About the only current ATGM that could conceivably be able to support this is Spike-LR/ER (due to having an autonomous seeker with loopback target selection over fibre-optic cable). Could actually maybe even be realized in a software solution at the FCS of the carrier, which would need to be upgraded to handle multiple input, plus "target balancing" of sorts.
The Arjun Tank
- Thread starter Jade
- Start date
Was this the same article with the fire and forget missiles with the launcher seated in the bustle rack.
To fire simultaneously, no, to have a capability to lock on, track and prioritize targets,yes. Match this up with a recoil assist auto loader then you could have the capability to launch a maingun round every 3 to 4 seconds.
I am not really sure. I read that article a while back! I remember that it dre inspiration from Naval Missiles though.
Chrom, you are right about source of targetting data, instead of mutiple channel FCS, it's the datalinks which aid in simultaneous attack.
Now couple that with a FCS capable of hitting targets not in LOS and smart guided rounds..
4-6 missiles. complete networking, a gun capable of hitting tagets out of line of sight and smart guided rounds..a single tank capable of taking out 6-8 targets simultaneously. I will trade these for 155 mm gun..
Hehe imagination is free..
In the end the technology shouldn't be that far away.
Get a Longbow radar into the air and send it's target data to the network.
The Hellfire carrier could be everything and could stand everywhere as long as it is in range.
In the end the AH-64D is the logical result of your idea just on another platform.
Get a platform with a decent target aquisition capability (Longbow radar), a network to other platforms, a fire-and-forget ATGM (Hellfire) and the ability to fire up to 16 missiles in close order.
From this point of view it is perfectly possible to put the same into a ground vehicle. The only problems being that the radar doesn't have the same performance due to it being grounded and the fact that there are no more red hordes to fight making development of such a monster tank killer unnecessary.
Get a Longbow radar into the air and send it's target data to the network.
The Hellfire carrier could be everything and could stand everywhere as long as it is in range.
In the end the AH-64D is the logical result of your idea just on another platform.
Get a platform with a decent target aquisition capability (Longbow radar), a network to other platforms, a fire-and-forget ATGM (Hellfire) and the ability to fire up to 16 missiles in close order.
From this point of view it is perfectly possible to put the same into a ground vehicle. The only problems being that the radar doesn't have the same performance due to it being grounded and the fact that there are no more red hordes to fight making development of such a monster tank killer unnecessary.
Have you ever wondered why is it that everyone wants to place missile launchers on tanks, it will not work properly when used in conjuction with a main gun. Lets just get it over with and start using ETC technologies.
why do people forget the M60 and M551 and the horrible Shillelagh missile:shudder when they think that mounting missiles and main gun on an MBT.
although the Russians have to get a working sytem to fire from the main gun. though a externally mounted missile would survive the back blast from the main gun. at the moment its unchivable at the moment
Then again, there's AMX-13 with SS11/SS12....
Then again, theres IMI's LAHAT...
DRDO tries to ram Arjun tanks down Army throat
12 Jul 2008, 0051 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit,TNN
NEW DELHI: A war has erupted in the Indian defence establishment over the indigenous Arjun main-battle tank (MBT), once again. After Army made it quite clear it did not want more than the 124 Arjuns already ordered, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has fired a retaliatory salvo.
Seeking the government's intervention to ensure "indigenous efforts" are "appropriately rewarded", DRDO says Army should order a minimum of 500 Arjuns to stabilise production lines and pave the way for the development of a "futuristic" MBT.
"We are working on the development of a futuristic Mark-II MBT with suitable technological upgrades, which can be introduced later after the completion of production of at least 500 Arjuns of the present version," said a DRDO official.
Nothing doing, responds Army. "Our requirement for 1,781 MBTs to replace the older T-55 and T-72 tanks will be met through the progressive induction of 1,657 Russian-origin T-90S tanks and 124 Arjuns," said a senior officer.
After getting 310 T-90S tanks for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract, India signed a Rs 4,900 crore deal with Russia last November to import another 347 T-90S tanks. The Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, in turn, has also begun the licensed manufacture of another 1,000 T-90S tanks.
