The PLA airborne troops!

A

Aussie Digger

Guest
every Aust INF Bn has its own recon PL. These guys are good,and supply the Bns sniper element. They would work in conjunction with SASR. Designation of targets and op,s are SASR domain.
Every Aus REGULAR infantry battalion has a recon platoon, there are a few reserve units that don't operate them, but that is a manning and skill set issue, not a choice.

The Sniper cells are embedded within the recon pl...
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Every Aus REGULAR infantry battalion has a recon platoon, there are a few reserve units that don't operate them, but that is a manning and skill set issue, not a choice.

The Sniper cells are embedded within the recon pl...
Ussally,the sniper cell is part of the Recon pl, however,the snipers them selves often come under BHQ. There was a time when snipers were part of BHQ....not a bad idea really....
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Ussally,the sniper cell is part of the Recon pl, however,the snipers them selves often come under BHQ. There was a time when snipers were part of BHQ....not a bad idea really....
I vaguely recall a story in one of the Army magazines (2 years ago?) about snipers which suggested the new sniper rifles would be issued to platoons. Did the story mean to say recon platoons, or are there snipers in line platoons also?
 

Whiskyjack

Honorary Moderator / Defense Professional / Analys
Verified Defense Pro
I vaguely recall a story in one of the Army magazines (2 years ago?) about snipers which suggested the new sniper rifles would be issued to platoons. Did the story mean to say recon platoons, or are there snipers in line platoons also?

I know the Royal Marines and maybe other British army units have a sniper/sharpshooter attached to the platoon HQ. I think it is actually a specialist caliber as well .338?
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
I know the Royal Marines and maybe other British army units have a sniper/sharpshooter attached to the platoon HQ. I think it is actually a specialist caliber as well .338?
Yes, the article included discussion of .50cal rifles with anti-armour capability among others. It seems to me that his would not be a typical type of weapon recon troops would lug around.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I vaguely recall a story in one of the Army magazines (2 years ago?) about snipers which suggested the new sniper rifles would be issued to platoons. Did the story mean to say recon platoons, or are there snipers in line platoons also?
in days gone by, each rifle coy had a support pl, with 2x 81mm morters and a couple of sfmg,s. I have heard that it may be re-introduced with auto 40mm grenade launchers,snipers etc,and be very flexible and cross trained. Very good idea that will coy comd some very usefull tools. Not sure how the PLA work as far as embedded battalion support go,s ,and i dont know their structure (bn,coy,pl etc) but would be interested if anyone else could elaborate!
 

csubaicai

New Member
in days gone by, each rifle coy had a support pl, with 2x 81mm morters and a couple of sfmg,s. I have heard that it may be re-introduced with auto 40mm grenade launchers,snipers etc,and be very flexible and cross trained. Very good idea that will coy comd some very usefull tools. Not sure how the PLA work as far as embedded battalion support go,s ,and i dont know their structure (bn,coy,pl etc) but would be interested if anyone else could elaborate!

The Serial number of PLAAF airborne is No.15,who defeat US army and gained his honour in North Korea,1952.Here is some pictures:
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2005-05-16/1020487_202571696.htm
http://bbs.military.china.com/jsp/pub/staticFile/htmls/2006/9/1011/5374266_page0.html
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2005-12-06/1020487_839857091.htm
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2005-09-19/19909.htm
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2005-07-13/16651.htm
 

csubaicai

New Member
Come again... :confused: I don't consider 15:1 casualty rates a victory.
Come again?
15:1 is number from US,Many people doubt it is right or not.Anyway,In North Korea,PLA started from border between China and North Korea,and finally stoped at 38 line,right?I think now the most important job for US Army is to find a way out of Iraq!:)
 

Big-E

Banned Member
Come again?
15:1 is number from US,Many people doubt it is right or not.Anyway,In North Korea,PLA started from border between China and North Korea,and finally stoped at 38 line,right?I think now the most important job for US Army is to find a way out of Iraq!:)
Most of the PLA deaths were do to either starvation or lack of air cover early in the war. The Soviets just left PLAs forces to the mercy of .50 cals and Napalm. I think a proxy war fought on behalf of the Soviets that cost half a million Chinese lives for a stalemate is similar to what we will end up with in Iraq.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
I vaguely recall a story in one of the Army magazines (2 years ago?) about snipers which suggested the new sniper rifles would be issued to platoons. Did the story mean to say recon platoons, or are there snipers in line platoons also?
I think what you are referring to is the changes in structure of Australian infantry battalions under the Army 2012 concept. Under this structure each battalion will be reduced in size to 3 rifle companies, plus the existing support company (with possible changes in structure to the Mortar and DFSW platoons), admin company and BHQ.

