The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

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Gladius

New Member
type45 said:
I often worry about Gibraltar. Get a dictator or a strong government in spain and an invasion of Gibraltar may not be far off. I think we could probably match and beat the capabilities of spain who atm have only 1 aircraft carrier. But i do worry about the future of this colony.
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:eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl:

Spain, our Spain, invading Gibraltar... You are serious?????? :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl:

We have a solid Democracy on Spain, with a King survivor of three Coup attempts after the end of Franco regime. Expansionist ambitions are a far-fetched dream on this country.

Please seek more realistic reasons to support the need of a strong Royan Navy for the 21st Century: like the Global Terror War, the global interest of the UK and the Commonwealth, the fight against the maritime Drug Traffic, or if you want, the territorial disputes with unstable countries of South America, etc...

The issue with Gibraltar will be resolved by the political way, not by "manu-militari" solutions.

We are allies, not enemies.
 
Tasman

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Gladius said:
:eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl:

Spain, our Spain, invading Gibraltar... You are serious?????? :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl: :eek:nfloorl:

We have a solid Democracy on Spain, with a King survivor of three Coup attempts after the end of Franco regime. Expansionist ambitions are a far-fetched dream on this country.

Please seek more realistic reasons to support the need of a strong Royan Navy for the 21st Century: like the Global Terror War, the global interest of the UK and the Commonwealth, the fight against the maritime Drug Traffic, or if you want, the territorial disputes with unstable countries of South America, etc...

The issue with Gibraltar will be resolved by the political way, not by "manu-militari" solutions.

We are allies, not enemies.
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I couldn't agree more Gladius.

IMO Spain is a leading player in the war against global terrorism, and I see it as a strong western ally. The RN could and should benefit from working in close co-operation with the Spanish Navy, together with other European navies like those of The Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. Political issues like Gibraltar should not be allowed to get in the way of a productive partnership between the UK and Spain and I don't believe they will.

Cheers
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I mean if you are afraid of Spain you should be very afraid about your Army of the Rhine with us rolling over europe again next year. :D ;)
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
riksavage said:
Out of the doom and gloom, a spot of good news – the second T45 launched
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It would be good news if there were going to be 8 T-45s. But we've still only got orders for the first 3 and partial orders for the next 3 - 7 & 8 are still in limbo, maybe cancelled.
 
W

Whiskyjack

Honorary Moderator / Defense Professional / Analys
Verified Defense Pro
Musashi_kenshin said:
It would be good news if there were going to be 8 T-45s. But we've still only got orders for the first 3 and partial orders for the next 3 - 7 & 8 are still in limbo, maybe cancelled.
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If reports are true so may 5 & 6!
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Padfoot said:
Source?

I believe that the first steel has been cut for HMS Duncan, the 6th Type 45 ordered.
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But neither have been fully ordered - only the hulls (which are relatively cheap). There's talk that they'd be resold to BAE, who would then fit them out for Saudi Arabia.

They are just rumours, but the government has been repeatedly putting off even cutting steal on #6, not to mention paying for the rest of Batch 2 and playing the final two orders. That doesn't bode well for the project.
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
To what extent are we sure that SAMPSON radar problems aren't also pushing the British MOD to requestion ordering so many Type 45s right now ? Couldn't they be priorizing Astute and (hopefully) the Queen Elizabeth carriers while waiting to clarify number of T45s ordered once all problems are solved on the ships already building ?

cheers
 
T

type45

New Member
I wouldnt have thought so but possibly i suppose. I would have thought they would build them all together to keep the production line going, making fewer costs.
 
P

Padfoot

New Member
Super Nimrod said:
Padfoot, I guess you Didn't read the UK newspapers a couple of weeks ago ? They were full of such speculation :(
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Mate, I saw all the speculation in the British press, I just don't believe one word I read in most British newspapers. When they start comparing the RN with the navy of a country with a defence budget 1/25th the size of Britain's, you know you're only reading agenda driven lies designed to appeal to the ignorant masses. Though, I must say I'm a cup half full kinda guy, that may explain why I don't like the negative vibe they give off.

Time will tell I guess.

You've probably all already seen this; the launch of HMS Dauntless:


http://www.baesystems.com/dauntless/index.htm
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
mark22w said:
Some good news with HMS Clyde, the new Falkland Islands patrol vessel - Merlin capable - to be commissioned 30-JAN. Sign of things to come perhaps.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.7883


..and HMS Cumberland under preparation for years of service to come – just hope its with the RN!