Moreover, the ongoing upgradation of 692 T-72 tanks to "combat-improved Ajeya standards", of which 415 have already been delivered, will add more punch to India's armoured might.
"So, we have already catered for adequate numbers. We are now looking 20 years ahead and want DRDO to come up with a next-generation MBT. We are not against indigenous efforts...let DRDO make something better," said the officer.
DRDO, however, is crying foul over moves to demand "higher performance" from the 58.5-tonne Arjuns, which are "superior" to even the 46.5-tonne T-90s in some respects like its "excellent weight-to-power ratio and very accurate firepower on the move".
With 64 of the 124 Arjuns already ready for delivery, DRDO holds that the Army is shying away from "comparative trials" between them and the T-90S tanks, which interestingly enough have been christened "Bhishma".
While acknowledging that the Arjun project was sanctioned as far back as in 1974 at a cost of Rs 15.50 crore, which zoomed up to Rs 300 crore by 1995, DRDO says one of the main reasons for the delay was the frequently changing "qualitative requirements" of the Army.
"Development of tanks of similar capabilities in a foreign country will cost 10 times the development cost we have incurred in India. The present cost of one Arjun is Rs 16.80 crore, while it is around Rs 12 crore for the T-90S. Arjun's cost compares favourably with contemporary western MBTs, which cost Rs 17 crore to Rs 24 crore," said a DRDO official.
Admitting there are "teething problems in productionization", DRDO says the process will "mature and stabilize" only after 200 to 300 tanks have actually been produced. "Consequently, we need patronage in terms of more orders for Arjuns. Since it's an indigenous tank, it will be all the more easier to bring upgrades and use it as a viable platform for futuristic development," he said.
12 Jul 2008, 0051 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit,TNN
NEW DELHI: A war has erupted in the Indian defence establishment over the indigenous Arjun main-battle tank (MBT), once again. After Army made it quite clear it did not want more than the 124 Arjuns already ordered, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has fired a retaliatory salvo.
Seeking the government's intervention to ensure "indigenous efforts" are "appropriately rewarded", DRDO says Army should order a minimum of 500 Arjuns to stabilise production lines and pave the way for the development of a "futuristic" MBT.
"We are working on the development of a futuristic Mark-II MBT with suitable technological upgrades, which can be introduced later after the completion of production of at least 500 Arjuns of the present version," said a DRDO official.
Nothing doing, responds Army. "Our requirement for 1,781 MBTs to replace the older T-55 and T-72 tanks will be met through the progressive induction of 1,657 Russian-origin T-90S tanks and 124 Arjuns," said a senior officer.
After getting 310 T-90S tanks for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract, India signed a Rs 4,900 crore deal with Russia last November to import another 347 T-90S tanks. The Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, in turn, has also begun the licensed manufacture of another 1,000 T-90S tanks.
Moreover, the ongoing upgradation of 692 T-72 tanks to "combat-improved Ajeya standards", of which 415 have already been delivered, will add more punch to India's armoured might.
"So, we have already catered for adequate numbers. We are now looking 20 years ahead and want DRDO to come up with a next-generation MBT. We are not against indigenous efforts...let DRDO make something better," said the officer.
DRDO, however, is crying foul over moves to demand "higher performance" from the 58.5-tonne Arjuns, which are "superior" to even the 46.5-tonne T-90s in some respects like its "excellent weight-to-power ratio and very accurate firepower on the move".
With 64 of the 124 Arjuns already ready for delivery, DRDO holds that the Army is shying away from "comparative trials" between them and the T-90S tanks, which interestingly enough have been christened "Bhishma".
While acknowledging that the Arjun project was sanctioned as far back as in 1974 at a cost of Rs 15.50 crore, which zoomed up to Rs 300 crore by 1995, DRDO says one of the main reasons for the delay was the frequently changing "qualitative requirements" of the Army.
