mariupol or if the Ukrainians made the stop.

I’m any case; I wondered if the Russian priority now would be to finish Dombas and call it a day or if they have the resources to continue the campaign in Donbas and Oddesa simultaneously.

I’m waiting for confirmation from Feanor. I’ve been trying to read Russian telegram channels, but it’s been hard. There is a talk(from my limited understanding) of a failed Ukrainian offensive near “Gulyai Pole,” but I haven’t seen any photos/videos to confirm.

The telegram channel is also talking about the near encirclement at Slavyansk. They are claiming 15-17k troops. Again, this is a poor transition and I hope Feanor would clear up the fog of war so to speak?? Idk if the Ukrainians are holding good, or if the lines are starting to break.
 
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kefalo84

New Member
I think this is the big question. It seems highly likely that Severodonetsk and Lisichansk are going to fall, and quite plausible that Kramatorsk-Slavyansk are next. Those are doable, though not guaranteed at this point. But then what? Unless the Ukrainian military starts to crumble from an organizational level, and this isn't impossible between the major losses of men and materiel, Russia will have many more uphill battles to fight.



The real "whittling" has come to the front line north of Kharkov. This is the first successful Ukrainian counteroffensive, beyond local battles, and it has operational implications for the Russian push. I suspect Russia will have to deploy fresh forces to the Kharkov front line. Some sources on the Russian side have already speculated that Ukraine had excellentintel, striking the lines shortly afterline Russian units were sent towards Izyum, and LNR reservist units were put in their place, in an attmept to "hold the line". It does appear that two LNR reservist regiments (or rather elements of) were involved in the fighting there though it's hard to be certain how much of a difference this has made.
Answered a lot of my questions!! I made the post before I saw yours! Thank you.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi,

To those who know more about this than me, does Russia have the resources to mount an Odessa assault? From what I can see so far, the frontline is stalled somewhere in the Kherson-Mikolayev area?? Idk if the Russians stalled to wrap up Mariupol or if the Ukrainians made the stop.

I’m any case; I wondered if the Russian priority now would be to finish Dombas and call it a day or if they have the resources to continue the campaign in Donbas and Oddesa simultaneously.
In my opinion any push on Odessa would have to come after an victory in the Donbas. Russia is currently tying down some Ukrainian forces through the fighting that's going on in that area, that's probably about it.

I’m waiting for confirmation from Feanor. I’ve been trying to read Russian telegram channels, but it’s been hard. There is a talk(from my limited understanding) of a failed Ukrainian offensive near “Gulyai Pole,” but I haven’t seen any photos/videos to confirm.
The telegram channel is also talking about the near encirclement at Slavyansk. They are claiming 15-17k troops. Again, this is a poor transition and I hope Feanor would clear up the fog of war so to speak?? Idk if the Ukrainians are holding good, or if the lines are starting to break.
The near encirclement is around the Severodonetsk-Lisichansk area, with one pincer coming out of Yampol', and other out of Popasnaya, in theory. But in reality it will depend on where Russia can gain ground. Note that the pincer out of Izyum stalled, as did the one near Velikaya Novoselka. They were aimed at a much more ambitious encirclement that simply failed. Now a much smaller one is being attempted. There are also continued probing attacks around Ugledar, Gulyaypole, Velikaya Novoselka, Mari'inka, Avdeevka, and the Izyum Salient. If any of those probing attacks succeed, they will likely be exploited and a new pincer would form.

Map for illustration. Accuracy as always is suspect.

 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Even if they do manage to pocket some forces there is no guarantee they can actually maintain the pocket. Go back to WWII and one of the largest Soviet offensives pocketed large numbers of troops but failed to have an adequate force around them and a good number made it back to their own lines or even more recent around 2014-15 if memory serves Russian forces pocketed a Ukranian force that simply abandoned their heavy equipment and snuck back to their own lines.

Or even failing that just the sheer amount of men and equipment that pocket could tie up could negate any advantage from such a move.

Pocketing a force does not equal a win if you have neither the force to maintain and shrink the pocket or if it hurts the forces and equipment you can have deployed to your front lines.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
An interview with an army Capt on the battles in Ukraine; he has since died in battle. Capt. Kiselov and his men played a crucial role in the battle for Hostomel Airport, near Kyiv, in the first hours of the war. Ukrainian forces thwarted Russia’s plan to use Hostomel to land a large force and rapidly seize the capital. If Russia had successfully secured the airfield, it would have opened up an incredibly significant air bridge on the outskirts of Kyiv.

By some accounts, Russia had intended to land 18-20 Ilyushin IL-76 transport planes at the Hostomel airfield invasion’s opening hours. An aerial convoy this size could have potentially brought 2 BTGs worth of troops and equipment to the capital’s doorstep.

Capt. Kiselov died three weeks after he anonymously shared his worries with The Globe about the next phase of the war. He feared it would be more dangerous – unless the West expedited the delivery of the long-range artillery Ukraine at that time lacked. There is a human cost to delays in providing heavy weapons badly needed by Ukraine.

In other news, on 18 May 2022, the official application letters to join NATO for Finland and Sweden, are submitted.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It looks like Azovstal' might be done. Allegedly we have ~1000 surrendered now, with more groups planned. Pushlin, head of the DNR, stated that some of the surrendered fighters will be put on trial due to their involvement in alleged crimes. Based on some of the statements surrounding this, I think we have a multi-track process. Those being treated as regular POWs I believe are being taken to an emptied out prison colony in Russia that's being used to hold POWs. They will likely either get exchanged or released at the end of the war. But those being considered as "criminals" are being held in the DNR and will quite likely be put on some sort of public trial as part of the "denazification" that Russia has been talking about. What this means in practice remains to be seen. In the past I have seen reports that rebel forces execute voluteer fighters from formations associated with right wing extremism instead of taking them prisoner (this was the '14-'15 war), and I don't have high hopes for due process if this does go down the road of a trial. At this time it appears Ukraine's claim that this is some sort of negotiated evacuation/exchange was just spin, though I guess time will tell. And it's definitely not just wounded personnel.

 

kefalo84

New Member
I have seen pro-russian sources claiming that small groups ukranian soldiers are refusing to fight due to lack of reinforcement and equipment in severodonesk. Here is a video, can somebody provide some insight regarding if there is any truth in this?

Gotta wait for Feanor. From what I’ve seen, they are nearly surrounded, and the fighting in the city has began. I think one of the Chechen detachments is there. I’ve noticed they love to use them for urban combat.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Gotta wait for Feanor. From what I’ve seen, they are nearly surrounded, and the fighting in the city has began. I think one of the Chechen detachments is there. I’ve noticed they love to use them for urban combat.
If the same You-Tube video is accurate in its translation then its
“We refuse to carry out combat missions because we do not have reinforcements from behind. No heavy equipment. We have been waiting for reinforcements for two weeks, but there is none. We are being sent to certain death. The command is missing. There is no technology and respect for people. We do not refuse to defend Ukraine, but in such conditions we refuse to carry out combat missions!”
Also unlike much of social media its not the 115th Brigade, Its a single platoon in the 3rd Battlion of the 115th Brigade and the way I interprete the statement is more along the lines they just wont be going on the attack anymore.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Might be a time to put the JHSV through its paces, load up with everything we have in reserve (due to be retired or excess to needs) and hard charge it to the closest friendly port and final delivery via rail. Should be able to deliver to Italy 600 odd tons in around 2 weeks leaving from Townsville even accounting for the 8 to 9 at sea replenishments.
 
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