The remaining rifle company's will then be expanded in size with each platoon retaining it's normal sections, but gaining an additional "maneuvre support team", of 2x fire teams of 4 soldiers each, with the teams equipped with a 40mm AGL (or a light cannon), plus Carl Gustav MRAAW's, MAG-58 GPMG's and a "Marksmans rifle", plus a support vehicle to carry the weapons and ammunition.

The vehicle is to be appropriately sized so as to be capable of being carried within an MRH-90 helicopter, indicating that a Polaris Quad bike or 6x6 wheeled bike, plus trailer is the type of capability being sought (similar to 4RAR/SASR styled vehicles).

The capabilities to be acquired for this project are to be tendered for under Land-40 Phase 2 and should provide a high level of firepower for each platoon.

Such teams will be capable of supporting their respective platoon individually or combining to support company level operations.

There are few details as yet about the training the soldiers will undertake to serve within the MST's, but most of the soldiers operating the "marksman's rifles" probably won't be Sniper qualified, but undertake some sort of "halfway" course.

The way Land-40 reads to me is that Army is keen for an SR-25 styled 7.62mm semi-auto "accurised" rifle, rather than a specialist sniper rifle, (like SR-98) but we'll have to wait and see...
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
Most of the PLA deaths were do to either starvation or lack of air cover early in the war. The Soviets just left PLAs forces to the mercy of .50 cals and Napalm. I think a proxy war fought on behalf of the Soviets that cost half a million Chinese lives for a stalemate is similar to what we will end up with in Iraq.
The 15th army back then was not the same as 15th airborne today, although its origin came from there. Compared with UN forces at the time, they were simply outgunned and had to make up with night manoevures and troop numbers. Today's 15th is no longer a regular GA formation and has been assigned to the airforce. Their role today is similar to 75th Rangers, but on a larger scale.

China suffered about 360,000 dead in the war, approximately 145,000 of those killed in action. The wounded figure is 780,000, out of those around 260,000 in combat. Of course, the figure given by Chinese government is much lower. Compared to American combat deaths, the exchange rate is about 4:1 to 5:1. This clearly demonstrated that despite smaller number, a well equipped and trained force with proper logistical support can perform much better.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
I think what you are referring to is the changes in structure of Australian infantry battalions under the Army 2012 concept. .
Nope, I dug out the issue...its the Australian Infantry Magazine for April 2004, page 19, article "Fading or flourishing - a consideration of the sniper's future".
The weapon under discussion was the AMR - Anti Material Rifle, 12.7mm.
The changes suggested on page 22 was that "a Sniper platoon of, at least, 26 men be raised in each Royal Australian Infantry Corps battalion." The platoon was to be organised into three sections of [severa] four-man teams that operates in pairs. The article also suggested using these as a combined brigade sniper company.

This should probably be moved to the ADF thread.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I think what you are referring to is the changes in structure of Australian infantry battalions under the Army 2012 concept. Under this structure each battalion will be reduced in size to 3 rifle companies, plus the existing support company (with possible changes in structure to the Mortar and DFSW platoons), admin company and BHQ.

The remaining rifle company's will then be expanded in size with each platoon retaining it's normal sections, but gaining an additional "maneuvre support team", of 2x fire teams of 4 soldiers each, with the teams equipped with a 40mm AGL (or a light cannon), plus Carl Gustav MRAAW's, MAG-58 GPMG's and a "Marksmans rifle", plus a support vehicle to carry the weapons and ammunition.

The vehicle is to be appropriately sized so as to be capable of being carried within an MRH-90 helicopter, indicating that a Polaris Quad bike or 6x6 wheeled bike, plus trailer is the type of capability being sought (similar to 4RAR/SASR styled vehicles).

The capabilities to be acquired for this project are to be tendered for under Land-40 Phase 2 and should provide a high level of firepower for each platoon.

Such teams will be capable of supporting their respective platoon individually or combining to support company level operations.

There are few details as yet about the training the soldiers will undertake to serve within the MST's, but most of the soldiers operating the "marksman's rifles" probably won't be Sniper qualified, but undertake some sort of "halfway" course.

The way Land-40 reads to me is that Army is keen for an SR-25 styled 7.62mm semi-auto "accurised" rifle, rather than a specialist sniper rifle, (like SR-98) but we'll have to wait and see...

@ x 4 man teams can not operate all the wpns that you have nominated. I come from the old "heavy bellies" of DFSW pl back ground, and anti armour wpns are ALWAYS used in pairs. 4 guys operateing 2 x Carl Gustavs can carry how many rounds?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
can we steer this back to the thread topic plse - or open up a new Oz related one. :rolleyes:
 

csubaicai

New Member
Admin: Text Deleted.

As informational as your original post was - it was off topic. Please refer to the prev request to stay on topic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top