The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Will watch later. No wonder the BAE exec was so evasive during the first round when he was asked about when they could begin cutting steel, only 60% completion on the design is very disappointing news.
Hardly surprising, the Australianised F-100 is an F-104 with some F-105 and RAN specific features, yet when I left the project the design baseline still had not been frozen. This wasn't Australian changes this was updates being received from Navantia to fix obsolescence issues and worse, design issues that had been individually addressed on each of the Spanish built ships but never captured and changed on the design.

The Type 26 is a clean sheet design, after a three decade break in frigate design that is being pulled in multiple directions. The government expects a fault free build delivered ahead of an imaginary, overly optimistic schedule, and below an insufficient budget. The RN wants the most capability, flexibility and performance they can get as they don't know how long the ships will have to serve or even the missions they will have to fill, they are not even sure how many they will get as numbers have already dropped from thirteen to eight and considering what happened with the Darings, is a final total of six really out of the question? Then there is the commercial pressure to make a profit, irrespective of what the RN or Government want or need.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Yes, it is a familiar story with many navies, they want ships with lots of capability, upgrade potential and with a defined ship shelf life. Governments want the first two and rarely commit on the third and generally are unrealistic with funding. The frigate programs for the RN, RCN, and RAN will all likely see fewer build numbers.:shudder:(
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is a familiar story with many navies, they want ships with lots of capability, upgrade potential and with a defined ship shelf life. Governments want the first two and rarely commit on the third and generally are unrealistic with funding. The frigate programs for the RN, RCN, and RAN will all likely see fewer build numbers.:shudder:(
I'm not as worried for the RAN, With Turnbull g etting back in and being in a stronger position politically then before he will likely be able to get contracts signed and we aren't as picky with what we want, Pretty much a working frigate that we can add a few of our own toys towards, it's not the ground up design with FUBAR politics of the UK or.. No words to describe it.. but .. Canada (no offence).

They stuffed up by cutting the Type 45 orders, Could have still being building them today while designing the Type 26.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't believe the RAN will have any issues getting a total of 9 new frigates into the water. Its apparently fully costed and bipartisan supported.

It would not surprise me if Australia ends up building more ships off the Type 26 hull than the UK. It may end up Australia builds more ships of the Spanish F-105 design than Spain has, more Barracudas than France has committed to build, we already have more LHD's than Spain has.

I think the Type 26 is very much a future project at this stage. I think the RAN is interested, but for the future.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Quite a nice big ding on the conning tower, looks pretty expensive, not something that will just buff out.

Royal Navy Submarine Collides with Merchant Ship
Ambush's CO's promotion chances have just taken a big dive (excuse the pun). He will be court martialled for endangering his ship, or careless use, or whatever the Admiralty decide. It's automatic and even if he wasn't on board at the time he is still court martialled because it's his ship and he's responsible.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
When they refer to 60% complete does this mean they have settled on a hull design but are just moving things about for weapons and so fourth or they have settled on a weapons fitout but have not got a finalized hull form size and displacement?


Edit,
Not sure if this is the answer I'm looking for but close enough.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Type26ProgDir/status/756043923664072704
This could be the reason. According to Janes 360 the UK is hollowing out its conventional forces to pay for the Successor SSBNs.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Doubt it - they've disbursed a couple of billion in change on PWR3, CMC etc plus they bought the steel for Successor about four or five years ago. Successor will bite but it's not a drain on the cash yet.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ambush's CO's promotion chances have just taken a big dive (excuse the pun). He will be court martialled for endangering his ship, or careless use, or whatever the Admiralty decide. It's automatic and even if he wasn't on board at the time he is still court martialled because it's his ship and he's responsible.
Apparently doing Perisher - not sure how that sits, if it's on Teacher, the skipper or the bloke in charge at the time.

A court martial is just there to work out if anything went wrong that was avoidable - more than one Captain has been through the mill and gone on to greater things.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Apparently doing Perisher - not sure how that sits, if it's on Teacher, the skipper or the bloke in charge at the time.

