T-90 Tank

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I do not understand why you think that this is embarassing, Russia is quite capable of bring equipment in theater that can match opponent firepower, meaning that they can adjust accordingly. :)
The tanks are old, at this point mechanically unreliable (large numbers broke down during the war) and simply inferior in combat capabilities when compared to even Georgian T-72Bs. It's embarassing that our country can't afford to replace a tank will soon turn 50 years old.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The tanks are old, at this point mechanically unreliable (large numbers broke down during the war) and simply inferior in combat capabilities when compared to even Georgian T-72Bs. It's embarassing that our country can't afford to replace a tank will soon turn 50 years old.
Russia has plenty of tanks sitting in storage at different military districts, and I did not hear of large amounts of Russian T-62s breaking down. Lets face it, Russian airpower for the most part prevented Georgian armor formations from even moving thus the reason for so many abandoned vehicles.
 

DefConGuru

New Member
Russia has plenty of tanks sitting in storage at different military districts, and I did not hear of large amounts of Russian T-62s breaking down. Lets face it, Russian airpower for the most part prevented Georgian armor formations from even moving thus the reason for so many abandoned vehicles.
But still, it was hardly a fair fight it didn't prove much against Russia other than it can quickly mobilize and concert its forces to achieve large scale results. They also didn't use any of their newer fighters or any T-90's on the ground (they don't want foreign speculators judging true Russian military capabilities) so they gave Georgia a small yet overwhelming taste.
 

DefConGuru

New Member
The tanks are old, at this point mechanically unreliable (large numbers broke down during the war) and simply inferior in combat capabilities when compared to even Georgian T-72Bs. It's embarassing that our country can't afford to replace a tank will soon turn 50 years old.
You are overly critical of a minor issue imo. Russia could have easily sent in T-90s but knew that it had to be measured in response and also keep its true capabilities tight lipped against what looked like tactical prodding from the West.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
But still, it was hardly a fair fight it didn't prove much against Russia other than it can quickly mobilize and concert its forces to achieve large scale results. They also didn't use any of their newer fighters or any T-90's on the ground (they don't want foreign speculators judging true Russian military capabilities) so they gave Georgia a small yet overwhelming taste.
There is no such thing as a fair fight, the rule is to win and to win quickly.:D
Agree with you, newer equipment was not needed in this small scale conflict, they could of used T-55s with the same outcome. Also alot of those Russian forces were already not that far away, so I would still question Russian capability for a large scale mobilization if they ever were to tangle with a larger opponent.
 

DefConGuru

New Member
There is no such thing as a fair fight, the rule is to win and to win quickly.:D
Agree with you, newer equipment was not needed in this small scale conflict, they could of used T-55s with the same outcome. Also alot of those Russian forces were already not that far away, so I would still question Russian capability for a large scale mobilization if they ever were to tangle with a larger opponent.
In fact, I'll go a step further. I'll be so bold as to say Russia didn't even need any tanks. I agree with the distance as well as previous planning had a lot to do with their rapid mobilization, as well as daily intelligence from Ossetian and Abkhazian seperatists. Now Russia can largely evade tangling with a larger opponent because in actuality, it did compose itself during the conflict and did show discipline and did manage to scare a bunch of nations back into a cold war mentality. This is a type of situation that literally feeds the Kremlin.
 

tatra

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
The Russian army plans to phase out the T72's and T80's with the new tank that will go into service after 2010. The T90's will remain.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080710/113700252.html
Looked at this article and find this:

"At present, there are over 25,000 MBTs in service with the Russian Ground Forces. However, relatively modern T-80 and T-90 models account for only 30 percent of the current fleet of tanks and even these tanks require constant upgrades to incorporate modern weaponry, protection and electronics systems."

and this

"The T-90 MBT will be the backbone of the armored units until 2025. T-72's and T-80's will not be modernized and will be eventually replaced by new-generation tanks, which will start entering service after 2010," Sergei Mayev, head of the Federal Service for Defense Contracts (Rosoboronzakaz) told a news conference. "

to be key statements.

If T-80 and T-90 constitute only 30% of the current force of 25k tanks and are to be the backbone of the armored force until 2025, that means that the force will be drastically cut, without (m)any newer tanks entering service.

"The new-generation MBT, which still does not have a designation, will feature better firepower, maneuverability, electronics and armor protection than the T-90 MBT. "

If it doesn't have a designation, then its not serious IMHO. (in other words: what T-95????)