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.7850
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Wow nice big OPVH for the Falklands... just shame it only carries a 30mm main gun (the Peacocks had 76/62 for example).

cheers
 
Tasman

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
contedicavour said:
Wow nice big OPVH for the Falklands... just shame it only carries a 30mm main gun (the Peacocks had 76/62 for example).

cheers
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At least that's more than the old Endurance had when the Falkland's war broke out! She carried only 2 x 20mm and had to rely on her Wasp helos to provide firepower.

I agree that a 76mm would be more appropriate, as also is the case with HMS Clyde's new Kiwi cousins. HMS Clyde, IMO, has far more reason in fact to be upgunned than the NZ OPVs, which are unlikely to face a threat from other fighting ships. The case of Endurance when the Falklands War broke out illustrates the problems of a lightly armed vessel that suddenly finds itself in a warzone far from home. I imagine that the RN could have provided Endurance with a reasonable armament if they had had the time and a dockyard available but, as is often the case, a vessel has to fight with what it has, not what it could have.

Cheers
 
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mark22w

New Member
Tasman said:
At least that's more than the old Endurance had when the Falkland's war broke out! She carried only 2 x 20mm and had to rely on her Wasp helos to provide firepower.

I agree that a 76mm would be more appropriate, as also is the case with HMS Clyde's new Kiwi cousins. HMS Clyde, IMO, has far more reason in fact to be upgunned than the NZ OPVs, which are unlikely to face a threat from other fighting ships. The case of Endurance when the Falklands War broke out illustrates the problems of a lightly armed vessel that suddenly finds itself in a warzone far from home. I imagine that the RN could have provided Endurance with a reasonable armament if they had had the time and a dockyard available but, as is often the case, a vessel has to fight with what it has, not what it could have.

Cheers
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Yup, the former HMS Endurance was not really intended to face more than penguins as an antarctic survey vessel, its current replacement - again Endurance - at least has two Lnyx helos and Royal Marine detachment...

HMS Clyde is a step up from the former Falkland Islands 'castle' class patrol vessels, but still need that visiting destroyer / frigate down south. The aim to keep her on station until 2012 is interesting, and with less crew than the Castles 38 rather than 51 far more cost effective...

76mm main gun? Preferable but a helo, RIB and RM detachment is useful. Pretty sure the helo will be an occasional visitor in reality but time will tell.
 
O

overlander

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #218
future strenght of the royal navy

in my opinion and being very optimistic with so low interest of british politicians in defence this could be the R.N. strenght by 2025.

1 carrier
15 destroyers and frigates
3 ballistic nuclear submarines
4-5 nuclear attack submarines
1 LPD albion class
2 LSD bay class
maybe 1 LPH or LHD ???
10 MCM vessels
5-6 main patrol ships
and i repeat being very optimistic, i believe the strenght could be less ships, i hope before 2025 they don,t decide to scrap the navy totally.
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
overlander said:
in my opinion and being very optimistic with so low interest of british politicians in defence this could be the R.N. strenght by 2025.

1 carrier
15 destroyers and frigates
3 ballistic nuclear submarines
4-5 nuclear attack submarines
1 LPD albion class
2 LSD bay class
maybe 1 LPH or LHD ???
10 MCM vessels
5-6 main patrol ships
and i repeat being very optimistic, i believe the strenght could be less ships, i hope before 2025 they don,t decide to scrap the navy totally.
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You're being a bit pessimistic ;) there will be a 2nd carrier IMHO though it could be jointly owned by France and the UK (a bit messy to operate both Rafale and F35B but not impossible). That idea has been brought forward by one of the 2 leading presidential candidates in France.
I doubt the RN will go below 20 DDG+FFG (6 Horizon and 14 Type 23 replacements), though 3 SSBNs and 6 SSNs could indeed be enough.

cheers
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
overlander said:
in my opinion and being very optimistic with so low interest of british politicians in defence this could be the R.N. strenght by 2025.
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You are being ridiculously pessimistic. It will be two carriers or none, because one would cost more than half of two and be only temporarily available. The beancounters would object to that and block funding for one very expensive ship.

There is no reason for two Bays and one Albion to be scrapped or sold.

4-5 Astutes is not viable for a SSN force. 6 will be the absolute minimum - 7/8 is still probable.

15 escorts is not sufficient nor likely either, given we will have at least 6 Darings (steel has been cut on Duncan) - 7 & 8 still might be ordered.
 
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