The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[overlander]

again rumours of cuts and delays/cancellation of cvf

as is well known the sucessor of tony blair mr. gordon brown is not the best supporter of the armed forces and rumours say that the delay of next step in the approval of cvf is simply because they are waiting that mr. brown arrives to downing street and the problem is that probably or they cancel the cvf project of if they go ahead with it it will be with the cost of another heavy reduction in the number of R.N. ships.

 

[Jambo_100]

the royal navy diserves more!

the RN is suffering greatly because of cuts. the T45 destroyers have been reduced from 12 down to 6. im aware only 9 astutes are to be built, thats from 16 subs that are supposed to be in the RN. and luckly the government voted to save the trident. the trident will be updated but the new subs which are to hold the missiles are no doubt gonna be rubbish. according to one high ranking naval guy, "even the dutch have a better navy than ours, the RN is no more than a coastal defence force" or something along those lines.

The RN was second only to the US navy, but now its going down the pan.

 

[Tasman]

the RN is suffering greatly because of cuts. the T45 destroyers have been reduced from 12 down to 6. im aware only 9 astutes are to be built, thats from 16 subs that are supposed to be in the RN. and luckly the government voted to save the trident. the trident will be updated but the new subs which are to hold the missiles are no doubt gonna be rubbish. according to one high ranking naval guy, "even the dutch have a better navy than ours, the RN is no more than a coastal defence force" or something along those lines.

The RN was second only to the US navy, but now its going down the pan.

Whilst you are certainly correct about the RN declining in numbers I think that the statement by a 'high ranking naval guy' that the Dutch have a better navy than the RN, is total rubbish. Just for starters the Dutch have no carriers and no nuclear submarines. Whilst it has these assets and a capable amphibious force, the RN will remain one of the few navies capable of power projection anywhere in the world.

Cheers

 

[Manfred]

How much power?

After the way Iran made Britain jump through hoops, the world wonders...

 

[Tasman]

How much power?

After the way Iran made Britain jump through hoops, the world wonders...

The power is admittedly limited but it is greater, IMO, than the Dutch navy or any other European navy, for that matter, with the possible exception of the French!


Cheers

 

[Jambo_100]

Rn

im sorry its not the dutch that are more powerful than ours, its belgium. i looked it up on the net, it was the first sea lord or something that proved it. what annoys me is that the french have a more powerful navy than us! we used to be second only to the USN. our navy still has the second best power projection in the world but only just. i wish a prime minister who supports the armed forces would take over from tony blair. at the moment its that scumbag gordan brown. we still have the most advanced warship in the world though, HMS daring.

 

[type45]

Well there may be light at the end of the tunnel. John Reid is seriously considering challenging for the leadership. When he was Defence Minister for a while he did an ok job and seems to be rather pro-military and pro-navy. He doesnt seem perfect of course but i think hes the best we could hope for. He at least stands up for the forces. Better than the current defence minister Des Browne who never seems to talk or kick up a fuss over anything.

 

[Jambo_100]

navy

it is a real shame to see our navy fade away. i hope that other guy does become prime minister. he may have a chance because according to a survey over half of brits dont think gordan brown is capable of leading the country. everything about him irritates me. he always opens his mouth after every sentence he says, it makes him look like a fish. look out for that next time you see him on TV.

anyway, the type 45 destroyer is quite impressive, it can also be used to take out ballistic missiles. according to the government, the T45 is capable of having harpoon anti ship missiles and tomahawk cruise missiles. however they wont be fitted. the government will consider fitting them if the extra weapons are needed on a certain mission or task.

get a load of this

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/imagesbig/t45-bmd.jpg

 

[Tasman]

it is a real shame to see our navy fade away. i hope that other guy does become prime minister. he may have a chance because according to a survey over half of brits dont think gordan brown is capable of leading the country. everything about him irritates me. he always opens his mouth after every sentence he says, it makes him look like a fish. look out for that next time you see him on TV.

anyway, the type 45 destroyer is quite impressive, it can also be used to take out ballistic missiles. according to the government, the T45 is capable of having harpoon anti ship missiles and tomahawk cruise missiles. however they wont be fitted. the government will consider fitting them if the extra weapons are needed on a certain mission or task.

get a load of this

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/imagesbig/t45-bmd.jpg

The Type 45s will certainly be an excellent addition. I'm surprised that they will not carry at least the Harpoon as a standard fit. I guess this is another case of the infamous "fitted for but not with" policy to save money. The trouble is that the ship may already be on deployment and away from where the fitting can take place when a conflict breaks out. This is a policy that has bedevilled the Australian Navy and it is only now, and after numerous operational deployments, that its latest warships (Anzac class frigates) are being fully equipped with Harpoon and other advanced weapons. Hopefully the financial strings will loosen so that both Harpoon and Tomahawk will be fitted.