"Development of tanks of similar capabilities in a foreign country will cost 10 times the development cost we have incurred in India. The present cost of one Arjun is Rs 16.80 crore, while it is around Rs 12 crore for the T-90S. Arjun's cost compares favourably with contemporary western MBTs, which cost Rs 17 crore to Rs 24 crore," said a DRDO official.
Admitting there are "teething problems in productionization", DRDO says the process will "mature and stabilize" only after 200 to 300 tanks have actually been produced. "Consequently, we need patronage in terms of more orders for Arjuns. Since it's an indigenous tank, it will be all the more easier to bring upgrades and use it as a viable platform for futuristic development," he said.
Russians have done a pretty good job pioneering guided projectiles that fire from the main gun, now we have seen promising results coming out of Israel with the Lahat and the U.S with the X Rod or XM111, but one should note that this type of projectile is not meant to be a primary armor defeating projectile, they are pretty much used for the occasional long range snipe. Going with a external launcher on a vehicle that is meant to be your main primary enemy contact weapons platform just doesnt make sense due to that type of environment, *OFFENSIVE MANUEVER*.
And this vehicle brought success, it was pretty much used for a quick fix for better capability in a defensive posture due to gun performance that it was lacking on the later generation of tanks, current generation mainguns can be used with good performance in achieving a tank kill.
SS11 was fitted mainly for long range AT capability (i.e. TD role), not necessarily because gun performance was poor. After all, most users used only gun versions and the vehicle itself was upgunned from a high-velocity 75 mm gun (CN 75-50, a development of the German 7.5cm KwK 42 L 70 used on the PzKw V Panther) through 90mm to 105 mm. There was a version with HOT as well (prototype at least).
hey guys,check out this interesting article,i wonder how many modern tanks have black boxes installed in them.
here is the link and the article:
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...tank-engine-black-box-installed_10070965.html
New Delhi, July 13 (IANS) The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has installed a black box-like instrument in the indigenous main battle tank (MBT) Arjun, under development for nearly 36 years, following attempts to “sabotage” its engine. The instrument was installed after the Indian Army termed the winter trial of the Arjun tank a “failure”. Attempts to sabotage the trials of the Arjun tank have failed after the black box was installed, said authorities.
“The German company Renk AG supplying the engines for the Arjun tank stumbled upon the tinkering with its engines after a complaint from the Indian Army that the tank’s gear box failed during its winter trials in Pokhran and Mahajan field range,” a DRDO official told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.
“Following this we have installed an instrument similar to the data recorder or black box in aircraft that would record all the information related to the engines,” he added.
The army had told a key parliamentary panel earlier this month that the Arjun tank failed to deliver at the just-concluded winter trials. The army said that many improvements had to be carried out before it was satisfied with the tank.
After the complaint, engineers from the German company were summoned to have a look at the tank while a special team was sent to Germany.
“Army officials were curious to know about the new instrument, which was installed before the summer trials, which has been successful,” the official said.
Minister of State for Defence (Production) Rao Inderjit Singh has also hinted at a conspiracy to “sabotage” the Arjun tank in April.
“The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined. The engines fitted in the tanks were German and were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight,” Singh had said, talking about the reported failures of the tank.
However, the army has denied the allegations of sabotage.
The startling revelation from the DRDO has come even as the Indian Army seems to have sounded the death knell for the Arjun tanks, saying it would purchase no more than the 124 it had signed a contract for.
Fourteen Arjun tanks were handed over to the Indian Army for user trials last year but were returned to the manufacturer - the Combat Vehicles Development Establishment - with a list of defects.
These included a deficient fire control system, inaccuracy of its guns, low speeds in tactical areas - principally the desert - and the tank’s inability to operate in temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius.
The army had laid down its qualitative requirement (QR) for the Arjun in 1972. In 1982, it was announced that the prototype was ready for field trials. However, the tank was publicly unveiled for the first time only in 1995.
Arjun was originally meant to be a 40-tonne tank with a 105 mm gun. It has now grown to a 50-tonne tank with a 120 mm gun.
The tank was to supplement and eventually replace the Soviet-era T-72 MBT that was first inducted in the early 1980s.
