T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour
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Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that they couldn't have been used better... 
and not just in terms of casualties but also in terms of their effectiveness.
Смотри, то что потеряли мало танков хорошо, но это не значит что это не могло быть сделано лучше, и не только в плане потерь но и в плане эффективности танковой поддержки.
and not just in terms of casualties but also in terms of their effectiveness.Смотри, то что потеряли мало танков хорошо, но это не значит что это не могло быть сделано лучше, и не только в плане потерь но и в плане эффективности танковой поддержки.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Did I not see also counter-thermal imaging Nakidka developed in Russia?My point was that the lack of thermals is indeed a shortcoming that we're trying to address right now.
By the way in English the word кампания is not company. It's campaign. Company means рота or компания depending on the context. But not campaign.
There are lots of thermal imaging countermeasures, including simple flare firing ahead of the formation during tactical manoeuvring. WP airburst will do the same job if fired right. Any thermite or magnesium incendiary munitions will blind the thermal imaging. Igniting flares on the vehicle hull will produce a much larger image, and make gunnery less precise when vehicles are moving close together, such as in a road march. Their irregularity will also likely confuse attacking aircraft because from the air such a column will resemble a movement of refugees that usually result in conflict zones, and the pilots will loath to make attacks at night on misidentified thermal signatures acquisition alone.
its not a panacea...
Why would they need them, they have access to any type of thermal imaging device that they feel would fit their requirements. Most likely took the tanks as war souveniers and to give someone a extra drop kick to the balls.I just saw this
Hmmm, it seems to me the older Soviet designs don't lack thermals. The new Russian Army lacks a conflict where thermal technology would be required
They now have 44 of the Georgian upgraded T-72s with Elbit thermal systems installed (I think) to add to the T-90s
I guess if they like them, they can get more from Israel
Also you do realize that Thales company has set up shop in Russia to manufacture thermals for T-90 series.
FutureTank
Banned Member
I agree eckherl, but the words used in Russian media are not that these 44 tanks were taken as souvenirs, but "accepted for service" by the Russian Army, except for the three that were seen at Kubinka, which is of course a part of the Russian MoD.
Of course Thales is there, as are SAGEM and of course Peleng, but still, 44 tanks is 44 tanks.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Here is one report http://www.newizv.ru/lenta/96114/, however, does the Russian MD have to say they are going to accept them for service in the media? If they had no use for them they woudl have destroyed them like some other captured vehicles in the locations where they were found. Ammunition was also taken to Russia. Some captured vehicles will be relegated to museums such as the Czech artillery pieces. I think the three (?) Georgian T-72s delivered to Kubinka will be enough to evaluate them by the Russian Armoured troops specialists.
What would you do with the remaining 41?
Here they are http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6381/019cefc351b7b2xlqq6.jpg, but maybe they will go to Abkhazia or South Ossetia? So far the only report is that they were taken by Russian forces.
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FutureTank
Banned Member
That's true. I had asked them to notify me, but they forgot
What do you think happened to them?
It seems logical that they will be used for testing and including tactical trials against other Russian tanks to see how effective the mods on them are compared to say T-90. That after they have changed all the equipment inscriptions from Georgian to Russian. Probably nothing will happen to them yet because Kubinka is still working out all the technology changes etc.
From another forum http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=358577&sid=1dff3cdc63852730402bc52203170049the tanks, at least probably those in Kubinka, are being examined at the 38th Military-research Institute of Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation in the Moscow area.
"38-й военно-исследовательский институт МО РФ под Москвой. Грузинские модернизированные танки Т-72, на которые были установлены израильские прицелы, приборы опознавания свой-чужой и польские мониторы"
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If they press them into any type of service then it may be a hand off to the folks that they gave assistance to in the conflict, lets face it thermal imaging devices do burn out and if you do not have replacement components then it isn`t nothing more than a piece of junk, Russia has access to some of the best thermal technology that is currently available for T series tanks and they have nothing to gain. Same would hold true for the armor protection value of this vehicle, the ERA is not that spectacular and keep in mind that it has a cast turret design dating back to the cold war era, T-80UD and T-90 series offers better protection values. I think what Russia may be inclined to better research from their war booty would be the tactical communication and GPS equipment that was on the vehicles.
Also didn`t alot of the Russian units that entered the fight just come off of a large training exercise that was being conducted just on the other side of the border, could explain some of the equipment issues due to the vehicles not coming from war stocks. Either way Russia still has plenty of T-80 and late series T-72s that are in storage, I actually have photos that are a year old showing Russian tankers busting caps on T-80 BV`s that are in mint condition instead of their T-80U`s that would be used in case of a need for conflict. So you are correct inregards to some of the premier Russian units when you state that they have two sets of vehicles at their disposal.
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I will have to dig them out of my folders but will post them when I find them. Here is a photo of a T-90 without ERA on the turret, someone asked for it awhile ago.
Misguided Fool
New Member
Is that tank normal? Looks like the front's been destroyed?
And there's no skirts ... Are the skirts made out of ERA? Or has the tank just been stripped down? :shudder
Tank was actually used to test the effects of mine damage to the suspension and hull.Is that tank normal? Looks like the front's been destroyed?
And there's no skirts ... Are the skirts made out of ERA? Or has the tank just been stripped down? :shudder
Misguided Fool
New Member
Without ERA it looks suspiciously alike the Type 85 II (chinese). I'm pretty sure the Chinese have copied every other tank they've made ... is the Type 85 a copy of the T90?
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