:nutkick
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If T-80 and T-90 constitute only 30% of the current force of 25k tanks and are to be the backbone of the armored force until 2025, that means that the force will be drastically cut, without (m)any newer tanks entering service.
Either that or large scale serial production of the T-90 is planned. By the way the T-80 was not mentioned as the backbone of the tank fleet until 2025. Only the T-90. So the statement obivously implies large scale purchases, as there are only ~200-300 T-90 tanks in service. Finally the number 25000 is exaggerated, as it includes storage bases and reserve formations. Realistically the numbers are close to ~10 000 tanks out of which 2-3% are T-90 tanks.

If it doesn't have a designation, then its not serious IMHO. (in other words: what T-95????)

:nutkick
In Russia designation would mean that it's passed stated trials iirc. Given that 1) T-90A production is going ahead 2) The new tank will enter production not next year but at the earliest, 2010, we can safely assume that it's not a finished product. That doesn't mean it's not serious, and that doesn't mean we won't see it in frontline units 3-4 year from now (albeit initially in tiny numbers).
 

nevidimka

New Member
Looked at this article and find this:

"At present, there are over 25,000 MBTs in service with the Russian Ground Forces. However, relatively modern T-80 and T-90 models account for only 30 percent of the current fleet of tanks and even these tanks require constant upgrades to incorporate modern weaponry, protection and electronics systems."

and this

"The T-90 MBT will be the backbone of the armored units until 2025. T-72's and T-80's will not be modernized and will be eventually replaced by new-generation tanks, which will start entering service after 2010," Sergei Mayev, head of the Federal Service for Defense Contracts (Rosoboronzakaz) told a news conference. "

to be key statements.

If T-80 and T-90 constitute only 30% of the current force of 25k tanks and are to be the backbone of the armored force until 2025, that means that the force will be drastically cut, without (m)any newer tanks entering service.

"The new-generation MBT, which still does not have a designation, will feature better firepower, maneuverability, electronics and armor protection than the T-90 MBT. "

If it doesn't have a designation, then its not serious IMHO. (in other words: what T-95????)

:nutkick

Those are two different statement, and what I belive they say are currently T90/80's constitute 30% of the total. Also the Russia decided on making the T90 the backbone of the army.
So that means reducing non T90/80's and drastically increasing new T90's purchases to make it the new backbone of the Army. And in regards to the new gen tank, it is the so called unofficial T95, and there is really no immediate need for it until after 2010. So there is no loss in ability by not having those T95's inducted tomorrow.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hmm strange. At first I thought they were because they're missing the characteristic side plates of the T-90. Look at link and look at the front part of the chassis. There are three plates there. On the photo they arent there. But after zooming in on those tanks in the photo I noticed they had Shtora. Strange. Maybe they are T-90. Maybe they're part of the T-90 baseline variant, produced during the 90s.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/T-90S.htm
 

extern

New Member
Those are T-72 tanks retrofitted with K5 as far as I can tell.
No, you're wrong. It's T-90A for 120%. Look on the welded turrets. Only T-90A has welded turret between all Russian tank fleet. That picture is from the range near N-Novgorod, so it cannot be neither Tamanskaya nor Kantemirovskaya div., 3rd MRD is the most probably. The lateral ERA blocks were removed, since they are no needed for excersises. BTW: there are place for 4 such blocks from both side.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Strange. From what I know Kantemirovskaya hasn't received any T-90A yet. But 3rd MRD has? Very strange. To the best of my knowledge only 124 T-90A were produced up until this year, with 62 more coming this year. It would make no sense to distribute them among different divisions. All the tanks put together including ones produced this year is only enough to re-arm a single MRD, or half of a tank div.
 

CyberSpec

New Member
Strange. From what I know Kantemirovskaya hasn't received any T-90A yet. But 3rd MRD has? Very strange.
The 4th Kantemirovskaja Division has T-80U which are meant to stay in service, so they probably won't be getting T-90A.

To the best of my knowledge only 124 T-90A were produced up until this year, with 62 more coming this year. It would make no sense to distribute them among different divisions. All the tanks put together including ones produced this year is only enough to re-arm a single MRD, or half of a tank div.
There was an announcement that about 90 per year would be introduced into service, but I'm not sure whether that's suppose to be from this year or 2009 onwards
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
62 are to be inducted this year from what I know. 93 (31 is a battallion) might be next year. The Kantemirskaya 4th Gds Tank is meant to be re-armed with T-90A by 2015 from what Chrom cited for us earlier.

Another question, will we know whether the tanks due this year arrived? I mean will we get a an article or two in some newspapers about new T-90A tanks arriving in such and such divisions? Or will it just go by quietly? Or has it already happened?
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Hey Extern,

It is the 15th of September, where oh where is the T-95, so much for Russian tank day.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Nothing. Just like I thought :( No new tank for us this year. Extern did you at least get some nice photos of the old tanks by any chance?
 
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