Cheers

 

[tphuang]

The Type 45s will certainly be an excellent addition. I'm surprised that they will not carry at least the Harpoon as a standard fit. I guess this is another case of the infamous "fitted for but not with" policy to save money. The trouble is that the ship may already be on deployment and away from where the fitting can take place when a conflict breaks out. This is a policy that has bedevilled the Australian Navy and it is only now, and after numerous operational deployments, that its latest warships (Anzac class frigates) are being fully equipped with Harpoon and other advanced weapons. Hopefully the financial strings will loosen so that both Harpoon and Tomahawk will be fitted.

Cheers

hmm, if Aster 15/30 have anti-shipping capability, then that's not a problem. Instead of thinking of carrying Harpoon, they should add land attack capability to it with naval SCALP. And once the number of VLS cells go up to 64, that really addresses a lot of the criticism thrown at it.

 

[Tasman]

hmm, if Aster 15/30 have anti-shipping capability, then that's not a problem. Instead of thinking of carrying Harpoon, they should add land attack capability to it with naval SCALP. And once the number of VLS cells go up to 64, that really addresses a lot of the criticism thrown at it.

I know that older SAM systems like Sea Dart and Standard SM-1 have some anti shipping potential but I have always been under the impression that this was not comparable to a dedicated anti shipping missile like Harpoon and that it has really been seen as an emergency capability. I was also unaware that Aster 15/30 has an anti shipping capability. How capable is Aster 15 or 30 in this role?

Cheers

 

[Super Nimrod]

If it has got an anti-ship capability then it can't be much of one as you need big warheads in that role and anti-air weapons are usually only about a tenth of the size. I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere that such a capability exists.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Aster does not have an anti-shipping capability.

As has been said in the past, the Darings can be fitted with Harpoon quite easily as all the "hard work" (wiring, etc) is in place - it just requires the launchers to be added.

 

[Big-E]

Actually yes, the most likely winner of the Presidential elections (Sarkozy) has clearly stated that a 2nd carrier will be built fullstop.

What happens if the lovely Ségolène Royal wins?

 

[Big-E]

im sorry its not the dutch that are more powerful than ours, its belgium. i looked it up on the net, it was the first sea lord or something that proved it. what annoys me is that the french have a more powerful navy than us! we used to be second only to the USN. our navy still has the second best power projection in the world but only just. i wish a prime minister who supports the armed forces would take over from tony blair. at the moment its that scumbag gordan brown. we still have the most advanced warship in the world though, HMS daring.

It won't be long until India leaves you in her dust. Is the Daring the most advanced warship in the world? Flight II/A DDG-80+ are pretty advanced.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

It won't be long until India leaves you in her dust.

I doubt that very much.

 

[Jambo_100]

HMS daring

It won't be long until India leaves you in her dust. Is the Daring the most advanced warship in the world? Flight II/A DDG-80+ are pretty advanced.

those other ships you spoke of probably are "pretty advanced" but the T45 destroyers are THE most advanced warships in the world. shame the're not in service yet. HMS daring will enter service in 2009 along with one of the new "astute class" submarines called HMS astute.

the radar carried by the T45s can track every plane taking off or landing in every major airport in europe. the PAAMS system can track and destory a cricket ball travelling at 3 times the speed of sound!

the crews quaters also have internet access, digital radio, ipod stations and TVs! (i know this isnt important but i thought it was cool : )

these ships will remain the best in the world until the americans build the DDX class destroyer. (if the project officially goes ahead)

 

[overlander]

only cuts and news about died soldiers

long time ago the main news about the british armed forces are only cuts and news about died soldiers in irak and afghanistan, any new important equipment, cuts in fighters, tanks and ships and no more, sadly

 

[gf0012-aust]

HMS daring will enter service in 2009 along with one of the new "astute class" submarines called HMS astute.

well, without meaning to put too much of a dent in your enthusiasm and patriotism.

the UK sub building capability has taken a huge hammering - to such an extent that they had to call in the cousins to assist in the build. UK sub building has been depleted that much that they needed to call in NG for support.

I remember it distinctly as an Underwater Warfare Tech conference I attended used the decline and problems of the UK ship building industry as an example of how capability can decline when successive govts fail to support critical industries.

In fact the problems with the UK military shipbuilding sector were so dangerously depleted that a briefing was provided to Congress as a warning of what the US could face if they were caught in the same congressional path of "diminished financial committment". That same report was also provided to Australia as a warning ( a bit too late anyway for us in a lot of areas )

 

[Waylander]

Another problem could be that SSNs traditionally are no exports.
I don't see a new class of SSNs coming soon after the astute program will be completed.
But the UK shipbuilders virtually withdrew from the SSK market and so I don't see them getting any contracts be it for national projects or for exports after the astutes and future SSBNs are completed and so they risk to fade away when it comes to sub building capabilities.