A court martial is just there to work out if anything went wrong that was avoidable - more than one Captain has been through the mill and gone on to greater things.
Ah, might be to of them before the board then :D Will be interesting proceedings. Yes I am aware of how it works being ex pusser myself. Didn't know there was a Perisher course on board at the time. Teacher will definitely be unimpressed because this will have generated a significant amount of extra paperwork for him and the CO.
 

CdnDefWriter

New Member
Oh, you can do that pretty well with a smaller ship - but you do it by not including any war fighting stuff, like missiles, sonar with any pretensions of ASW capability, etc.
Unfortunately, as per the latest Gp FF brief on the Ihs Jane's site, it seems a smaller local-design ship for T31 is the preferred route. As a bystander, the larger T26 design with space to grow would seem a logical choice for a lower-end navy that may not have the funds to buy it 'fully-equipped', you just add the capabilities you can afford later to the fullest possible extent, but I guess the accountants are running the show as usual.

"The idea of a 'pared down' Type 26 was mooted at an early stage, but has latterly garnered less attention. Time and cost work against this option, and it would necessarily still be a large and largely 'unexportable' design.

Hence, the spotlight has fallen on variants or derivations of export designs that UK companies have in development or have already built. BAE Systems Naval Ships and BMT Defence Services have both - under their own resources - worked to develop MOTS concepts which map onto the broad GPFF 'solution space'.

BAE Systems has over the last six months developed two different ship concepts - extrapolated from the Amazonas-class/River-class Batch 2 (RCB2) OPV and the Project Khareef corvette - that plot different datums on the cost/capability curve. In both cases the company has sought to grow and modify its existing MOTS designs while retaining much of the existing detailed design.

The lower-end concept, known as Avenger is essentially a Batch 3 River class. While drawing on the design pedigree of the commercially-based RCB2, the 111 m Avenger embodies improved survivability (being designed to more stringent naval standards and introducing greater redundancy in machinery arrangements), an enhanced combat system, improved aviation facilities, and an air weapon magazine.

At the higher end of the cost/capability curve, Cutlass is a significantly stretched and enhanced derivation of the 99 m Al Shamikh-class corvette design, three of which were previously built by BAE Systems for the Royal Navy of Oman (RNO) under Project Khareef. The Cutlass concept design developed with GPFF in mind is, at 117 m, a somewhat larger ship than that built for the RNO, incorporating a 15 m mid-hull stretch, and an additional 3 m on the transom. Cutlass would additionally offer improved resilience and survivability, a more extensive combat system, a higher power electric drive system, replenishment at sea points on either beam, a full NBCD citadel, and space amidships to embark special forces' boats and equipment."
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Scuttle butt is that the fit and finish wasn't up to snuff, and that with hindsight, they'd have saved themselves a lot of rectification work by getting the Korean yard to deliver them in a less complete condition.

Sounded like a lot of stuff to do with routing of supply and power etc.
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
Well there goes another RFA ship.
No more fwd aviation repairs.
Guess the Refit Completed March 2015 didn't go so well. :drunk1
That was a major refit they did, they replaced almost all the lighting for example. I'm surprised they went to the effort if they're selling her.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
That was a major refit they did, they replaced almost all the lighting for example. I'm surprised they went to the effort if they're selling her.
Actually the 2015 refit was a general one, Not major. Last major refit took place in 2007 and since then off minor and general refits have occured.

As to why she is going, well from what I can find between a lack of money and a lack of crew just made the case for them. As it is it was only intended to be kept out till 2020 so cutting its life by 3 - 4 years is not a major issue, There was never any garauntee that it would be replaced anyway so if money saved can be funneled into far more needed projects all the better.

Still, was a great ship that when the situation allows for it should be replaced, Wouldnt mind Australia getting something like that as well (or something like the HMAS Stalwart again :p)
 
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