However, delays in the Arjun project, and Pakistan’s decision to purchase the T-80 from Ukraine, prompted India to order 310 T-90s, an upgraded version of the T-72, in 2001.
Of these, 186 were assembled from kits at the HVF at Avadi. An agreement was also signed for the licensed production of another 1,000 T-90s.
With the development of the Arjun delayed further, India last year signed a fresh contract with Russia to buy another 330 T-90s.
here is the link and the article:
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...tank-engine-black-box-installed_10070965.html
New Delhi, July 13 (IANS) The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has installed a black box-like instrument in the indigenous main battle tank (MBT) Arjun, under development for nearly 36 years, following attempts to “sabotage” its engine. The instrument was installed after the Indian Army termed the winter trial of the Arjun tank a “failure”. Attempts to sabotage the trials of the Arjun tank have failed after the black box was installed, said authorities.
“The German company Renk AG supplying the engines for the Arjun tank stumbled upon the tinkering with its engines after a complaint from the Indian Army that the tank’s gear box failed during its winter trials in Pokhran and Mahajan field range,” a DRDO official told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.
“Following this we have installed an instrument similar to the data recorder or black box in aircraft that would record all the information related to the engines,” he added.
The army had told a key parliamentary panel earlier this month that the Arjun tank failed to deliver at the just-concluded winter trials. The army said that many improvements had to be carried out before it was satisfied with the tank.
After the complaint, engineers from the German company were summoned to have a look at the tank while a special team was sent to Germany.
“Army officials were curious to know about the new instrument, which was installed before the summer trials, which has been successful,” the official said.
Minister of State for Defence (Production) Rao Inderjit Singh has also hinted at a conspiracy to “sabotage” the Arjun tank in April.
“The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined. The engines fitted in the tanks were German and were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight,” Singh had said, talking about the reported failures of the tank.
However, the army has denied the allegations of sabotage.
The startling revelation from the DRDO has come even as the Indian Army seems to have sounded the death knell for the Arjun tanks, saying it would purchase no more than the 124 it had signed a contract for.
Fourteen Arjun tanks were handed over to the Indian Army for user trials last year but were returned to the manufacturer - the Combat Vehicles Development Establishment - with a list of defects.
These included a deficient fire control system, inaccuracy of its guns, low speeds in tactical areas - principally the desert - and the tank’s inability to operate in temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius.
The army had laid down its qualitative requirement (QR) for the Arjun in 1972. In 1982, it was announced that the prototype was ready for field trials. However, the tank was publicly unveiled for the first time only in 1995.
Arjun was originally meant to be a 40-tonne tank with a 105 mm gun. It has now grown to a 50-tonne tank with a 120 mm gun.
The tank was to supplement and eventually replace the Soviet-era T-72 MBT that was first inducted in the early 1980s.
However, delays in the Arjun project, and Pakistan’s decision to purchase the T-80 from Ukraine, prompted India to order 310 T-90s, an upgraded version of the T-72, in 2001.
Of these, 186 were assembled from kits at the HVF at Avadi. An agreement was also signed for the licensed production of another 1,000 T-90s.
With the development of the Arjun delayed further, India last year signed a fresh contract with Russia to buy another 330 T-90s.
Gun performance did play a major factor for the French army, during the time SS11`s were being added to AMX 13 *light* tanks Russia was already in the process of introducing T-64 and T-72 series tanks. Also France never did adopt a 105mm gun to the AMX13, production pretty much ended for them with a 90mm gun, reasons being not only due to dismal gun performace on later generation armor at extended engagement ranges but also due to armor protection. This is not to say that this vehicle has out lived its purpose on some of the future battlefields like jungle or heavy wooded environments, still would be a good ambush vehicle where long ranges is not a factor.
For testing purposes most likely everyone uses them, matter of fact most newer automobiles have this type of set up already installed.
Are they coming from Russia, and is the primary purpose for FCS overheating or crew comfort.BTW there is report that IA is ordering Airconditioners for it's T-90s.
Russia, and FCS.
What happened to the cooling blankets from Israel, are they not working.